Dean, no offense, but maybe she loved having you for a child. Maybe she really loved motherhood and everything that entailed. Maybe a simple "I loved it to" would be an amazing gift for her, because she's trying to say it meant a lot to her. You not accepting it might be kind of selfish here considering her gestures are most likely the only way she knows or feels comfortable showing her love to you. Of course, I only know this snippet of the whole picture... and I'm mostly speaking about how I came to sanity and understanding with my parents through the steps.
They didn't/don't know how to show love to me as an adult either. They have really never known how to say I love you in words. They call when there is a tornado within 80 miles. They buy me things. They get mad at me when I'm grouchy/bitchy - or have been very much so in the past anyway. I always chose to interpret that as naggin, treating me like a child, not loving me for who I am etc. But who am I to tell them how to love me? Who am I to expect they know how to love me just how I want to be loved? Who am I to say they can only do it one way, and not look at what they feel under every action they take? Who am I to throw love back at someone? I am so lucky to have people who love me in my life. How dare I tell my mother how to love me! Today I understand that in living wrapped in Gods arms, and trying to do his will, I can look at them and accept the people they are, and the ways they know how to show love. It's not my place to teach them, refuse them or harbor resentments in His will. God is an example to me. I can only be an example to them.
Today, I can simply look at the pansies they may give me, that I haven't proclaimed love to since I was 7, and instead of saying "jeez mom, you know nothing about me, I haven't liked pansies since I was little... you don't know me at all!" Or something like it, and instead realize: Wow, she loves me so much, she still remembers that I loved these pansies when I was a girl. Wow, I should look at these pansies and try and remember what I loved so much about them... how do I feel today about them? Why? Maybe I could share that with my mother. Maybe I could say to her instead of some fluff and stomp... thank you for this gesture of love Mom, I love you too, and I have wonderful memories of your pansies on the front step of our farmhouse.
Maybe if I want my mother to respect and love the person I am today... I have to earn it... and I know how to do that with a HP today. Thanks MIP - Dean and Odat for teaching this to me.
On the flip side Odat, as much as I love motherhood, trying to force myself to feel grateful for my children while they are screaming and thrashing... doing what a perfectly normal 3 yr old should do... I get to the point where I can't hold up the act anymore! I can't force myself to be grateful every moment of every day. I have to allow myself to also be real, and part of that includes knowing I have a limit as to what I can handle and tolerate. I can feel ungrateful at times. I know that this lesson from Him is just what I need to really truly feel GRATEFUL when I am capable of it. If I never felt ungrateful, I couldn't feel gratitude. I need all of my feelings. Everything He gives me... He lets me feel... is exactly where/how it is suppose to be... so am I going to accept that or not is the real question for me.
-- Edited by justadrunk on Saturday 20th of October 2012 09:08:47 AM
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Pappy you were writing as I was. I have only come to say to my parents in the past couple of months since completing my steps, "I love you too... thanks for trying to help me" or whatever, however it presents... and I'll tell you what... it's like the walls come crashing down. The shoulders drop a little, the face isn't so tight on anyone... the eyes meet... the hugs and love are free for the first times EVER... and it's a slow beginning to what I hope is something miraculous.
Thank you Tasha ... you reminded me to add this ...
For years, my family unit just went on its way, doing daily tasks and staying to our own agenda ... calls were short and cordial for the most part ... then I lost Mom ... I was at the hospital and drunk ... I was drunk at her funeral ... I was drunk everyday, all day ... then I came back to AA and really worked the program this time ... After a year or two, when ending a call to my Dad, I add 'I love you Pop' at the end ... then when visiting him, I'd not leave until I told him face to face, 'I love you Pop' ... (He was never one to show any affection to me and my sister ever) ... and guess what? ... after a while of the new attitude from me, he started saying to me, 'I love you too, son' ... now my sister and I exchange the same feelings too ... we were never ever that close ... it's one of the miracles of the program ... to learn to love each other, both family and friends ... and it rubs off on others when we practice the principles daily ...
I have felt terrible remorse over being drunk as my Mom lay dying in a hospital bed ... but AA gave me a new life and I didn't have to experience that with my Dad ... My last words to him were 'it's good talking to you Pop, and I want you to know I love you' ... and he replied 'I love you too, son' ... A few days later on my way from Georgia to Tennessee to see him, he pasted before I could get there ...
Thank God for this program of real life ... and thank all of you here on this forum ...
