Great promotional Daniella, thanks

Tanin

It's a burgeoning problem.

 

 

 

 Tanin Wrote

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 Are you saying it's a zero-sum game?

 

 Tanin wrote:

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   They seem like good folks to me.

 

Rob84 wrote:

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It's a free country, you can start your own recovery program or whatever, but don't imply the it's AA or NA etc related.  This is really sad,  thank God they only have 200 or so supporters,  hopfully just their family members LOL.

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 I didn't see the implication that their effort was AA-related or affiliated. Which, ironically, is what MIP does, even though we are not AA-affiliated in fact. Again, there is a lot of looseness in recent years with regard to anonymity and labels in online environments.

I don't know why you would  express gratitude that they have only 272 supporters. That number is just the numer of "backers," folks who have pledged money for the production costs. The purpose of the film is to, uh, generate more support for their idea--and more supporters.

In answer to SobrietySpell's request for opinions, my position is that any honest effort to aid alcoholics, whether it be spiritual, medical, psychological, or even political, is a good thing. So, I encourage that.  

It's not a zero-sum game, folks.

Thanks for posting that issue, SS.

Lord knows that alcoholism is a huge health issue in this country.

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 How can you say there is no implication that this is AA related?  They mention 12 step and anonymous all over the place,  they show a meeting with NA all over the wall.  The one speaker mentions our traditions and thows them under the bus. 

 Yes, there is a problem like you say with people following the traditions.....are you going to be part of the problem or solution?

Sorry if you can't see, it they are strongly implying they are AA/NA members. Technically they don't say it.

 Seriously,  I believe in live and let live.  if you want to start your own recovery program,  fine,  just don't use the term anonymous and not be anonymous then mention 12 steps and start asking people for $$ online.  Why do we want some yo-yo's in a film doing this and making people think anonymous recovery is about making a film and pounding your chest about being a "game changer" LOL.

Yes, Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to......... 

Rob84 wrote:

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I can't see how anyone who has worked the steps and is truely sober can do things like this in disregard for all the many sober in our programs.

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Huh? These guys are just trying a different, reality-based approach to helping their constituency. The effort does have some logic to it.

"Disregard," you say? Are you saying it's a zero-sum game?

When people get up in public and give a strong impression of being a AA or NA member by mentioning anonymity, 12 steps and traditions I do not support it as they do not speak for myself  the AA program or others in AA.

Come-on Tanin you know better than this...

-- Edited by Rob84 on Tuesday 18th of September 2012 02:15:15 AM

Hi Daniella,


There isn't much to think about on this if I consider myself a member of AA and want to preserve the program that saved my life.  They are totally disregarding the traditions,  we are anonymous at the level of press radio, film and internet. 

They talk about anonymous 12 step programs, but show a NA meeting in progress,  but show their faces and give full names.

They talk about forming a voting block....AA has no opinion on outside issues.

Bill Johnson,  Anonymity is not the spirtitual foundation of our traditions,  we are anonymous because we are ashamed.....???

High profile "Game changers"??  What about humility.  These people need to start a jail meeting,  sponsor someone or get active in their homegroup.

I can't see how anyone who has worked the steps and is truely sober can do things like this in disregard for all the many sober in our programs. 

There are a lot of ways to help and stay anonymous,  this is just about leveraging our 12 step programs for personal profit these have to be sick people. 

It's a free country, you can start your own recovery program or whatever, but don't imply the it's AA or NA etc related.  This is really sad,  thank God they only have 200 or so supporters,  hopfully just their family members LOL.

Hi Tashia,

You bring up some good points.  In general I think there is some confusion here about anonymity.

Our 11th traditon reads: Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.  Maintaining anonymity for promotional reasons on the internet is also included.

Whether we are anonymous on a personal level with friends, co-workers, family members, the PTA or Rotary club etc is our personal decision,  although we should not disclose the unauthorized anonymity of other AA members.  Here is a pamplet on "Understanding Anonymity". http://www.aa.org/lang/en/catalog.cfm?category=4&product=7

They say the steps are "How it works" and the traditions are "why it works".  There are good reasons for all of our tradions where where born from early AA mistakes and problems that where destroying unity and keeping us from our primary purpose.

I was a little on edge last night and the things on the link in question kind of put gas on the flame :)), so sorry to all for the manic reaction.  I understand they are trying to put together some type of advocacy group raise money and often corruption follows.  I guess they feel there is a need for a different PR program for recovery where they need to the face of recovery.  I didn't like them slamming our tradition of anonymity......whatever,  they can do what they need to do.  It just seems like they claim how 22 million have been successful in mostly 12 step recovery programs and then they trample on the reasons these programs still exsist for myself and many others.....the traditions.  I could be wrong, maybe they are right,  but this is just my experience.

I will paste the long form of the 11th tradition below.... I will paste the last paragraph which is a summary first in case you don't want to read it all.

This, in brief, is the process by which A.A.s Tradition Eleven was constructed. To us, however, it represents far more than a sound public relations policy. It is more than a denial of self-seeking. This Tradition is a constant and practical reminder that personal ambition has no place in A.A. In it, each member becomes an active guardian of our Fellowship.

WITHOUT its legions of well-wishers, A.A. could never have grown as it has. Throughout the world, immense and favorable publicity of every description has been the prin­cipal means of bringing alcoholics into our Fellowship. In A.A. offices, clubs, and homes, telephones ring constantly. One voice says, I read a piece in the newspapers . . another, We heard a radio program . . .; and still an­other, We saw a moving picture . . . or We saw some­thing about A.A. on television. . . . It is no exaggeration to say that half of A.A.s membership has been led to us through channels like these.

