Aloha Paul and welcome back...got a suggestion...re-read your post as if you were someone else and then ask yourself the question, "What am I so fearful about"? If you are so in control about getting and staying sober by yourself than there should be no problem walking into an open, for free AA meeting and then walking out without any problems. I had a huge distaste for open, face to face AA meetings when I first got introduced to them and I just walked away no problem. I did find out later from experience that being "dry" isn't being sober and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous isn't only about not drinking. Alcoholism is a progressive, fatal disease. Its been around for thousands of years and is as old as dirt. Of course anyone can try anything for any reason at all. Sitting with and listening to others who have a lot of experience, strength and hope from a program of recovery increases my odds that "I" can do it also.
Second thoughts? of course the fear of doing something new and different is within the natural order of things.
(((hugs)))
Just want to add that I have a friend in recovery who has been around the program for 16+ years and has 45 days of dry time. Cunning Powerful and Baffling our disease is and his name? Paul M.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 30th of August 2012 06:08:22 PM
Not really sure how to say this, but what if I dont go to the meetings and did this by myself, I have the books and I'm in my 5th day of being sober! I'm doing this for myself, to make me a better person and I'm getting old health reasons, Its good to be able to talk to people here while I'm doing this, but I dont want to be that involved with face to face meetings, seems the more I come here, the more I think about booze, does this sound normal?
18yrs ago, I was into heavy Drugs for about a year, crack, herion, for a very short time of maybe six months, but one day I woke up so pissed at myself that I walked away from it on my own and never touched it again without any help from anyone, I mean never again, and now I have this drinking thing that I said the same thing too, I'm just so done with drinking, that I woke up and said to myself, I'm done!
I feel this way strongly about not drinking, that I hate it, I think of drinking like Crack, its for losers and I dont need it in my life like a friend that screwed me over and never talked to again, walked away and never came back!
I didnt drink and drive, I dont have a police record or any drug charges, I have a good job that I have had for 20yrs, Two wonderful kids and wife that never thought it was never a problem, never hit them or beat them or yelled, cooked, cleaned, just like a perfect family man, and my home is paid off, so my problems are not many, none that I couldnt solve myself, which comes to this...
Do I really need the meetings?
I'm not knocking anyone here what so ever, and can probaly just log out and never come back and stay sober with this site or not! and if I stay, would everyone look down upon me?
Paul, how you stay sober is up to you. Pick a method that works for you. Almost all members of AA attend meetings. But some don't.
And some people stay sober without going to face to face meetings. They may use online means such as http://www.soberrecovery.com or may use online meetingsnsuch as http://www.aaonline.net/ or something else.
Whichever method you choose, best of luck. And, please, feel free to hang around here anytime you wish. There are no requirements.
Going to AA 'f to f' meetings is not a requirement ... and I have come across 2 people in the last 20 years, that got and stayed sober without them ... not very good odds ... 'f to f' meetings made alcoholism REAL to me ... ... ... and the fact that 'doing something', anything, as a group rather than an individual, is always more successful and goes more toward assuring success ... to me? ... it's just 'common sense' ...
We, or at least I, will not look down on you if you choose not to go to meetings ... in fact, I would look up to you for having the ability to do this on your own ... But I would like to caution others that may read this, that this program is very rarely successful when done without the help of another alcohol ... and 'f to f' meetings are crucial for the majority of us who suffer from this disease ... There is immediate feed-back when we need it most ... and meetings bring up situations and subjects and solutions that help prepare us for each and every day ...
I chose not to go to a meeting one time and my sponsor called me the next day and said: WELL, you missed it! ... ... I asked what did I miss? ... ... He said I don't know, but you sure did! ... ... I said you just told me you went, so weren't you there? ... ... he said yep! ... But I only heard what I was supposed to hear ... NOW ... We'll NEVER know what it was YOU was supposed to hear ... ... ... ...
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Paul, your story sounds similar to mine.I too had big time drug addictions where one day I woke up and was over it, never looked back. My drinking problem has gotten me in trouble in many ways. I was in a puddle of booze for close to 15 years before I woke up and decide I need to and want to quit and fix my life. I am still very new to this, about to hit 4 months, but I have not gone to a meeting yet, I do my readings both in the books and here and I get much support that has helped when I do feel down. So best of luck, but stick around keep us posted, and if you need anything we are here to help.