Love you and God Bless,
Pappy
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Saturday 20th of October 2012 09:30:46 AM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Dean, no offense, but maybe she loved having you for a child. Maybe she really loved motherhood and everything that entailed. Maybe a simple "I loved it to" would be an amazing gift for her, because she's trying to say it meant a lot to her.
My mom got drunk on top of her prescription meds daily, passed out. Had two nervous breakdowns and was locked down in a mental institution. My mentally challenged brother had to be institutionalized at age 7 (I was 5) and we were separated. Dad was gone in the Navy and later divorced, lived across town but I hardly saw him. Both parents were alcoholics. It was a lonely scary time for me. That facts surrounding that aren't going to change, and I'm not going to lie about it. That's the short version. Want to hear the rest you can pm me.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 20th of October 2012 01:49:14 PM
During those first few moments of consciousness as you wake up in bed, listen carefully. Sometimes it is a lie, like being resentful at someone from yesterday. Other times it is a Truth that God is bringing you. If that's the case, observe it. Let it sink in. Carry it with you for the day - it needs to be noticed and acted upon.
I was brought such a Truth this morning. I have had it before and it's about immaturity. God is telling me I still have to take certain actions to grow up.
This morning I awakened with a thought in my mind that I would not have noticed much before, although I did notice it a little. God wanted me to pay much more attention to it. It was about a package I received in the mail the other day from my parents who went overseas. In the box were 2 gifts: a little porcelain doll and a small over-the-shoulder bag.
I was grateful for the gifts, but when I opened the box, my instincts said, "These are gifts for someone who's 12." I felt a little angry actually. But feeling guilty for my feelings, I buried them inside of me and tried to feel grateful and find a place in my small apartment for them to belong. They didn't look right anywhere. I set them aside on a shelf thinking about who I could give them to.
Ungrateful? Maybe. Maybe not. It is much, much more comfortable for my family if I remain a helpless child - the one who is pointed at as the "troubled" one. But that is not who God wants me to be - I know that for sure.
So God brought it up again in me this morning: "Pay attention to this. You are only my child. You belong to only Me."
Yeah I get a lot of that from my Mom. I think it's comforting for her to relate to me as "her little boy" even at 52 years old lol. I have to continuously set boundaries with her. She likes to talk about my childhood and it only makes me feel uncomfortable. Most of the gifts that I've received from her are childhood possessions of mine I left in her attic 30 something years ago. It used to make me somewhat angry, then I let her off the hook and attributed it to her financial situation. The bottom line is that my feelings belong to me. Once I own them, I'm empowered to keep others from affecting them. And yes I see my HP as my spiritual father, but I also am my own loving nurturing parent.
I love your posts Odat. I struggle with the opposite problem (although I have very little family left), "your can't be an alcoholic, your the good one". I was the one that never got into trouble, never went to jail, graduated college. But I am also a roaring alcoholic! But, as has been pointed out before, what matters is our relationship with God and what He thinks. As I struggle with sobriety; I kind of laugh to myself (in a disgusted way, not a funny way) because the program and God are always with me; it's strictly me screwing up that allows me to drink. And that is definately NOT who God wants me to be! But onward and upward! Thanks Odat and Dean.
Great posts everyone ... ... ... My parents are gone now, but I'll never ever forget, at 52 like Dean referred to, going to my parents house and immediately feeling like I was 12 again ... There's just something about being called 'son' or by my 1st and middle name or 'boy' ... and being told what I should do or directed to do this or that ... and when we sat for dinner, being corrected on how to eat properly or something like that ... wow, how those old feelings come rolling back when that happens ... and, yes, for a moment, I felt like I was indeed a 12 year old again ... LOL
After some time in this program, I viewed things differently ... I began to cherish the time with my dad ... and it took some time for the guilt to go away for not being sober for my mom's last years ... now dad is gone too ... and the last years were great for our relationship all because I was sober ... thank you God and AA ... I am grateful for today and have learned to be grateful for the past, which is the building block of my recovery ...
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Pappy you were writing as I was. I have only come to say to my parents in the past couple of months since completing my steps, "I love you too... thanks for trying to help me" or whatever, however it presents... and I'll tell you what... it's like the walls come crashing down. The shoulders drop a little, the face isn't so tight on anyone... the eyes meet... the hugs and love are free for the first times EVER... and it's a slow beginning to what I hope is something miraculous. But it helps me to picture it the other way around... what if my children said to me "thanks for cleaning off my face again, I know you care about me, and love me and I love you too". I just think of that when I'm trying to be a good daughter, and I think of that, what I'm trying to love my children too. I think of who God is letting me be today. That helps me... and it works for me, because I'm not just typing this out here... I'm doing it in real life, and it's really working for our screwed up family dynamic set in stone for 34 yrs.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Dolly, the greatest thing (as you alluded to here) is our ability to start trusting ourselves, knowing who we are and what we need and want, and the realization that we are allowed to do, be, and say that. Blessings.
