I have what may be a silly question - The big book in chapter 3 lays out what it says are ways that people are alcoholics, and without getting into a lengthy explanation of my condition, I was wondering if the suggestion to have a drink and try to stop is actually a worthwhile test - on pp31-31 is suggests this, and I only mention it because 1) two physicians have said they cannot make a diagnosis of alcoholism for me and 2) It would really really help me to stop anguishing over what to do... it has been very hard getting into the groove of AA and for some reason suspect that I may be trying to force myself to address certain symptoms in the wrong way. I have taken medication for obsessive compulsivity for many years and this has something to do with it... any advice would really be of great value - thanks a ton !
I've been told most people who are not alcoholic don't spend time wondering if they are. For me, finding out I am an alcoholic was and is a blessing. I don't have to experiment or test that theory anymore. I can just continue to surrender every day, focus on staying spiritually fit, connect to my fellowship, and work the steps.
Welcome to MIP! I wish you all the very best. :)
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
Welcome to the MIP board. Only you can decide. If you are here you probably already know, you just can get honest with yourself, the anguishing will continue until you can.
If the below statement is not true for you, then you are probably not alcoholic.
pg 44 We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
We had a meeting the other night and a gentleman mentioned that he really doesn't hear the "if you don't think you're an alcoholic why don't you go try some controlled drinking, with the awareness we've given you"
He continued to share that he himself did try this, he drank a beer one day and that was it. So he thought the next day he would do it again, and he did he drank one beer. Looong story short, by the 7th day of his "controlled drinking" he had chased his girlfriend with a knife in their apartment, was arrested and wound up in a recovery house and he hasn't left AA since.
Granted you may not have been in a hole like that.
I haven't been diagnosed alcoholic by a doctor, but by the grace of my higher power who I call God, I know and accept that I am.
I don't have any horror stories, but I know that I have gone out to places or events and said "oh I'll just have one drink", and somewhere along the line that one inevitably turns to 10...15..so on and so forth. When I moved in with my parents I also went through a lot of "moderating" my drinking so as not to raise concern, or hiding bottles wherever I thought was a good place. Haha I also found that hiding bottles when you're drunk, the spots you think are good really aren't that great.
Okay enough rambling. For me, seeing and listening and talking to the people in the rooms, the old timers that have been around so long really give me hope and faith that this program works, I can see it and I can hear it. I've had my doubts at the beginning but I, personally, wouldn't want to try some "controlled drinking", I've had enough shame and guilt from it that I truly don't want to give it a try.
Sooo I will apologize if this was rambly and not helpful haha but it helped me to get it out!
Thanks, but what I'm wondering is, if one were to pass either or both of the tests on page 31 and 44 in the big book, would that be evidence supporting a non alcoholic person?
How many times people have said to us: "I can take it or leave it alone. Why can't he?" "Why don't you drink like a gentleman or quit?" "That fellow can't handle his liquor." "Why don't you try beer and wine?" "Lay off the hard stuff." "His will power must be weak." "He could stop if he wanted to." "She's such a sweet girl, I should think he'd stop for her sake." "The doctor told him that if he ever drank again it would kill him, but there he is all lit up again."
Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.
1)Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.
2)Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
3)But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees.
I am a real alcoholic, type 3 above. I tried the controlled drinking experiment many times and failed. I wasn't really interested in stopping but the one time I did, after a stay in the laughing academy, I felt so miserable and did infact sink into a deep depression - I just ceased to function. My last experiment was in early Feb 1980 where I set out to have a few beers and be home by 6. I got home by 6 alright, just four days later! At this point I was able to fully concede to my inner mostself, without any reservation, that I was alcoholic. That was the first step in recovery.
If you still have reservations, go drink some more. Seriously, we don't chase drunks. If you reach a position where you sincerely want to stop for good and can't do it on your own, we will do all we can to help. But we can't give you that desire.
Kevin asked " I was wondering if the suggestion to have a drink and try to stop is actually a worthwhile test "
Welcome Keven, I think its a great test. The problem with it is this. If I were to make my mind up and take the test after about the second drink< I would know its a good test but its just not a good day for it. as soon as I put alcohol in me it would never be a good day for it. I think these are the best questions for diagnoses, and its the ones i use with all the new guys I work with.
Chapter 4
WE AGNOSTICS
In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic. (#1) If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, (#2) or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
If you are a real alcoholic, ( one that our book describes ) you dont really have a drinking problem. Drinking is your solution that stopped working. what you have is as the book calls it, an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. Alcoholism is what it is called, and it is a disease that demands attention and it will get it one way or the other. Today I treat my alcoholism with AA and other spiritual endeavors that relate to the 12 steps principals in one way or another. I hope you leave the debating team and join us. And as for your O.C.D that is one of the symptoms of alcoholism along with intense seriousness, anxiety, depression, anger and an overall discontent with anything and everything. Alcoholism creates these symptoms off the chart and meds wont fix it. Not telling you to go off your meds, just giving you a different perspective which is what you asked for. why dont you give AA a try ( real try) for 90 days, which means make as many meeting as you can at least one a day, get a Big Book, and find some one to take you though the steps before those 90 days are up and see what happens. Arent you curious to see what happens
-- Edited by billyjack on Tuesday 8th of January 2013 01:29:31 PM
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
I have been going to meetings for almost 90 days and have a sponsor I am working with... I appreciate the cut and paste replies from chapters in the big book but what i had asked for was your opinions. Once you're in AA every problem you encounter looks like something caused by alcoholism but there are many symptoms actually caused by other things... i think you need to be careful before prescribing a blanket solution before you understand the individual situation is all im saying...
. I appreciate the cut and paste replies from chapters in the big book but what i had asked for was your opinions. Once you're in AA every problem you encounter looks like something caused by alcoholism but there are many symptoms actually caused by other things... i think you need to be careful before prescribing a blanket solution before you understand the individual situation is all im saying...
Not much to understand, you haven't said two words about it. Hard to hit an invisible target. Why don't you tell us a little about your conundrums with this?
I don't think there's a conclusive test to diagnose alcoholism. Only you can decide. Various tests that exist may help you make your mind up, or they may not.
I don't think any of the posts above prescribe a blanket solution. They are all about helping the individual to diagnose the problem for himself. If, after considering all the facts, you reach the conclusion that you are one of us, then AA has a very specific solution (for you) for a very specific problem - the disease of alcoholism.
I remember when I first came into the rooms my sponsor told me that people come to AA for all sorts of reasons. Some to deal with other afflictions, some because they are lonely, some for free therapy, and some are actually alcoholics wanting to recover. So it is quite possible someone with some other condition might for a time think they were alcoholic and come to AA, and maybe at some point they will discover the true nature of their illness and go to the right place for treatment.
Equally, you will probably meet quite a number of people who were alcoholic, but in the course of their journey were diagnosed and treated for some other illness, when alcoholism was the real problem. A lot of that is based in denial. At one point it was far more acceptable to me to be a certified nutter than an alcoholic and in pursuing this objective I was often less than honest with my doctor.
As I posted earlier, I have my experience with controlled drinking. Although much of my experience does not "exactly" match the Big book, the book says its descriptions should identify the alcoholic "roughly", and when I look at myself honestly, the hat fits pretty well. As for my opinions, well my opinions didn't get a million alcoholics sober so I doubt if they would help you very much.
If drinking orange juice gives you heart burn, you stop drinking orange juice, right?
If you are lactose intolerant, you stop drinking milk.
If you are allergic to tomatoes, you don't eat tomatoes.
If your alcohol consumption makes you go to Doctors, a random internet forum, AA meetings, get a big book and try to split hairs, you might have a problem, no?