In AA you can do what ever you want to do, and you can do it for as long as you can stand it. Let us know how that not going to meetings works out for you. Maybe your not alcoholic. Who knows? But if you are, we will still be here for you if you make it back. Most of us die out there.
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
We can't force you to stay, Paul. It's your decision not ours. If you able to recover without the use of A.A. then you've made a choice. And there's nothing wrong with that, okay. Like Tanin said, there are many methods of recovery, but limited sources for sharing -online forums like this one or face to face meetings, you choose. So choose wisely, okay. Your health and welfare should always come first, so keep that in mind while you decide. We're here for you Paul.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Friday 31st of August 2012 03:19:39 AM
Hey Paul..First thing it is said "its really none of our business what other people think of us" Remain in contact with whatever Higher Power you choose and More Will be revealed.I only have my ESH to share and I will tell you that after I began my recovery in"84 ,after 25 years of oblivion,I made meetings for about 4 years until my first Sponsor died(he was mid 80's when he took me under his wing).I eventually drifted away,remaining abstinent but never really reaching recovery,I had put down the poison but didn't get into the exact nature of my disease and how it occurred in all areas of my life.By the time I made it back to the rooms,I was still abstinent but just as sick as when I was using,For me self-sponsorship never worked,kind of hard to see myself coming.Putting the application of the STEPS,worked with my next sponsor into all the areas of my life,a day at a time,helped me to finally have recovery and not just abstinence,really light years apart from each other.There are many roads to recovery and we all have to work our own process.As it has been said,you ,WE, are always welcome here.Remember our third tradition tells us that our only requirement to become a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking. JUST DON'T PICKUP and you won't get high.For me,giving back what was so freely given to me thru meetings ,service,sharing etc help keep me grounded after many years of sobriety.WE all seek to find our own way....May the God of your understanding)even if that is no God at all,keep you free from the monster and guide you in the light.I wish you peace.....
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
It's not a thing you can really just kick when you want. I'd play it safe and keep attending meetings. I dont particulairly liker being at them either but I've attended half a dozen in the last week. You can also do online meetings provided you are an actual aa member but I find the f2f meetings work. If your having a problem with alcohol I'd play it safe and attend meetings to keep helping yourself. I think a lot of people get scared off by the higher power stuff, but I've come to find its spirituality which I had to learn about which is a deeper more meaningful look at yourself and what your life is about and even though Im going through a rough time I am 100% confident that I am much safer and much saner than I was in the years before. Hope you keep coming back, but I cant decide for you.
In AA you can do what ever you want to do, and you can do it for as long as you can stand it. Let us know how that not going to meetings works out for you. Maybe your not alcoholic. Who knows? But if you are, we will still be here for you if you make it back. Most of us die out there.
Quoted because it's true.
It's up to you. If you feel you need what AA offers then it's always there. If you find another way that works for you then good luck with it. All I know is that I need meetings and - sobriety aside - it never hurts to have good friends. Just remember that the door is always open if things get rough out there.
Paul, I (and most of us) wasn't real keen on meetings in my first month or so. I tried doing it on my own, before and after going to meetings, and I continued to relapse. I wasted 2 years going in and out of AA (attending meetings). It wasn't until I did 90 meetings in 90 days, that I got 90 days sober. Do what you want to do, but be honest about the results. Don't BS yourself.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 31st of August 2012 06:35:19 AM
I love meetings and I love fellowship with my friends. They relieve my stresses and make me laugh. They help me to take away the cares of this world and strengthen my heart. I have gained many more productive years because of the fellowship.
Narcotics Anonymous reminds us that alcohol is a drug and cautions that we cannot afford to be confused about this for when we use drugs in any form our disease continues to progress. I mention this piece of wisdom from NA only to point out that you did not walk away from drugs on your own - you replaced one drug with another.
Here's what I have learned along the way: alcohol and drugs are but a symptom of our problem. We didn't start abusing drugs, including alcohol, because we were happy, joyful people. Alcohol is but a symptom of the disease, remove it and we still have the issues that brought on our disease. Typically, people quitting one addiction simply move on to another addiction whether it is replacing crack with alcohol, alcoholism with gambling, gambling with workaholism, etc.
