Reeeeee-lapse blah

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Reeeeee-lapse blah

TigressErica · Veteran Member

Pythonpappy wrote:
Yeah, Erica, ... you told us all right ... ... ... But what you told us was simply telling us that you had no intention of stopping at that moment ... You fought the idea of dumping all your stash ... but you did to gain our approval ... and at the very same time, you told yourself that it'll never work ...

I DID tell myself that dumping all my alcohol wouldn't fix the solution because it's too easy to just get more. I dumped my stuff not consciously to gain approval but because I was told to... I was using all of you as the sponsor that my sponsor should probably be... so I took that order even though I knew (or felt) it's mere presence was not causing a temptation for me. Maybe on a deeper level it was to gain approval... I won't rule that out.

I sensed that my sponsor wasn't doing enough... I could tell (somehow) that she was supposed to be doing more with the literature--the 12 and 12 and Big Book.--but she was the only sponsor I had so I thought I'd supplement that by forcing myself to read the Big Book AND to write summaries of what I read to make sure I was understanding it... I was told...on this forum... that that was MY way etc... so I dropped the idea and have so far only really read "The Doctor's Opinion" as that is the only part my sponsor specifically told me to read so far in the 2 or 3 weeks of her being my sponsor.

All she has been doing is calling every 2 or 3 days, asking how I am and if I've been drinking. On the rare days when I hadn't drank, she congratulated me... on the days I did... her main response has always simply been "we're powerless... just keep trying. One day at a time". On the days she doesn't call me, I call her, and always get her voicemail, and on the voicemail I tell how I'm doing that day... often have said things like "I haven't drank yet today but I'm really fighting it" and such.

I'm not trying to bitch about her... I like her and we have a lot in common... it's why I asked her to be my sponsor... I'm just telling it how it is.

I've been to 2 face to face OA meetings and COUNTLESS phone OA meetings and found them to be *identical* except that it didn't cost me gas to get there and I couldn't see their faces. Since OA and AA seem nearly identical... I assumed the same was true with AA so I've only been doing the phone meetings for it... have been doing so daily... but through the shares... I never got a huge impression that I should be doing more... just a feeling that I should... which is why I thought to supplement what my sponsor was doing rather than replacing her...

I posted "My way up the steps" seriously... It wasn't a joke thread... I thought I was doing the steps and was writing out my progress with them. After I wrote it... something in me told me I was being dumb... which is why the first response was me asking people to tell me if I was missing something.

When I found out I'd been doing it all wrong... I honestly don't know why that pushed me over the edge and made me walk 2 blocks to get more vodka. I only got a small bottle because I knew I was being stupid... knew I'd regret it... and knew I'd be dumping most of the bottle after my stupidity.

I've been trying to do the AA program and took every order my sponsor gave me even before she was my sponsor... My first call to her we wound up mostly talking and she told me to get to an AA meeting THAT DAY at any cost. She primarily does phone meetings as well (makes sense... I met her IN a phone meeting!) so she was ok with me going to phone meetings. I took it as an order even though she wasn't my sponsor (yet) the next day I called her, told her how it went because she told me to... and during that 2nd conversation is when I asked if she would be my sponsor, and she agreed.

I've been trying to work the program the only way I had been told. The only order I haven't eventually taken was to get to F2F AA meetings. That "order" was given on here, not by my sponsor. I admit I just dismissed that because I thought they were identical to my phone meetings except that I couldn't see their faces.

There is a reason I'm reluctant to go to F2F meetings... I know my exes new GF is a recovering alcoholic and I'm a little afraid of running into her. She and I do NOT get along...

Ok, enough of more of my whiney excuses. I'll get to a F2F meeting and seek a local sponsor. I promise.

-- Edited by TigressErica on Tuesday 31st of July 2012 06:51:09 PM

TigressErica · Veteran Member

Oh, forgot to add that even though I reluctantly dumped my alcohol and all... that by making almost a ritual out of it, and taking pics of me doing so... that I had finally made a change inside me. I thought I did anyway.

