There are basically two directions I can go in once I get into AA. There's getting the willingness to work the program of recovery and knowing God and aligning my will with His once I understand what that means, and there's believing that I'm here for me. There's the complete destruction of self-centerdness and the leveling of pride, and there's inflating my pride and ego and thinking about my status in AA.
Each day I have these choices. Either I can start thinking about how I deserve to be treated or I can remember how even Jesus Christ was treated...I can demand that I get respect or I can understand I may get none and tolerate it. I can think about how to get a job and a wife or I can just follow principles and let God decide if He wants to bring me those things.
Nothing can come before my recovery, my very own willingness...each day i must walk the path of the Father under any and all circumstances, through all the pains of growth and humiliation.
I realize today that I was sent to AA by God to be one of His little saints, a worker among men, whether those men be Harvard graduates or commonplace folks...I must do His will not only when it's easy but when it gets tuff too...through all the mountaintops and valleys.
It is in the valley that we must be strong...as God's people we stand on our feet, we don't crawl before anyone...and we also don't react to the bad behavior of others. It ain't easy being us, is it? We already have enough problems of our own and now we are supposed to tolerate others' poor behavior? Yup....
We take it to God in quiet time...we must close the door in private...we pray for strength and courage and tolerance and understanding...over time we come to rely on our thinking becoming more right.
So basically what I'm saying is I ain't here to get props or security or comfort, I'm here to do the tuff stuff of life...yup, more tuff stuff. And when I do it well I feel the Father shining down upon me...He is pleased. When I fail I ask Him to help me grow...He is always patient.
It's really really simple but not easy at all.
Thank goodness we have each other.
May God bless you and keep you as you go through your day doing God's will. You are never alone.
-- Edited by odat on Friday 5th of October 2012 06:43:30 AM
Thanks Odat for bring the message of faith here. Being one with God. We stood at the turning point and ask his protection and care with complete abandonment. If we're one with God, the rest of our lives is none of our business.
You know we have about 1000 visitors a day, many trying to evaluate AA to see if it's a solution to their problem. Religious content here is most likely doing a lot more harm than good. We are far from being an autonomous closed group here. We're in a precarious position of not being an AA group, or AA, but because we talk about it here, we are representing AA worldwide. We don't have a set of rules here, but John did make a statement, in the thread introducing the new moderators, saying that we don't allow religious content for the reason I listed above in my first sentence. We not anti-religious (I'm a Catholic personally) we are Pro-newcomer. Thanks for your cooperation, and I'm hoping that the OP will do some editing.
Alcoholics Anonymous Preamble
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organizations or institutions; does not wish to engage in controversy; neither endorses or opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
Reprinted with permission of the AA Grapevine, Inc.
I find that the greatest thing about AA is that it opens our minds to a "continuing education program" on our faith. We define our own, and support and try and understand others. It is posts like Odat's above that bring out the beauty of our website. Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Some of what is taught in Buddhism is also taught in the Bible (read Matt. 6:25-34)... principle-wise ... mixed with a lot of what I call 'common sense' ...
I think we should be allowed to express our true feelings here without putting down someone else's religion ... if and/or when a person chooses to work the AA program, they'll most certainly be introduced to the spiritual nature of our recovery plan ... I didn't care for it at all, personally ... I had to go back out and drink enough to just about die first ... then, like you, I was in a position to try just about anything to get and stay sober ... I, for one, didn't care what the plan was ... I became willing to try anything ... I had to become 'open-minded' enough to listen to anything being offered ...
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Friday 5th of October 2012 06:53:37 PM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Personally, I loved odat's post ... and if there were 'religious' references, I didn't see them ... What I read was from someone who has gained 'spiritual knowledge and experience' and simply shared her ESH regarding what she's found through the AA program ... I found that to be a beautiful admission ... and it so happens I have experienced very similar changes in my life too ...
I guess I failed to see where she was promoting the Jewish, Christian, Buddha, or any other 'faiths' found around the world ... And she certainly didn't say anything negative about someone else's religion ...
To me, this whole program involves a great 'spiritual alliance' to be successful ... and what odat sharing was nothing more than a great example of this alliance ...
I'm still waiting to see someone share where they felt 'offended' ...
P.S. Feel free to disagree with me if you wish ... won't hurt my feelings at all ... God knows what's in my heart ...
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Well - it was a fine line for me coming in - if it wasn't for the "non-God" pile of stuff offered to read - I would have not come back. Probably be dead by now. Or homeless at least. If people in my home group weren't so completely thoughtful and diligent about using the word Higher power instead of God - and someone early on hadn't explained to me about the replacement of good orderly direction when I heard the word God - and explained my higher power as AA to begin - I would likely be passed out somewhere by now at 4:22pm. My kids would have another hr before my husband got home... they would be pretty scared right now, instead of happily eating some carrots and watching eagerly for the jello to mold. : )
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Pappy, I consider myself lucky in that I was raised with a faith and, even though I turned my back on it, I never gave it up. My faith was weekend to the point that I didn't think it had any power in my life. Fortunately for me, and probably for you too Pappy, we brought a faith with us to the program to work on. For many many others, this is just not the case. A lot of us never had a faith or spiritual practice and have become ridiculously bothered by hordes trying to sell them one. Others had one and decided it wasn't for them. Many of those people have strong feelings (read negative) about it. It's naive to ignore these people perceptions and attitudes and talk as if the aren't there, and guess what , they won't be. I saw a statement made here last year about how "If talk of God pushed them out of the rooms, that the booze will push them back in". Well that's a hell of a risky proposition. And I can't help to think that the opinion of those who think that would also think that if they don't have a faith (and a specific faith at that) then they are doomed anyway, so no worries.