As for your question, 'what if I dont go to the meetings and did this by myself'?' The program is the steps. There are at least two steps that you need another human being to accomplish (steps 5 and 12). Could you stay dry without another person? Possibly. But it would be a stretch to say that you were doing so by working this program. That is not to say that this program is the only way. Anywho - whatever way you decide to give it a go is okay. If not going to face to face meetings works for you - great. If not, the meetings will still be there.
thanks Angell, I thought about this exactly but figured it would sail right over the head of the original poster. Paul you're treating your disease like it's a case of indigestion, whereas if you just stop eating a certain thing then all is well. Why don't you consider telling us about the consequences of your over indulgence. What we call (and the second half of the first step addresses) the unmanageability of our life. This is where we begin to get a clue about about the exact nature of our disease.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 31st of August 2012 01:32:18 PM
If it is shame, avoidance, fear, or unwillingness keeping you from going to face to face meetings, then you might as well be telling your alcoholism "Congrats. You win!" If none of those things is motivating you to avoid meetings, maybe this is an okay way to go about things.
To me, it sounds like the disease influencing your decisions. I remember in early sobriety saying "I didn't even think about drinking until I came to this meeting!" and then I would be kind of pissed. I come to find out that I NEED to think about drinking every day. Actually I need to think about not drinking and sobriety every day or I am at risk of relapse. I need to dedicate some time to recovery daily in order to stay my course. That is just me. For me this comes largely from meetings because those meetings keep me accountable to others. I would have slacked off readings after a few months figuring I read everything.
You might be able to just stop drinking and do readings and stay abstinent. It wouldn't have worked for me.
Furthermore, only being active in "online" recovery is also not wise in my opinion (and I'm allowed to have an opinion). This online stuff is a good supplement but it's not really AA the way I experience it in the rooms. If "soberrecovery.com" or even MIP was a really legit "program" it would not need advertising in these threads because AA functions on attraction and not promotion. If someone told me they were sober because of this site and this site only, I would probably tell them to get their head out of the clouds and go to some meetings. My program developed most from the in person relationships, and in person sponsor/sponsee work I did with with the steps. I'm not ashamed to be an alcholic anymore. Yeah - I hope I can help people here on this board, but I can help them better in meetings. If all of us stayed home and went online or did readings by ourselves as primary means of recovery, who would be left in the rooms when someone comes in with no place to go, no computer, and in desperate need of an actual person? Going to meetings is not just for you, it's for US.
You have 5 days Paul. The person with 4 days needs to see you and hear how you did that. That is just what I've been told and how I've come to believe AA works. Now having spouted all this, I feel like I have to go to a meeting to not be a hypocrite - Hence you did me some good here LOL.
In all seriousness, I hope you go to meetings just to share your recovery and learn even more. There is nothing to say that you can't do all forms of recovery and alcohol is so cunning, baffling, and powerful that I would think you would want to latch on to it rather than just take the least amount you can to stay dry.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I was taught the way we stay sober is by giving it away. And, the best thing to keep me from picking up that first drink is helping another drunk. It can be done, but it like operating a boat with the anchor down.
Narcotics Anonymous reminds us that alcohol is a drug and cautions that we cannot afford to be confused about this for when we use drugs in any form our disease continues to progress. I mention this piece of wisdom from NA only to point out that you did not walk away from drugs on your own - you replaced one drug with another.
Here's what I have learned along the way: alcohol and drugs are but a symptom of our problem. We didn't start abusing drugs, including alcohol, because we were happy, joyful people. Alcohol is but a symptom of the disease, remove it and we still have the issues that brought on our disease. Typically, people quitting one addiction simply move on to another addiction whether it is replacing crack with alcohol, alcoholism with gambling, gambling with workaholism, etc.
As for your question, 'what if I dont go to the meetings and did this by myself'?' The program is the steps. There are at least two steps that you need another human being to accomplish (steps 5 and 12). Could you stay dry without another person? Possibly. But it would be a stretch to say that you were doing so by working this program. That is not to say that this program is the only way. Anywho - whatever way you decide to give it a go is okay. If not going to face to face meetings works for you - great. If not, the meetings will still be there.
