I'm in the same boat, sister. Something a guy said at a meeting the other day rang true. He said 'My life hadn't become unmanageable. I had a job, a house, a family. I had become unmanageable. When I was drunk I was really unmanageable'. This helped me see it a little differently.
My thing is that I've always tried to quit. For like a month or sometimes even two it's fine. But I always, always try again, thinking that it'll be different this time. And I always end up in another blackout, waking up feeling like I hate myself more than anything in the world and having to apologize to my husband.
The other thing I think of is that my drinking ruined my last relationship. It could easily happen again with my marriage when I'm drinking. The fact that it hasn't yet is pure dumb chance. The circumstances I've been in when I've been drinking. Do I really want to wait around for something terrible to happen? Because I'm playing with fire.
I hope we can support each other. Hugs to you.
-- Edited by RubyTues on Thursday 13th of December 2012 01:46:16 AM
Hi Chaya, I got sober at age 29. At that point I had been steadily employed, albeit I missed a couple days a month due to hangovers. I never drank in the morning or at work, although I had a beer at lunch ocassionally. I didn't have any medical problems, never crashed a car, but I did get charged with a couple DUIs that I beat in court because I refused the breath test. I was having blackouts ocassionally and that scared me. I probably could've continued to drink and "get away with it" for another 10 years, but after my x-wife and I separated for the last time, I knew that I was losing my designated driver on the weekends and would have no reason to stay home putting me in a car drinking. I knew it would be a mater of time before I got convicted of a DUI and loss of license, which would keep me from working or make it very difficult, causing a downward spiral that I didn't want to experience. I'd been attending AA meetings for 2 years at that point, going in and out, not getting more than 2 months sober, surrounded by denial.
I finally made a decision to put all of my effort into getting sober, making it my "Primary purpose", and to do all of those things that I had heard "suggestions" others did to get and stay sober. I shifted my obseession to drink, to an obsession to stay sober. It worked and a couple of decades later life is better than ever expected. Met wife #2 at 3.5 years sober and we've been together for 19 years and built an amazing life together. I've been self employed since 6 months sober, that's a huge gift of freedom and prosperity that most people can't imagine. On top of that I'm very happy, content, and at peace with myself, my family, and the world around me. I'm shocked at what a "homebody" I've become and also enjoy all the traveling that I do. It's dynamic, evolving and wonderful. It truly does keep getting better every year. I'm so glad that I got sober relatively young and have enjoyed a couple decades of great health to pursue the traveling, physical hobbies, and building a mountain myself.
I can't imaging waking up with hangovers at age 52 and dealing with the physical and medical issues drinking would bring. On top of that, I was diagnosed, at 2 years sober with a liver disease, that I still have. It's been A-symptomatic all these years but I'd have been dead a couple of years if I was still drinking and smoking cigarettes. Quite the guarantee that I should stay sober. I thank HP for that. Get sober while you're ahead. Life passes you by quickly, this can either be an advantage or disadvantage depending on whether you're sober or not.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 13th of December 2012 08:16:40 AM
Yup. I'm back here again. Starting my first step and having doubts. Maybe I just made a big deal out of things. I don't know. Yes. I do know. I know I am an alcoholic but I have been lucky enough to catch it early. Like, someone in the early stages of cancer still has cancer. I hate when my head does this. I imagine I'm not the only one, right? Are there others on here with high bottoms? Will you share with me? I can't always relate with others' stories and it's hard for me. I feel different. I start thinking that I don't have a problem and I don't belong.