I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
I hope everyone had a good day. Thanks for responding to what I posted.
When I got to AA I was so willing that I didn't care what anyone called their Higher Power, I wasn't looking for discrepencies. If they had thrown on smocks, lighted incense and chanted Hari Krishna I might have been a little concerned though...:)
I understand your point here Dean ... but it's my understanding that "God" is mentioned 298 times between the BB and the 12 & 12 ...
And just how does one share their ESH without mentioning God when that's exactly what they feel is the key to their sobriety? ... ... Leaving God out would be like cutting out part of the ESH that made it possible for them to remain sober ...
We've been down this road before ... and the result, and I know this for a fact, is that if we are limited in sharing our spiritual progress, then good people with good recovery, will leave ... and post elsewhere ... so just how do you draw a line and control what others want to share ? ... I think the ole 'Take what you want and leave the rest' is the policy that should be observed here ... Yes, I know there are some that may be turned off by the mention of God, well, I'm turned off when I told to limit my sharing if God is the main subject ... God did not establish any 'religion' ... that is something that 'man' came up with all by himself ... So unless one promotes a particular religion, then I don't see a problem ...
There are still a lot of entries here that God is not the main topic ... so if a person comes here seeking help and looks over a number of different posts & threads, then they can decide for themselves if they can tolerate us or not , kinda like 'Justadrunk' did ...
just sayin' ... ... this is only an opinion of an old drunk who chose not to drink today ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Pappy you share a lot of the same philosophies I do.
For me I will say that mine eyes can see that the BB is based on Judeo-Christian principles (old & new testament.) So as I go forward I look at Christianity (and other religions) to get more validation and help for the principles in AA. I do however use what is known as spiritual discernment to know what to make use of (page 87) and what I can't use. Even what I can't use I don't snap my mind shut to. I certainly only know a little.
Pappy, I think you're just giving lip service here, otherwise you'd have addressed my points made in my post made about visitors to this site passing it up, as you all are enjoying your sunday service here.
but it's my understanding that "God" is mentioned 298 times between the BB and the 12 & 12 ...
And that's probably about 286 times too many, and probably why AA is regularly accused of being a religious cult
And just how does one share their ESH without mentioning God when that's exactly what they feel is the key to theirsobriety? ...
By using the words "Higher Power", and refraining from quoting bible verses and mentioning Jesus Christ, it's not that hard to do.
... Leaving God out would be like cutting out part of the ESH that made it possible for them to remain sober ...
All I'm hearing is Me, Me, Me here, any thought for the newcomer that see's god in every sentence and frustratingly walks away. Is your crusade more important then the newcomer?
Pappy, I think you're just giving lip service here, otherwise you'd have addressed my points made in my post made about visitors to this site passing it up, as you all are enjoying your sunday service here.
but it's my understanding that "God" is mentioned 298 times between the BB and the 12 & 12 ...
And that's probably about 286 times too many, and probably why AA is regularly accused of being a religious cult
And just how does one share their ESH without mentioning God when that's exactly what they feel is the key to theirsobriety? ...
By using the words "Higher Power", and refraining from quoting bible verses and mentioning Jesus Christ, it's not that hard to do.
... Leaving God out would be like cutting out part of the ESH that made it possible for them to remain sober ...
All I'm hearing is Me, Me, Me here, any thought for the newcomer that see's god in every sentence and frustratingly walks away. Is your crusade more important then the newcomer?
Well put Dean, a lot of us are Atheist/Agnostoc, every sponsee I have ever worked with I had to spend a ton of time walking them through this as they were atheist/agnostic when they began as well
Religion has no place in AA, period
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Ok guys.. This thread has made me think that perhaps I should refrain from using 'God' in both my posts and in meetings. I use the term to refer to my higher power, of course, and understand that not everybody believes that 'God' is their Higher Power. To be honest, I've never given much thought to this being either offensive or alienating to anybody.. Just used the term to express my own conception. I now agree that 'Higher Power' is a more appropriate term to use. Thanks for the great discussion on the topic:)
Yes, I use the word God way too much lately... It's easier - and that's selfish. It's also me searching for acceptance from others, and that's lying. That's manipulative. I can't feel love when I'm not real.
Like Dean said, it's NOT all that hard to use the words higher power accordingly. The newcomer IS the most important person in the room... even this virtual room... this was where my eyes first met AA.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Is your crusade more important then the newcomer?