Wow - I so needed to hear all of this today! Perfect timing! Excellent thread, and very wonderful posts. Pinkchip - I had that same experience - I thought going to AA just made me think about drinking... and that I had everything under control - and this was just making it worse. But yes - now I see that I needed to think about it - so I could practice thinking about it - and use tools to not act upon it. I still have thoughts of drinking - but now I'm prepared - and I have the tools I learned in AA to keep me from drinking when the inevitable thoughts come. Having thoughts of drinking are just part of the disease. I don't need to be around AA to have them. I'm on vacation right now, and there is a fridge full of beer, and cans and boxes all over the kitchen. Because of AA - I know how to not drink in this situation of constant thoughts of drinking - constant thoughts of my disease minimizing my drinking days - telling me that one weekend of drinking wont kill me - and no one would know etc. I stayed sober yesterday through that, and today - I'm alone in the house while everyone else is out golfing - it's noon (totally acceptable to drink in WI after noon) and I'm sober, happy and content with that. That's thanks to AA.
I would guess Paul, that now that you have almost a week in, you could help someone else already. You know how to find a big book and other resources such as meeting schedules etc. You're already in a position to help someone else.
I'm finding that one of the most wonderful experiences is giving an honest helping hand with no expectations for anything in return. You did that here in this thread for me - and probably others. You may have saved someone's life today, by bringing this topic up, the same thing someone else out there may have been wondering about. They may have chose to attend a meeting today after reading this, instead of drinking themselves *possibly* to the point of death. Never know.
We need each other.
So if you chose to stay or go - we're just hoping you stay sober. You can ALWAYS continue to come to this MIP board... even if you slip, even if you don't participate in anything else. Same thing with AA in person . There are no rules - you only need the DESIRE to stop drinking. The rest is up to you. All you're ever going to hear is "keep coming back". I don't know anyone who stays sober just from online exposure, and that did not work for me (I tried it). That is just my experience. I do know, that anything you do to learn more about the disease is good. So coming here only - is still better than nothing - IN MY OPINION> I could be wrong. I would personally suggest attending meetings, because that's what I found out I need in addition to this. In fact, I needed to attend as many meetings as possible in 90 days, and still attend at least 2 or 3 or more a week. (I am 5 months sober) and came to this message board (and AA) 8 months ago. I too, thought I could just use this - hence, my sobriety date, is not my start date in AA.
So - as much as this MIP board is a life saver for me - it also can't be all there is for me.
Don't think that if you drink you're not welcome. Don't think that if you don't attend as much as the next guy - or speak up as much as the next guy - or speak up more than the next guy - that you're not welcome. Don't think that we will judge you based upon your honest feelings and questions - you're still welcome. Don't think that if you have a bad day and spout off a bit - that you're not welcome. Don't think that if you have a great day and get all overly giddy and silly and goofy - that you're not welcome.
I've done all of the above, and was welcomed. Just be yourself - be honest - "and keep coming back" - they'd say to me. I did - and now I have peace I didn't know could be real.
So keep coming back Paul M. You're always welcome.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Just my experience but if I don't take advantage of meetings I'm missing out on (pg 17), " a fellowship, a friendliness, and an understanding which is indescribably wonderful." There's a peace and sense of serenity that comes along with just seeing and getting to know AA's. Especially when you see people in day-to-day life.
I'm walking through a deparment store around Christmas time last year just having a rough day. I was with my girlfriend and I was in a pissy mood. All the sudden, I make eye contact with a guy in AA whose name I don't know, but only know because I see him at meetings, do I know he's in the program. We smile and nod at each other. It gave me exactly what I needed in that moment by making me think, "Practice these principles in all my affairs", right in that moment. That's something you don't get with working the program without going to meetings and for making my meettings my higher power "spoke" through another member when I was experiencing life on lifes terms.
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Willingness without action is fantasy!
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I often struggle and write out long posts stating what I feel are these really important points...Then I remember it's all been written.
Alcoholics Anonymous - How it works RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.
At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.
Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
Please pay extra note to: **At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.**
and **Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us.**
and **Half measures availed us nothing.**
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Our book tells us AA has no monopoly on God or method of recovery.