Yup I am pretty sure you are not the only one :) It is important to work your Steps with a sponsor,I know for me self-sponsorship never worked.We are told in the 12/12 (pg.68)that only Step one,where WE make our 100% admission that we were powerless over alcohol can be practiced with perfection.(TOTAL SURRENDER AND ACCEPTANCE)It is intergral to the process of our begining to heal.Chapter 3 in the Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)More About Alcoholism(pg.30 in 3rd edition)also a good guideline for your questioning mind.Many of us tossed around the same kind of thoughts you are having,(including me in denial for decades)keeping us in the grip long enough for the Pain to finally and mercifully outweigh the pleasure and come to total emotional acceptance of utter defeat and complete surrender.Our illness is baffling to the point where it tells us we are not ill..IT IS A LIAR! Stay close to your support group at this period or follow the guidelines in the Big Book in Chapter3.I will lift you up in prayer,it is a blessing you are sharing honestly how you feel,its how we get help.Keep coming back,let us know how its going..you can find literature and info here if you don't already have it...Peace
One of my sponsors had me "find myself" in the big book and underline everything I could relate to. It was nearly the whole book! Early on I thought my story was on page 279 (4th edition)...as time went by I learned to laugh at myself, but it was the best I could do at the time. My head lies to me...a LOT! It took about 6 months for the news to travel from my heart to my head and I just knew. At 23 years I still have those thoughts occasionally and I laugh and tell my head to move on please! My head is very entertaining! Good luck, girlfriend!
p.s...only you can decide if you are an alcoholic or not.
-- Edited by Picaposie on Thursday 13th of December 2012 09:31:15 AM
Hey Chaya:) I guess some may consider me a 'high bottom' . I dunno, I always worked, but a lot of that was sheer luck, coupled with great manipulation skills, and just happening to have bosses who were kind- hearted. I didn't lose my apartment or many material possessions... But then again my standards were pretty low, and my landlord is an angel. In my own case, I was a great liar, and people let a lot of things slide. I DO know that if I ever have doubts about me being a real alcoholic, all I have to do is read the first couple of chapters of the Big Book... That is me. It's like somebody opened up my soul and mind and put into words what I could not. Also, I have journals from years past that clearly track the progression and insanity of my active alcoholism. Another thing that tells me I'm indeed a true, textbook case is the struggles emotionally, physically, socially and spiritually since becoming sober. I think, behave, and feel like only an alcoholic does. If i wasnt, i couldve just put the drink down and gone about my life with no recovery. I may not have wound up in jail or homeless like many of the guys I hear at meetings... But I was simply barely existing. I was utterly spiritually and emotionally bankrupt. I think many women have this experience. I've heard it countless times at meetings. In my own experience, I was realistically only about a couple of weeks away from losing ( or giving up) my jobs, my place to live, etc. and my life, because I was dangerously suicidal. Others could have looked at me and said I still 'had it together' to some degree, but honestly I did not at all. I tried desperately to give this impression by dressing well and all that crap but it was a very paper thin facade. I hope you can relate a bit:) Ive never questioned whether I'm an alcoholic since reading the Book and going to meetings. I mightve not been that guy who just got out of prison for robbing somebody, but I understand that I have the same 'illness' or spiritual malady that got him there.. Because I can understand and relate to his story. I dunno, this helps me to never forget
I wear a seat belt just in case. You could do this just in case too... but.... as an alcoholic, that would seem like a tremendously huge thing to give up just in case. A non - alcoholic (like my husband) can give it up just in case. It's that easy... he can take it or leave it without obsessing about it at all like we do. It would be like me being told soda is bad for me, and giving it up. I have done that with no obsession at all. It's bad for me, so that's that. Beer however... bigger sugar content - totally different thought process.
My husband has been to enough open AA speaker meetings, and identified enough with the early stages, that he's just not going to take any chances, and doesn't want our kids to ever see him drink (proactive parenting for genetically predisposed children... he's awesome). That's enough reason for him to just not do it. That's how normies think.
Do you think you should keep drinking because good things will come of it? If so... I'd like to hear what... and what bad things might come of it for you and your little one. Maybe getting that down in black and white will help. What does your sponsor suggest you do about this predicament?
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I'm afraid my 'bottom' was pretty low ... and I can't express to you enough, the importance of staying in the program and staying sober, else you'll find yourself soon getting depressed over the 'what ifs' ... (I think flipper just posted a thread on that subject) ...
