I listened to a speaker the other night who said he was a chronic relapser for years and years. Finally he got a sponsor, but was still relapsing. The sponsor kept calling him and saying "okay, what are we going to do different this time?"
He said he finally stayed sober just to keep his sponsor off his back - so he'd quit calling him.
I thought that was in direct conflict with everything I've been told about people who go back out.
A friend of mine just relapsed.
I had already called her twice during the week, once I left a message letting her know when I'd have babysitters. Another time I just called cuz I heard she was sick. Then I found out she actually relapsed, and then I called again and left a message saying I'd like to tell her about my relapse experience when she had time. I have not heard anything from her.
Now it's been a week I guess... feeling the urge to call again. Too knew to trust my own judgement here.
She and I got along real well, and I would continue being friends with her even if she is still drinking. Doesn't really matter to me if we're aa friends or not.
Any suggestions on how to handle my feelings on this? All I come up with when I turn it over to my HP are feelings of giving up, and taking the easy way out.
When I try to feel His will for me, I keep feeling like I should do more... that hearing that speaker now in my life was a sign of some sort - not sure if I believe in signs either.
Confused. Talked it over with my sponsor - she said to call again in a week to just let her know I care and that I'm always an ear to listen when she's ready.
What would you do? How far have you gone? How do you know when to back off? What happened to the guys like Bill W who went right to the bedside of the hospital... called around town trying to find a drunk? I see it's a different age. We can't do that extreme today... but are we really too lax?
I suppose I understand that most dont have the time I do. Most have their own problems to focus on. I'm kinda complacent with few issues these days... I can do more to help my fellows... but how far do I go before I'm a nutty lady that everyone hides from when they see comin? I'm thinking of when the jehova's witnesses come to my door, and I turn off the lights and hide LOL.
Thanks for listening to my schpeal tonight everyone.
Grateful to be here, and that you're here.
Tasha
-- Edited by justadrunk on Sunday 21st of October 2012 06:48:17 AM
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
It really depends dear. In this case, I think you've done enough already. I guess this falls under the category of 'relapse prevention' right about now, among other things -with added emphasis, of course, on the word 'prevention'. That's why the doors of A.A. swing both ways, plain and simple.
Lets' face it, though: Preventing these high risk situations from evolving may be more difficult than previously imagined, despite your good intentions. Even if you're able to get through to them, someway, somehow, it's not a guarantee either way. There will always be some sort of heartache, disappointment or resentment that 'may' cause us to lose hope once again; it comes with the territory that's all. So the best we can do -for now- is to make our presence known, just like Pappy and Rob already said. It might cause them to rethink their strategy after all.
Everyone, in recovery, has their own set of circumstances to overcome; some more glaring than others. Sometimes we see ourselves as nothing more than complete failures. And we carry those thoughts around in the same putrid manner as we do our own addictions. Ask the person who has 3, 5 maybe even 10 years clean; they're tell you. It took them over a year or so to see success at any level, if they're lucky. So it's important to map out a strategy that also includes timeframes. That way they can expect more lasting results while suffering fewer setbacks. It helped me, and maybe it can help them also.
There's no way of knowing what the future may hold or if we even have the capacity to drink once again. Sometimes it's just hit or miss. There's an accumulation of things that could go wrong in our everyday lives which could push us back over the edge. It's a sad but true reality. I try not to take these things personally, that's all. Recovery isn't a straight path forward either. For many, it's a few steps forward while for others a step or two back. Some of those people make the recovery 'two step' part of their daily routine; but not us. We have a support network in place that almost guarantees our survival, while others simply do not.
You're part of that support network Tasha, but you can only support her why she's still willing. So here's my suggestion: Continue on with your daily routine just like you always do, and then wait for her to respond. It just may be the right call after all. Thanks again for reaching out Tasha. It shows how committed you really are.
~God Bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Friday 19th of October 2012 02:05:09 PM
When working with a chronic relapse'r, there isn't a whole lot more one can do than to let them know you're there for them as your sponsor said ... to let them know you care is about all we can do ... you know the old saying 'we can't work the program for someone else' ... we can only do what keeps us sober so as to be available for others when the call for help comes in ...
It used to hit me hard, and still does sometimes, depending on the individual, to learn that they're having a rough go of it ... but it still boils down to the fact that they won't get sober until they're ready ... some of us haven't suffered enough yet and some of us will die before learning of this new way of life that's so very rewarding ... it's terrible, but it's the sad truth ...
Love Ya, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Thanks for sharing the story. I can't be sure, but the guy telling his story my have been adding some dramatics for effect
I think your sponsor is right, you may want to make contact every week or two if you like, but I wouldn't push it. We don't chase after people who don't want it. A belly full of alcohol and a head full of AA isn't a fun combination for the relapser, If she isn't ready to stop she will probably aviod you and other AA's as we are reminding her of what she probably wants to forget.