Justadrunk, Awesome stuff, I tell you, unbelievable. Thanks. I can tell you that recently I have begun to deal with feelings around the fact that i will most likely never get to experience motherhood...I didn't even have the tools to give birth. I think you are indeed blessed.
Thanks Pappy. I wonder if your mom had a hand in you getting sober? She's probably very pleased...when people have passed on to the other side they understand...they have nothing but love for us...they're with God. A mother's understanding surpasses all else humanly.
Yes... and Odat... I'm so sorry for your loss. When we lose people we love, we remember what we loved, and miss it right? I mean, that's a basic version of course for the purpose of my next point. When we lose something we've never had, do we make it up in our head and then miss that? How accurately can we judge how much we would miss something then? I don't really know, I'm just fishing around here in my brain cuz I have the time today to do so : )
So the real question is a complicated one in my mind. God has and is in everything. God would not long for something or fabricate it in his mind and then chose to grieve it, because that is not possible for Him. So what's the answer? What would God do in this situation?
Could this be in the same category as me wanting a car I can't afford? It's putting people and stuff together, so should those things be regarded differently or not?
Should these things even be considered, or is it more important to just acknowledge whatever feelings we have for whatever reason so that we can turn them over to Him ultimately?
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
My Mom was the greatest person I've ever known ... you're forcing me to tears as I recall my behavior in her last years ... she was the most selfless person I ever knew in my entire life (I'm 60 now) ... all she ever did in her life was to give to others ... A great model portraying what a christian life should be ... and a great model for me as a recovering alcoholic and AA'r ...
Her influence on me did not lead me to seek recovery, however, it did provide the ideal personal trait for anyone IN or out of recovery ... My guilt was long and hard to have lifted from me as I practiced the program ... I finally learned there was nothing I could do to undo the past ... my sharp words of disgust to her, regarding how she let others walk all over her were something that haunted me ... allowing others to dictate to her what it was they wanted and her giving them what they wanted, especially family ... I was so very critical of her bowing to their ever want and desire ... then in recovery, I realized it was me, being so selfish and judgemental ... she had made sure with her death, that I and my sister would receive substantial means to get ahead on, because she knew of my Dad's poor handling of money ... and that with his death, nothing would be left ... she cared for others in this way too ... she ALWAYS did without things she needed or wanted so others would have what they wanted ... I don't think I will ever reach that level of charity ...
I agree with you odat, she understands me now ... and though it took some time, I feel she's pleased with my progress ... my graveside amends 'bout did me in ... ... ... ummm ... ... .. sorry, give me a minute ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... She is by far, the one person I aspire to be like ... I miss her dearly ... ... ... ... ...
She may have not had anything to do with my getting sober, but she has everything to do with me 'staying' sober ..... Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
When we lose people we love, we remember what we loved, and miss it right? I mean, that's a basic version of course for the purpose of my next point. When we lose something we've never had, do we make it up in our head and then miss that? How accurately can we judge how much we would miss something then? I don't really know, I'm just fishing around here in my brain cuz I have the time today to do so : )
So the real question is a complicated one in my mind. God has and is in everything. God would not long for something or fabricate it in his mind and then chose to grieve it, because that is not possible for Him. So what's the answer? What would God do in this situation?
Could this be in the same category as me wanting a car I can't afford? It's putting people and stuff together, so should those things be regarded differently or not?
Should these things even be considered, or is it more important to just acknowledge whatever feelings we have for whatever reason so that we can turn them over to Him ultimately?
Good question there Tasha ... ... ... I don't think we can miss something we never had ... we may long for it, want it, crave it, but ultimately we just want the experience of having something others possess, or what we think they possess ... this is akin to envy ... this is the time to consider gratitude for what we do have ...
God would not long for something or fabricate it in his mind and then chose to grieve it, because that is not possible for Him. So what's the answer? What would God do in this situation?
My thought here is God is guided by 'Love' ... God IS Love ... ... ... I do believe that God does experience emotions tied to that love ... God is capable of dissappointment and even anger sometimes when His/Her children don't look to Him/Her for guidance OR live the lives they know they should strive to live for ... so ... does God grieve for what could have been? ... perhaps, but I think it's more of a feeling of sorrow for us to have missed out on something that He/She knew would have enriched our lives, that He/She knew would make us happy ... and we missed it ...