If you think you're wasting time here in AA, then your disease is taking over your thinking for you ... try not to allow that to happen, else you will be dealing with a NEW bottom that you'll wish you had had the sense to avoid ... At least that's what happened to me ... Yes, I thought I was too smart to allow all the things to happen to me that I had heard others talk about, but my alcoholic reasoning took over and led me through many of those 'what ifs' that I never really had to go though IF I had only listened to reasoning in the beginning ... Go ahead if you must, try some controlled drinking for a few days ... see if you have the power to control your intake ... I'm here to tell you I did, and it was absolutely painful to have two or three drinks and stop for the night ... that last about two or three days and then you know what happened next ... I said the hell with it and drink like I wanted to ... King Alcohol won again, and he will every time we invite him in ...
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I think that way sometimes. I never lost my job, never had a DUI, never went to rehab.
Okay...but the reality: I drank to get hammered almost daily at the end. I had dry heaves most mornings. I passed out all the time. I never drank normally ever. I got kicked out of bars. I embarrassed and humiliated myself all over town. I tripped and hurt myself and was coming up with bruises and injuries I didn't remember the next day AND it was just getting worse.
High bottom or low bottom? I dunno but I wanted to die when I came in. It felt pretty dang low.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Chaya I can relate. I've had that debate in my head many times over the years. The thing is: non alcholics don't have this debate. They just don't think of it. It's not important to them. Remembering this has released me from the agony of denial my diesase wants me to be in. Our diesase lies to us. It wants us to believe it so it has the power over us. It's great that you brought the question here. So you can get solid E, S & H and tell the diesase thinking where to go.
I've been thinking about this a lot. Maybe when we are told not to make a big deal out of things when we are younger it's harder to seek help when we are older. I'm sure a lot of us have come from homes where you don't really admit problems but rather pretend everything is ok.
Hi Chaya, I did what was suggested in the Big Book, page 31. Being uncertain in the face of overwhelming evidence:
"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition."
I guess it was a dangerous thing to do, but it was worth it. Without step 1 in the bag, there is always a reason why the other steps need not be taken. For the real alcoholic, even if he manages to stay dry, staying in that first step mode, always doubting, always fighting, is a living hell.
(((((Chaya)))))...That you are exploring the posibility of being alcoholic is more than many do...many do not reach exploration..."the 23 questions test" and many don't need it. I didn't need it. I wasn't alcoholic when I got into recovery. My then wife was; alcoholic and drug addict. I don't know how many of my drunks she ruined by getting drunker faster than I which left me the pissed off baby sitter. She was my major excuse to socially lit up and then I didn't have her for that excuse before I met her and I wasn't a drunk then either. I rarely got intoxicated and I did turn sickly green, the effect of alcohol ladened urine being deposited under my skin. My body and metabolism system is off planet and that is what it is for me. I stopped drinking to rescue my spouse when she got into AA. When she asked me if I thought she was alcoholic I said no and she went off on another run. My drinking partner was gone, lost and I didn't want to drink alone all over again so after I drank all that was left I stopped and contemplated suicide but then found the Family Groups still available for me. For the second time (I completely destroyed the first one) with my HP I re-entered the room of Al-Anon withdrawing from my spouse and the alcohol. I never questioned my own alcoholism because a family practice for generations isn't alcoholism...it is culture and I was stepping away from my culture. In Al-Anon I got farther and farther away from active drinking in time and my life continued to grow into sobriety. I even went to college on the subject and emerged a therapist in a large multilevel modality hospital. I had 9 years of serenity alcohol free before; again with the guideance of my HP I was led to do the questionaire. I had just finished completing a newcomers evaluation which would lead him into inpatient start when my HP asked me "What qualifies him for inpatient treatment and not you?" I had never heard that question from my HP before and so I wanted to find out myself and did the questionaire. One of the things that came up which I had never remembered in my drinking career (which means I missed a buncha other stuff too) was that I had 3 overdoses on alcohol in my past and never knew I was reaching that level of intoxification. I'm chemically tollerant...I drop before I get drunk. Any how that led me to take that assessment to the adult section of the hospital to have it analyzed (anonymously) and the results that came back notified me that the person the assessment belonged to needed to be in inpatient care immediately or the next time they drank they died. I have never known when my next drink was coming and so today I don't want to know and attended to my alcoholism recovery as designed and led by other sober alcoholics.