Funny thing I was just just talking to a sponcee who has over 10 yrs, he was talking about a old buisiness associate who is a bad alcoholic that he has been talking with...wearing him down with the drama of alcoholism, but doesn't seem to be that interested in recovery. Then I asked him about his sponcee who wants to stay sober....hadn't talked with him in week.
I know some of the things in "Working with others" chapter may seem a little dated, but the general essence still applies and there is a lot of great information in this chapter.
Page 96: You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Thanks family - you are my rock as always, appreciate every word. It helps just to give it these final thoughts so I can feel closure if this is the end. I gave her situation a decent amount of respect, thought and time. I didn't just blow it off. So I suppose I can let God's will be just that now ; )
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
You call and say, "I'm just calling one more time. I care about you and I know how hard it is to come back after a relapse. Not judging. I'm here when and if you need me." Then the ball is in her court. If you want more service Tasha, the opportunities are abundant. Chair meetings, be a secretary, be a GSR...get involved with intergroup....Start telling your story at speaker meetings.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Can I do all of that with under a year? Not at our clubhouse here in this city... everything requires a year of sobriety except the noon meetings are lax and no one really cares if I chair, I only get "spoken to" here and there for doing it. Soon enough I suppose it will be a year for me. I'll just keep bugging all of you until then lol! Thanks guys.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I don't know that there's anything wrong with calling. As long as I don't expect anything and I'm working my own program, there's no reason not to.
I was giving a guy rides for a while, and once I called his house and his wife answered. She put him on and he was obliterated. Could barely talk but said "thaaanks for calllling but I won't be gooooooing tonite". Then he put her back on, and she said I just wanted you to hear it for yourself.
I didn't bug him anymore. He was in and out and in and out for 8-9 years, lost everything. Stayed sober at one point over a year, but never got the happiness. I really liked the guy. Reminded me of my dad - even though he wasn't that much older than me. He loved his kids and he loved his dog. He lost everything, even the dog, died drunk.
Not a lot I could have done for him. He had many, many sponsors over the years. He never got past the "I can't drink anymore, my life is over" stage. That was my dad, to a tee.
And from dealing with this person, I knew my dad loved his kids too. It was a healing experience, part of what allowed me to forgive my dad.
Hey Tasha--you may be interested in this AA article on clubhouses. http://aa.org/en_pdfs/mg-03_clubs.pdf
AA meetings that are held in clubhouses are still AA meetings; the clubhouse should be a separate endeavor and not intrude in any AA meeting or group that it permits to be held on the premises. Unless the AA Group responsible for the meeting(s) has had a business meeting and taken a group conscious to agree to set limits on the "time" one must have to do certain functions, such "requirements" may just be an informal notion of the culture and not a requirement at all. There are some common sense reasons for setting some "time" requirements, such as not entrusting the Group treasurer position to the newcomer with three days off the sauce. Usually though, who may chair a meeting is up to the group conscience and documented in the business meeting notes. You might consider just asking where the 1 year rule came from...especially if the clubhouse is actually co-mingling it's business with AA.
I dunno - how far do you go....my sponsor allus said examine your motives and back off when it threatens your sobriety.
So I've finally thrown te flashing blue lights away, hung up the sword and put the big white horse out to pasture,
I will go more than half way, sometimes way too much more than halfway, but in the end, either they want it or, for now, they don't
I heard in a meeting, if you want to get sober I'll go to the very gates of hell with you. If you want to drink, you can go on your own.
Example - chronic relapser called one time told me he was drinking - asked me to come round, I found him off his face and scrounging for money for more - walk away. A few weeks later his partner called, (They didn't live together) told me she couldn't get hold ofhim. It was snowing, asked me to try and contact him. I feared he'd be dead drunk and frozen in the garden. One part said leave it, the other part said could I sleep comfortable at night if I did. Went round, he was snoring softly in the kitchen, walked away. 3 months later he called, told me he had been dry (his words) for a couple months, had just gone through home detox again having drunk after a couple months, asked me to take him through the programme. He's got more than 3 years in, but I don't like his brand of sobriety, but it works for him. So, low key and when he had had enough, he asked for help and worked it.
There's a few examples like that, I cannot get and keep anyone sober. Human compassion, OK, but I will not now try to rescue anyone and I will allus guard against being made a monkey of.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Thanks everyone so much. She called. I was just about to call again and leave a "final message" letting her know she could always call me... and then she called. Then she called again the next day. We made a plan to call and do our readings in the morning together... and discuss. I didn't know what else to suggest because she does have a busy schedule raising 3 kids, managing Macy's (having to cover for people that call in) and I just can't force her to drop it all like I did... not everyone has that luxury. I am so grateful I did. She is rather high bottom in my personal opinion. Still married, still has the house & car, her health, her kids, her job & hasn't really done much but it's the kids and husband who are distraught, and that reminds me of me.
She minimizes everything like I did in the beginning. She makes lots of excuses. She tells me what she thinks I want to hear, especially our little sayings. I did exactly that. Then I drank again. So did she. Now she's back.