*sulks off with my tiger tail between my legs cry *

-- Edited by TigressErica on Tuesday 31st of July 2012 06:46:08 PM

TigressErica · Veteran Member

Well I went... I think that's FIVE days wasn't it? From Thursday morning to now would be five days I think... damn time was flying!!!

Then I find out I totally wasn't getting the steps AT ALL... and I NEED a stricter sponser... preferably one in the same city or at least STATE that I'm in!!!!

Told ya... even after dumping most of my GOOD vodka and other booze... I can too easily be out buying the strongest vodka there is within 5 minutes and I just did. I'm a disgusting frickin mess. And ya know what... After all those days/hours of not drinking... I THINK it was a clear-headed STUUUUUUPID conscious decision to drink again.

All I can think of is that AT LEAST I managed to go 5 days without a drink on my own will power even though I wasn't doing the steps right... AT ALL!! I didn't understand the steps./.. as you can see in the "Climbing the steps my way" thread. I failed at that and I failed to stay sober today. BLAH!!!!!! *sigh*

So tired of this battle.

I would give in and just BE an alcoholic... but I'm afraid of the damage I'm doing to my liver and brain cells... I truly want to stop!!!!!!!!

I do wish/hope I could come to the day when I could enjoy a casual social drink with friends maybe ONCE a week. PLEASE give me feedback on what people here think of that. After all... food addicts in OA HAVE to learn control and moderation because you can't live without food...s o why can't I get to a stage where I might be able to enjoy a weekly social drink?

This is TOTALLLLY the alcohol talking because I have already given to the seductive mistress Vodka for today... but alcohol makes me more honest... and the honesty is that in the back of my head, I was hoping I could get to a stage when I could once again enjoy a rare social drink. What I did today is NOT a rare social drink since my pathetic ass is at home alone and just took some swigs of vodka. Social drinking is having light-hearted sips of a drink with friends while making jokes and stuff. Big difference.

OBVIOUSLY such a stage, if it is ever possible, would have to come after a long time of complete sobriety; clearing of the mind; and education that the steps can provide which I have clearly NOT been exposed to yet... wtf?

Is any of this making sense in my drunken (actually more like tipsy) stupor?

Dog... I'm too self centered and wallowing in my depression... sorry for creating so many threads all about ME ME ME yawn disbelief cry

I will probably CRASH to sleep now... as I should... I work 3rd shift tonight... so don't interpret lack of immediate response as ignoring or anything... I'll be asleep.

One thing I know is that I'm so dang sick of the DAILY anxiety and BATTLE to not drink!!!!!!!

TigressErica · Veteran Member

I'm so sad and lonely :( and now I'm binging like crazy oon every bit of snack I have in my room... at lleast it's mostly rice cakes and low cal snacks or I'd be in even deeprer depression later...