My story isn't told to keep you out questioning as to whether you are or not. I'm sure you're not green in color (that disappeared 5 years after I quit drinking) and you are hyper curious. Start with this...Alcohol is a mind and mood altering intoxicant (chemical poison) and you don't mind using it on yourself. Go on from there.
Ok. I totally needed to hear all of that. As to the question about sharing this with my sponsor...I'm afraid that when I do my step 1 with her she's going to think I'm a total idiot for coming in the program. I'm afraid I'll be told I don't belong here either. I'm sure mine isn't going to be as hopeless and unmanageable as others. I guess that's my disease telling me I don't belong, my sponsor will reject me, and that it's ok to go ahead and drink. I don't want to have a couple drinks. I don't want to drink everyday, but when I do I want to get plastered. To me there really is no other way. Who wants to sit and have a drink with dinner? Do ppl really do that? Why? That doesn't sound like fun. I stopped going to my ACA meeting because I started to feel like the parents in the story were ME!!! The unpredictability that I experienced with my mother I was subjecting my little one to. Ok. I know I'm an alcoholic. I know it. The program has already started working for me in so many ways. I have a friend in recovery who never saw me drink but would tell me how much I thought like an alcoholic. Come to think of it, I bet my higher power was trying to reach out to me then. This friend called me 2 or 3 times when I was out drinking. He never called me on Friday nights but on these instances he did. Ok. I know nothing good will come out of drinking. Probably just more fun at the time, then guilt and shame to follow. So, these are some of the examples I've come up with for step one. Breaking up with a boyfriend bc I wanted to party one night and I knew he'd get in the way, being stuck at a restaurant with my little one bc I didn't want to drive under the influence, blacking out and going home with someone I didn't know, doing things with men I didn't really want to do, lying to my husband to go out and drink, lying some more to stay out later, putting water in the gin bottle before putting it away, drinking before work a few times, drinking during work a few times, riding in cars/motorcycles with ppl under the influence, driving myself under the influence, making a total idiot out of myself in public, trying to create situations to drink like that again, wanting to leave my daughter to run off with some low life to drink and use, spending time with lower companions who didn't care what I did. Those are a few. I was afraid they really weren't bad enough though. I keep telling myself that ppl just drink like this and then they stop. Ok. So I can stop. I can stop for a while without AA I'm sure. I also know I'll be miserable. I've fallen in love with this program. It makes me feel so much better, more connected, closer to being the person I want to be in this world. I remember the night I decided to start drinking. I dropped out of law school, disappointed my parents, and I said f it. Who cares what I do now? I'm going to drink. I went straight to liquor. Brought my own bottle to parties and clubs to have enough. Didn't mess around with beer. Waste of time. I wanted to get drunk. When I drink I want to be drunk. I want to be out of my mind. I want to detach. How can I keep going back to not being an alcoholic? Because I am one. Because the disease is tricking me. I don't want to go back out. I don't want to see what it will bring me. At the very least, it will bring me the misery I have seen in my parents, ever functioning but sick. I'll stick around. AND, I'm going to share this with my sponsor.
PG 44, In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
Everybody has a story, there will always be those who might judge high and low bottoms, I think we should not. My bottom was low enough for me and no person on the outside will ever know exactly how I felt. People assume I had a high bottom because I was young (24), but continuing to lower (my) standards due to drinking was becoming increasingly painful.
They told me to identify not compare. If you are alcoholic, the elevator only goes down, if you are lucky you don't get off on the bottom floor or die a drunk.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
You know what? The risk does not outweigh the benefit. It just doesn't. The what if thread I just read really helped me in that I asked myself what if I continue to drink? What harm may I cause my little one? I'm not willing to risk that.