The inquiring voices are not all alcoholics or their families. Doctors read medical papers about Alcoholics Anonymous and call for more information. Clergymen see articles in their church journals and also make inquiries. Employers learn that great corporations have set their ap­proval upon us, and wish to discover what can be done about alcoholism in their own firms.

Therefore, a great responsibility fell upon us to develop the best possible public relations policy for Alcoholics Anonymous. Through many painful experiences, we think we have arrived at what that policy ought to be. It is the opposite in many ways of usual promotional practice. We found that we had to rely upon the principle of attraction rather than of promotion.

Lets see how these two contrasting ideasattraction and promotionwork out. A political party wishes to win an election, so it advertises the virtues of its leadership to draw votes. A worthy charity wants to raise money; forthwith, its letterhead shows the name of every distinguished person whose support can be obtained. Much of the political, economic, and religious life of the world is dependent upon publicized leadership. People who symbolize causes and ideas fill a deep human need. We of A.A. do not question that. But we do have to soberly face the fact that being in the public eye is hazardous, especially for us. By tempera­ment, nearly every one of us had been an irrepressible pro­moter, and the prospect of a society composed almost en­tirely of promoters was frightening. Considering this explo­sive factor, we knew we had to exercise self-restraint.

The way this restraint paid off was startling. It resulted in more favorable publicity of Alcoholics Anonymous than could possibly have been obtained through all the arts and abilities of A.A.s best press agents. Obviously, A.A. had to be publicized somehow, so we resorted to the idea that it would be far better to let our friends do this for us. Pre­cisely that has happened, to an unbelievable extent. Veteran newsmen, trained doubters that they are, have gone all out to carry A.A.s message. To them, we are something more than the source of good stories. On almost every newsfront, the men and women of the press have attached themselves to us as friends.

In the beginning, the press could not understand our refusal of all personal publicity. They were genuinely baffled by our insistence upon anonymity. Then they got the point. Here was something rare in the worlda society which said it wished to publicize its principles and its work, but not its individual members. The press was delighted with this attitude. Ever since, these friends have reported A.A. with an enthusiasm which the most ardent members would find hard to match.

There was actually a time when the press of America thought the anonymity of A.A. was better for us than some of our own members did. At one point, about a hundred of our Society were breaking anonymity at the public level. With perfectly good intent, these folks declared that the principle of anonymity was horse-and-buggy stuff, some­thing appropriate to A.A.s pioneering days. They were sure that A.A. could go faster and farther if it availed itself of modern publicity methods. A.A., they pointed out, included many persons of local, national, or international fame. Provided they were willingand many werewhy shouldnt their membership be publicized, thereby en­couraging others to join us? These were plausible argu­ments, but happily our friends of the writing profession disagreed with them.

The Foundation* wrote letters to practically every news outlet in North America, setting forth our public relations policy of attraction rather than promotion, and emphasizing personal anonymity as A.A.s greatest protection. Since that time, editors and rewrite men have repeatedly deleted names and pictures of members from A.A. copy; frequently, they have reminded ambitious individuals of A.A.s policy. They have even sacrificed good stories to this end. The force of their cooperation has certainly helped. Only a few A.A. members are left who deliberately break anonymity at the public level.

This, in brief, is the process by which A.A.s Tradition Eleven was constructed. To us, however, it represents far more than a sound public relations policy. It is more than a denial of self-seeking. This Tradition is a constant and practical reminder that personal ambition has no place in A.A. In it, each member becomes an active guardian of our Fellowship.

 .

Thanks Rob ... great post

This is really a 'deep' subject for my 'shallow' mind to consider ... my 2 brains cells are over-worked as it is ...

I feel it important for us to remain 'self-supporting' and 'non-promotional' ... That has always worked before
and I feel change would be detrimental to our way of life in AA ... ??? am I anywhere near being on subject ??? ...

Tanin wrote:

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AA traditions wouldn't apply to such an organization, but it would almost certainly respect those traditions.

 

  Perception of anonymity Mobilizing an effective constituency begins with shifting the perception that anonymity means people in recovery cannot speak publicly about their recovery.

 

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 Like I said,  I don't dispute that the movement is a noble cause.

If in fact these people are going to speak in public at the level of Press, radio, film and promotional internet and reveal their faces and full names and suggest or state that they are members of 12 step anonymous recovery programs,  thus ignoring the traditions of their respected programs then they are just damaging the cause they wish to help. 

Think about it, these acts will only increase the perception of alcohlics and addicts being of "low moral values" and lose them credibility.

Think about it,  if you are going to say you are in an anonymous program,  be interviewed/whatever, don't show your face or give your full name.  Do these few people believe they know better than what 75 years has taught us?  If they want to show their face and give provide their names in public tell people you are in recovery or whatever,  just not anonymous recovery.

Think about it,  the statement they made about changing the "preception of anonymity" by breaking anonymity?  Are they trying to change the meaning of the word anonymity...need to notify Websters first .  Is this kind of like making the perception of the word stop to actually mean start.

If they are going to publicly disclose themselves say they are members of Anonymous progams in the mass media,  then they need to "strap on a set" and explain their positions for wanting to change or ignore the principles of anonymity for programs they are members.  Just explain their convictions as to why anonymity is not good and the traditions are wrong,  that I could at least respect...but not the dancing around about perceptions and not wanting to disrespect etc.,  this just shows the low moral conviction they wish to dispell.