Perhaps Im nitpicking, however when a newcomer or perhaps someone coming back refers themselves as sober I sort of shutter as it took me a lot of time to start to get sober. After a good # of 24 hours I still have my dry times. A sponsor once told me that being dry is acting and reacting the same as when I was drinking. I am nitpicking and cant change others. Thanks.
Sobriety has been defined as freedom from alcohol, so I suppose you could say that someone who is not drinking but still obsessing about alcohol is not free and therefore dry, not sober. I'm not sure if that would apply to the newcomer because they seem to be blessed with a period of grace, maybe only a week or two, where they are open and willing to do what it takes to get sober. If they completely give themselves to the program, the obsession stays away, they get through the steps and recover.
However, some may squander the period of grace (perhaps they just don't see) and the obsession returns. Maybe they stay dry, but are they free? There seem to be a few of these that have been around a while and they seem to have made a conscious decision NOT to do the work.
I think being "dry" is still huge progress over being an active drunk. Sobriety is a process and often for those of us in the program, labeling someone else "dry" instead of sober is taken as hugely insulting. I know I have my "dry drunk" moments. I have witnessed other AA members having them too....more times than I care to share. I guess my point is that it only does me good to label my own "dry drunks" and it took some time for me to even understand what those periods were. Newcomers naturally associate sobriety with only not drinking/using. It's a process like I said, and they learn what sober means if they are blessed enough to put together some sobriety time. I can't fault them for what they have never experienced. Similarly, if I am blessed with more days sober, I will probably look back and shake my head at how much I thought I knew (but really didn't) at this moment.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Well, as a newcomer, I'm not sure if I would 'technically' fall into the dry or sober catagory.. I'm sure either or both depending on the day, or moment. I actually put a lot of pressure on myself to try my best to not be or become a dry drunk. I'm working the steps with a sponser and hitting at least a meeting a day... And have learned a ton on a moment by moment basis over the course of the past 6 months. I'm not sure if I would be categorized as 'dry' or 'sober'... But to be honest I never thought that anyone in the program would have an issue with me stating that I'm sober. I'm sorry, but I'm honestly confused as to why this would bother anyone? This is the first time I've heard anyone make mention of there being a timeframe involved in claiming oneself to be sober.. Is this common amongst people with long term sobriety?
"We could discuss the interpretation of the words sober and dry all day long. If you are in AA trying to work the program and grow emotionally and spiritually you are sober in my book."
Right on in my way of thinking also! This topic is in my opinion almost a waste of time as most wont change what it means to them. I thought about it because as is common several people from different meetings went out several times each in the last few weeks and each time when returning, fortunately, referred to themselves as sober the next day. I have periods of being dry, weather being angry, resentful, insecure, paranoid etc. Unfortunately it took many years of meetings and work to recognize these moments and act upon them. Im still looking for the switch to shut them off completly, though when Im looking up at the grass roots theyll be at last eliminated!
-- Edited by visch1 on Wednesday 5th of December 2012 06:47:01 AM
I'm sorry, but I'm honestly confused as to why this would bother anyone? This is the first time I've heard anyone make mention of there being a timeframe involved in claiming oneself to be sober.. Is this common amongst people with long term sobriety?
To answer the above, I have never known many people in AA having a problem with new people saying they are sober. We could discuss the interpritaion of the words sober and dry all day long. If you are in AA trying to work the program and grow emotionally and spiritually you are sober in my book.
We can all certainly look back at the first few months and realize that we still had a lot of alcoholic personality trendancies that we still need to recover from.
More is always revealed. I try not to judge too much and just help where I can.
It seems like the people who struggle the most with emotional sobriety tend to be most grateful when the miracle does occur.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
In my work setting (narcotic treatment) instead of dry or sober the difference is commonly referred to by the patients and treatment team as being sober and being in recovery. The folks who are clean without program are called sober and those actively working on their addiction are labeled as being in recovery. It's interesting to hear about the different distinctions that are made. To me it doesn't matter how anybody labels themself. If they are being grandiose in their self-assessment of progress it is still only them who can figure that out. I don't know what to call myself. Well, really I'm not even concerned. I'm more interested in getting through each day with my sanity in tact. That's hard enough for without wondering what to call myself. I'll just stick with Chaya.
I worry about myself and work my own program. What others choose to call themselves, dry, sober, recovering, recovered, whatever.. is none of my business.
I worry about myself and work my own program. What others choose to call themselves, dry, sober, recovering, recovered, whatever.. is none of my business.