Chaya, I too have tossed the "am I really?" idea around in my head so many times since I first went into the rooms.
I had a long day at work one day and was on my way home passing those places I would stop at every day, and I was thinking...maybe I haven't hit bottom, and I started thinking of the peoples stories I have heard..thinking about the differences. I still have a job, a car, a place to live. I've never been hospitalized! (Why would I think that though, its not like I want to drink myself into the hospital!) And then it dawned on me....I HAVE lost a job (a great one) due to alcohol, I HAVE wrecked a car so many times to the point I had to junk it (because of alcohol), I even had a place of my own..until I lost it BECAUSE of alcohol. I've had other consequences, that i dealt with...with alcohol. But I guess God has been secretly working in my life because I was lucky enough to get back into an old job, lucky enough to afford another car, lucky enough to have loving parents that didn't just throw me out in the street (which was a close call). I've been lucky enough to be given a second chance! And I was still trying to screw it up!
What got me into the rooms for the first time, was a blurry night with an entire bottle of vodka (and some), which I drank alone, followed by my amazing, loving mother packing a suitcase and heading out of her own home, away from me and away from her husband of almost 30 years, saying she needed to get away to at least pretend I wasn't killing myself.
Maybe my bottom isn't very low, but this wasn't the first time I was hurting that woman, by far, and I couldn't stand the idea of her giving up 30 years, or giving up on me.
So maybe all of that wasn't necessaryto type haha, but I realized this thought of "am I really an alcoholic?", is the disease, the alcohol trying to lure me back so it CAN take everything away from me, so it really can give me a rock hard bottom. But that's what I found in the rooms, and I guess through God (still working on that) is that I DON'T have to let it!!
So sorry for the rambling, my head is full of so many things, and for once they're not all bad.
Oh wow, Brokenrecord, I really needed to hear that. The 'worst' of my drinking was five years ago when I lost a number of those big life things, including a relationship. I was given a second chance and don't want to screw everything up again. So, when I think well, I still have my relationship, job, place to live, etc., there was a time when I didn't! Why would I roll the dice with that?
Last night I went to an incredible speaker meeting. As he proceeded to tell his story I would say to him in my head, "Stop now and you'll still be ok." So, Chaya, stop now and it'll be ok.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've done that; second guess my own alcoholism I mean. That's why I suffered so many relapses over the years. I couldn't get the first step in its entirety.
I never bottomed out like most people, so I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic, right? Not from where I'm standing. Quantities never really mattered and either did the hangovers: For me, it all came down to the aftermath. What happened prior, during and after I drank should be compelling enough. That's when I knew there was a problem.
I'm always struck by the amount of people who question their own drinking and whether they are truly alcoholic or not. Admittedly, this is a query I frequently posed to myself. I'd have to say there are far more compelling arguments in favor than in protest, even though the debate still rages on. I guess the alcoholic mind never really gives up.
So what I try to do instead is disengage entirely from that circle of thought, worry less about the labeling, and focus simply on consequences - to remember certain instances where drinking caused me regret. I keep these examples fresh in my mind just in case I start questioning my resolve once again. It's so incredibly powerful to quickly scan through that roadmap of horror, line by line in plain english, and conclude that I would literally do anything not to repeat those mistakes again. I hope you do as well. Onward.
~God Bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Monday 17th of December 2012 03:52:56 AM
After every small stint of sobriety I would say to myself- "Maybe I have just been making a big fuss about nothing. I've just been too dramatic about all this."- That internal dialogue started when I was about 23 yrs old after a couple arrests and hospitalizations. I'm 30 yrs old now, 7 rehabs later and i have 86 days sober now. That shit youre telling yourself is classic bargaining/denial. Recovery and sobriety of the educational variety is possible. It says so in the BB. High-bottom and low-bottom drunks get and stay sober the same way: take direction. Just passing on what I'm being told at the moment :)
As my ex-sponsor used to say to me- "What lies are you telling yourself today?"