I called her out on all this stuff. I was a little more firm this time with the urgency in my voice, and I told her I don't want to hear any of that anymore. She's not opening up, she's saying what she thinks I want to hear, and I thought she hung up on me. But then she said... your right. Exhaled.
I said that what's she's doing is normal for an alcoholic. I asked her: HOW does she turn her will and her life over to the care of God as she understands Him. She said, she goes to church, she prays, she reads. I said, fine. That's good, but is that How? She didn't know How after all... she's afraid to open up, she doesn't do that she says. I said, fine. That's normal too. Do you want to know how I do it? She said yes. I said... we'll work the steps then. We'll discover how for you. We'll cut out the fox hole praying and pray for others especially those we don't want to. We'll start to do what's on our list of what God is as best we can... the next right thing. We'll be honest to ourselves and each other. I told her the first day I got nothing right. I begged, yelled, pleaded, cried, whined. We keep trying no matter how many things we feel we got right. Each day is a new day... a gift... we take care of it as best we can each day. Our only concern is the right thing right in front of us. Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. Not anything but the moment's gift. How can grow with God in this moment. That's the question we ask ourselves as much as we can. We remember we'll never be perfect. We'll only try to make progress. 1 thing right was progress for me.
Then I realized I'm slacking in all that stuff. Especially praying.
Then I remembered I'm 6 months sober and felt unworthy.
Then she had to go, and I was unsure.
Then I prayed for her. Remembered why I'm here... felt worthy... remembered I was not being honest with all of you because I'm still fearful myself... and so here it is: I'm sponsoring this lady. Yes, with this tiny little helping of my sobriety. Yes.... I didn't think I should either. My sponsor said she would always help me... and told me this was the natural next step. I'm still scared. I told that to my sponsee when she asked me... and put her off for 2 days waiting and feeling unsure. But it was MOSTLY about what people would think, and that I know at least, that I know very little.
So I consulted with someone here on the board, and with my sponsor, and then said I was sorry I didn't mean to put her off because of her, and told her all this that I was feeling. Then I told her I could help her if she still wanted me to. She squealed, and I was a deer in head lights. I had taken her out for supper the night she asked me. We talked for a couple of hours... and I wasn't her sponsor, and it was easy and natural. Then she asked me, and I felt different. Hard to explain different, but even the sound of my voice was different. At least to me.
So I guess I must say... I've needed all of your help like always, and it doesn't feel right not having it. I'm sorry for lying. I know if she gets the help through me, from all of you... she'll have a MUCH MUCH better chance at this thing. You've saved my life, and I need you for everything... especially this... so I can't hide it any longer.
Wheew!
My sponsor has been a help. I picked up another sponsor for extra strength and available words of wisdom. I'm trying to continue to pray for her, but I keep also praying for my own words to be right for her.
When I'm teaching music, I'm so confident. I know I know it, and I know how people learn it. But I didn't feel like that in the beginning... when I started teaching, and I still wasn't even in college! I know starting so young... and teaching the basics while learning how to teach & still learning my own advanced skills was the best thing for me! It gave me such amazing insights... it constantly reiterated my own basic skills, really kept everything so neatly polished, and I was all the better for doing it this way.
Was it the best thing for the students? Would they have been better off with a teacher who had more experience than the years I was alive? I don't know.
We are where we are suppose to be. That means they were too. Trust. Breath. Live. Learn. Love. Grow.
Trust Him.
Any other thoughts would gratefully appreciated.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
What I took from your post is that we must be patient and allow God to work His miracles in His own time ... and that I shouldn't have expectations that others will respond to me when I think they should, or how they should ... I also was reminded that 'I am not in Control', nor should I be ... I am reminded that I should simply make myself available to others, and to not 'force' their recovery to conform to my standards ...
Thank you so much Tasha ... for me? ... you are helping to keep my 'recovery' FRESH ... there seems to never be a dull moment with you ... speaking for myself, you are good for my recovery ... and you are every bit qualified to sponsor someone else, in my opinion ...
Love you sooooo much, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Whether to sponsor or not is between you and (your) God. I have heard it said that the essential requirement to be a sponsor is to have had a spiritual experience through working the steps, (not just time sober). It seems this miraculous change of outlook and attitude(the spiritual awalening or experience) is worth truck loads of knowledge and study when it comes to spiritual work. The main job, perhaps the only job, of a sponsor is to show the newcomer how to have a spiritual experience. Show them how you did it, and maybe they will recover too.
God bless, MikeH.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Sunday 21st of October 2012 10:50:39 PM
Confused. Talked it over with my sponsor - she said to call again in a week to just let her know I care and that I'm always an ear to listen when she's read
Thanks for sharing all of this. I know that God puts people in our path for a reason, I know you will do your best to get her connected and active. My experience is that we can't really keep people sober or get them drunk, it's a beautiful thing when the miracle does happen.
We do our best to present the gift, we can't make anyone accept it but we always grow and stay sober in the process.
I took me awhile to understand that I needed to keep "self" and ego out of the whole process
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