Right on Chris. No opinion on outside issues
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I have some casual friends in AA that are chronic relapsers. They go out for brief relapses and then come back spouting AA lines and sharing how "grateful" they are within a day. It totally baffles me. I don't understand that and if I think about it too much, I can get really judging. I guess it seems threatening to me that someone can go out and come back so quick and act like it was no big deal and that they are now totally on track. I needed to feel 100 percent defeated, dejected, and hopeless to start out. I also needed to feel lost, scared, and in a humbled state for quite some time in early sobriety (I still need the humble part I know). It would seem a detriment to me towards staying sober if you can go "Oh, I relapsed. Thanks to my HP I'm back and sober now and so grateful for life." Um....what? That's scary cuz it doesn't tell me anything about what they learned, what cause the relapse, how can I use their ESH to avoid relapse...PLUS, I don't understand it so I don't know what to say to them either so I just say "keep coming back." It's like I want to see them scared, crying, and hurt so I can feel like they are in a better spot to not relapse and do this to themselves again. But then when I get to thinking that, I KNOW the issue is mine. Gotta let them find their own way and what do I really know?
It would seem they are likely glossing over their relapses and that is what is contributing to the repeated pattern. Dunno. It's not me, it doesn't have to be me. It's frustrating sometimes and I want to shake them and yell "Recover for real Dang it!!!!!" but like others said, not my business, not in my control, and I got enough issues and problems of my own.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
We are often asked how we dare refer to ourselves as recoverED alcoholics. The degree of resistance and even anger that this phrase elicits is both alarming and amusing. This strident and oftentimes emotional reaction may come from an experience of a fear-based fellowship - it does not come from anything found in the program. Unfortunately, the feeling of being threatened by the good news, by the light, tends to limit our experience of this amazing spiritual adventure. We have even been told that this was the wrong message. On the contrary, this IS the AA message because it is THE message of the Big Book.
On page 45, the Problem is defined as a "lack of power". The main object of this book is to ".....enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem." If we follow the planned program of action as outlined in pages 45 through 85, we arrive at perhaps the greatest promise of them all: "Sanity will have returned....the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us." At this juncture of the Process, lack of power moves from WAS our problem to IS no longer our problem and we have recoverED from alcoholism by tapping into an "unsuspected inner resource" through the vehicle of the STEPS.
The theme of the Big Book is permanent recovery. It simply cannot be misconstrued. But don't take our word for it. Here are just a few of the places where the word "recoverED" is used:
Title Page:¾The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from alcoholism
XIII: line 4 ¾ To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.
XV: line 12 ¾ In that brief space.....membership is far above 150,000 recovered alcoholics.
XXIII: line 22 ¾ This man and over one hundred others appear to have recovered.
17: line 3 ¾ Nearly all have recovered. They have solved the drink problem.
20: line 6 ¾ ...we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body.
29: line 3 ¾ Further on, clear cut directions are given showing how we recovered.
44: line 25 ¾ If a mere code of morals...were sufficient...many of us would have recovered long ago.
90: line 23 ¾ If he says yes....he should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered.
113: line 8 ¾ ...thousands of men...have recovered.
132: line 30 ¾ We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others.
133: line 14 ¾ We, who have recovered ... are miracles of mental health.
165: line 2 ¾ Personal Stories. How Forty Three Alcoholics Recovered From Their Malady
RecoverED does not mean that our physical allergy to alcohol has disappeared. We are and always
will be alcoholic. We will forever be powerless over the second drink. It simply means that "as long as
we keep in fit spiritual condition" we will "react sanely and normally" and "We [will] feel as though we
had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected." RecoverED does not mean we have
been cured.
RecoverED means that we have been given a gift. We have been given a daily reprieve contingent on
the maintenance of our spiritual condition." This is very , very good news.
This is the news that helps us to learn how to LIVE OUT LOUD.
This is the news that begins our transformation from children of the night to children of the light.
"I am a RECOVERING alcoholic" is spiritual pride in the guise of humility. This guy proclaiming this knows better than the big Book!
Perhaps Im nitpicking, however when a newcomer or perhaps someone coming back refers themselves as sober I sort of shutter as it took me a lot of time to start to get sober. After a good # of 24 hours I still have my dry times. A sponsor once told me that being dry is acting and reacting the same as when I was drinking. I am nitpicking and cant change others. Thanks.
Lets read this again. I at times shutter to me is not taking inventory and I do have a right to express an opinion. With so many newcomers coming around I feel that this relaxed attitude on being sober is a soft message that going out is OK because so many do it. I havent had /wanted a desire to drink in well over 30 years BUT the ism at times is still alive and unfortunately well which is the reason I still attend 5 or so meetings a week which helps keep me sort of sober.