I don't know if you call it grief, sorrow, or even anger, but God did destroy the world by flood once, something He/She promised to never do again, because of the results causing Him/Her great anguish ... ... ... His love was so great, it pained Him to do what He did ... the loss of life immeasureable ... and I believe God need not even have a thought of something He never had, cause He knows what the results of all situations are going to be before hand ... this is just one of those things we learn to accept ... and it is futile to try to 'understand' it ...
Okay, that woke me up ... and I'm not sure what I said is what I meant to say ... does that make sense to anyone? ...
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Pappy said...."Thank God for this program of real life ... and thank all of you here on this forum ..." I second that. Great thread with lots of thought provoking stuff. Only time to skim right now, off to help organize the storeroom at our meeting hall. I am the new "supply person", and need to find out what exactly I have signed up for...... Have a great day all, will check in later. ((((hugs)))) & Peace
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I asked God for all things that I may enjoy life. He gave me life so that I may enjoy all things.
JAD, thank you. I was told in my 4th step that I was going to have to deal with my history around that area...and knowing that everything is perfect in God's world is the greatest gift of peace and trust. Step 12, 12 & 12 says that some of us will have more time to work for God and we will have a fellowship of love. I can't imagine not having AA and all of you.
I think the best way we can make amends to those gone is exactly how you just described, feel about them the way you feel about your mom, and the graveside amends.And to carry them in our hearts. I don't think God expects anything more - I think he is very pleased when we acknowledge our love for them and theirs for us.
When I made amends to my mother for the horrific things I called her she said, "That's part of parenting."
As an alcoholic Mother, it scares me to think that my son may have some scary memories of me. Being 5 when I began my recovery journey, I'm sure he will. That doesn't mean I didn't love him, and love being his Mom while I was actively drinking. And there is still the choice to look at the good times. But Dean, I was still out of line in calling you selfish... very very sorry.
Thanks everyone else for the input... I think this is out of the realm of what should be discussed on an AA forum where people are hoping to see the term Higher power. I would have been scared off by this thread when I first came here, so I apologize for not keeping almost ALL of this to PM's. Sorry moderators and those of you who are new. Please keep in mind that we all have a different understanding of just what a higher power is, even within the discussion above.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Somehow the title of the thread has given me a Juice Newton "Angel of the Morning" earworm. ;) lol
More seriously, the talk of parents and mothers and relationships with them in sobriety is an important one. I only get to see my mother once every one to years on holidays. I got to make amends to her a couple of years ago when I went back home for the first time in sobriety. That was wonderful...she had been very worried about my drinking....but...life keeps happening after that.
A lot of my character defects are still there and can come out when I'm with her again and I can still act in a way in which mean that I need to make amends. Any two-bit shrink would just say that I am reliving childhood trauma and that I have ambivalence, loving her and needing her approval on the one hand and trying to recreate a happy relationship while resenting her and dealing with unresolved feelings of rejection on the other.
I was a dreadful child growing up, and I need to make living amends, but it's still draining. As a parent, I can imagine what it's like not being able to see your child, but it's still draining.
Love what Dean said about ownership of feelings. Ultimately, it's MY resentments and if they are left to fester in me, *I* will drink again.
Thankfully, I have this program, in which I am now making progress, though far from perfection.
no worries, I wasn't offended and I knew where your heart was. I have made my amends with my mom and am actively watching out and over for/her. I helps that we are in the fellowship together and have many other mutual interests. She has been an excellent mom to my brother (54) who lives in a group home near her. That's a long time to be a mom to a perpetual 6 year old. I do have fond memories of my childhood that include being with my friends (extended family). These guys are still real close to me and I visit most of them annually.
As an alcoholic Mother, it scares me to think that my son may have some scary memories of me. Being 5 when I began my recovery journey, I'm sure he will. That doesn't mean I didn't love him, and love being his Mom while I was actively drinking. And there is still the choice to look at the good times. But Dean, I was still out of line in calling you selfish... very very sorry.
Thanks everyone else for the input... I think this is out of the realm of what should be discussed on an AA forum where people are hoping to see the term Higher power. I would have been scared off by this thread when I first came here, so I apologize for not keeping almost ALL of this to PM's. Sorry moderators and those of you who are new. Please keep in mind that we all have a different understanding of just what a higher power is, even within the discussion above.
It scares you too Tasha? Mine as well. My mother grew up in an alcoholic family and then she had to deal with me. I guess sainthood is next on her list of accomplishments. God knows she deserves it. No worries today, thanks be to God. Great stuff everyone. Keep them coming.