To answer your question about people on the site looking down on you, we should/would not, but in consideration of new people who's life or death may depend on attending meetings for recovery, I would suggest not publisizing your method.
Personally I probably tried about every "easier and softer" way to recover even while going to meetings, but they didn't work for me. If my way would have worked, I would have never come to an AA meeting or done any of the service work or steps, but would have missed out on a lot of the friendship and joys of recovery in AA.
I sponsored a guy with a similar story as yours, did heavy drugs in his early years then very later became Alcoholic. At the root he just switched methods of self medicating and never really took the steps needed for lasting recovery.
Regardless of your decisions, keep coming back.
Rob
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Wow, look at all these reply backs, listen everyone, I'm feeling good right now, day 6 Sober, all I can say is I have back up in AA when I start failing, Yes, I do have faults from my drinking, and most of the time its always from the past where it started, I have brought out my troubles and fixed them, some you cant! but you move on, and yes, proud to say that I went from hard drugs to yes, to drinking to cover that up, but it worked for the time being, but now its the booze, no matter what happens, I'm here, if I fail, I'm running to the meetings! LOL!
Thanks for everyone's replies, you all been so helpful here, and understanding, I feel welcomed and here to stay, think we all can work together to help us all stay sober! :)
Wow, look at all these reply backs, listen everyone, I'm feeling good right now, day 6 Sober, all I can say is I have back up in AA when I start failing, Yes, I do have faults from my drinking, and most of the time its always from the past where it started, I have brought out my troubles and fixed them, some you cant! but you move on, and yes, proud to say that I went from hard drugs to yes, to drinking to cover that up, but it worked for the time being, but now its the booze, no matter what happens, I'm here, if I fail, I'm running to the meetings! LOL!
Thanks for everyone's replies, you all been so helpful here, and understanding, I feel welcomed and here to stay, think we all can work together to help us all stay sober! :)
Did I say DAY 6!!!! Whoot!
Hey Paul,
Congrats on the 7 days. Everyone else already said it all, but bottom line is stay close to the program. Like you said, if it does not work, go to meetings. I will tell you this program morphs as you grow. Stay honest with yourself. Are you working the steps?
Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Thanks, Yes Day 7, I had a very productive day today, staying focused, it was great getting out with the wife and kids to the lake, been awhile since we went fishing, felt good, did some grilling when we got back home, family stopped by, never been this busy and enjoyed during it sober , I collect Hockey card's for a Hobby, and the forum I'm at is giving me so much support, Named me August Trader of the Month award! Made my day even sweeter! Tonight I will thank God for giving me strength this week and give pray to everyone here!
Thanks for all the support everyone on my choices, see every on Sunday!
I heard at my 1st meeting "If you don't come to meetings , you won't see what happens to people who don't come to meetings".
So I stay close to meetings . I got sober & went back driving Interstate Semi's here in Australia . I had "the want" to stay sober , I also had "the want"
to go to a lot of meetings , so armed with my State's meeting lists I went back on the 'road' . Kept driving for 15yrs before retiring .
On a holiday to the States in 01 , we booked into our Hotel & went to the nightly meeting at Steamboat Co. People welcomed us 'back' , & it was Great to
meet-up with some old friends from previous hols . One woman was there for her 1st meeting , she was amazed that we had travelled 10,000miles and was
in an AA meeting before we started our holiday . But to be there & say I am a sober alchaholic & travel the world & not pick up the 1st drink & Be Happy
about it . As well as to see previous frinds again is priceless . I love Steamboat Springs Co in Summer .
I will be in Fort Worth/Dallas for a Navy re-union in 3 weeks . Day one of the reunion Pub Crawl . What do I do . Sit grudginly in my hotel room & resent
I can't go Or go & resent I can't drink . I Will get a cab to the Grapevine meeting & stay Happy , Joyous & FREE . I am not fearfull of picking up or resentful
that I can't join 'old shipmates' in a few . My choice is to come & thank people at meetings for giving me this freely so I can Still have this freedom .
May see you at a meeting in my travels to your country .
ps My wife is US/Aussie , so I get Stateside every other year or so , plus th Navy reunion when I can afford it .
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Rick.
@ 37 I was too young & good looking to be an alkie.
still too young , still got th good looks. still n alkie.