Angell · Senior Member

TigressErica wrote:
Well I went... I think that's FIVE days wasn't it? From Thursday morning to now would be five days I think... damn time was flying!!!
Then I find out I totally wasn't getting the steps AT ALL... and I NEED a stricter sponser... preferably one in the same city or at least STATE that I'm in!!!!
Getting a sponsor closer to you would probably be a good idea.
Told ya... even after dumping most of my GOOD vodka and other booze... I can too easily be out buying the strongest vodka there is within 5 minutes and I just did. I'm a disgusting frickin mess. And ya know what... After all those days/hours of not drinking... I THINK it was a clear-headed STUUUUUUPID conscious decision to drink again.
I'm not sure about clear headed. If you are an alcoholic and like most of us, there was precious little clear headedness going into five days.
All I can think of is that AT LEAST I managed to go 5 days without a drink on my own will power even though I wasn't doing the steps right... AT ALL!! I didn't understand the steps./.. as you can see in the "Climbing the steps my way" thread. I failed at that and I failed to stay sober today. BLAH!!!!!! *sigh*
The steps are a time proven way to provide relief from active alcoholism but as step twelve begins, "Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps..." It is my experience that we can't rush such an experience, put a time limit on it or will it into existance. Working the steps is a process.
So tired of this battle.
Which might be key. As it is said in the meetigs, "When you are sick and tired of being sick and tired..."
I would give in and just BE an alcoholic... but I'm afraid of the damage I'm doing to my liver and brain cells... I truly want to stop!!!!!!!!
I'm going to assume that you mean, "I would give in and just BE an 'active' alcoholic..."
I do wish/hope I could come to the day when I could enjoy a casual social drink with friends maybe ONCE a week. PLEASE give me feedback on what people here think of that. After all... food addicts in OA HAVE to learn control and moderation because you can't live without food...s o why can't I get to a stage where I might be able to enjoy a weekly social drink?
You are not alone. The big book says, and experience has borne out, that there is no way to turn an alcoholic into a social drinker. Why this is so is not really that important right now and of no use to achieving and maintaining sobriety.
This is TOTALLLLY the alcohol talking because I have already given to the seductive mistress Vodka for today... but alcohol makes me more honest... and the honesty is that in the back of my head, I was hoping I could get to a stage when I could once again enjoy a rare social drink. What I did today is NOT a rare social drink since my pathetic ass is at home alone and just took some swigs of vodka. Social drinking is having light-hearted sips of a drink with friends while making jokes and stuff. Big difference.
Huge difference - agreed.
OBVIOUSLY such a stage, if it is ever possible, would have to come after a long time of complete sobriety; clearing of the mind; and education that the steps can provide which I have clearly NOT been exposed to yet... wtf?
Here's the thing though - as I see it: Assuming that you believe that you are an alcoholic, and assuming that you understand alcoholism, you know that alcoholism is progressive - that it gets worse, never better. Further, understanding that, you might be more inclined to believe that continued active alcoholism leads eventually to nothing but jails, institutions or death. If there are any doubts as to whether or not you are an alcoholic, the diea that faced with jails, institutions or death you are STILL trying to figure out how you can work this in such a way that you can have a drink some day. In fact, most of this post is about trying to figure out how to drink and avoid the consequences (i.e. damage to your liver that you referenced a couple of paragraphs up)
Is any of this making sense in my drunken (actually more like tipsy) stupor?
Yup - you sound like one of us, we are likely to recognize it from our own past thinking.
Dog... I'm too self centered and wallowing in my depression... sorry for creating so many threads all about ME ME ME
No need to be sorry. We can only keep what we have by giving it away and sadly, we also need to remember that it hasn't changed out there and to be reminded of the pain and suffering waiting for us if we choose to pick up again. You are providing a service with this post and I thank you for that. I wish it didn't have to come ast such a price for you - but that's how it works.
I will probably CRASH to sleep now... as I should... I work 3rd shift tonight... so don't interpret lack of immediate response as ignoring or anything... I'll be asleep.
I work third shift tonight too...so ditto and good night.
One thing I know is that I'm so dang sick of the DAILY anxiety and BATTLE to not drink!!!!!!!
There will come a time, if you work this program diligently, when the battle will be won and you simply don't pick up - without a battle.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Don't beat yourself up...Learn from it...Get yourself to some meetings...Get a sponsor...And get going on the program...Most important thing...Dump what you have left and don't drink today!! You can do this!

mikef · MIP Old Timer

Relapse is part of some peoples story!Relapse is not the shame(although anything that can kill you needs to be addressed)the shame is not making it back..Each day you are given by the grace and mercy of THAT Power greater than you,is another opportunity to make that 'EMOTIONAL ACCEPTANCE OF UTTER DEFEAT'.Start again,the Steps are only words unless they are applied in the application and attitudes and behaviors of our lives.They are not merely some printed list or some great thoughts .Glad you made it back,there were many in "my crew" that didn't.Just For Today you don't have to drink.Keep coming back...... smile

Bryan39 · Senior Member

Big book pg 30 "The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death."

sound familiar ? congratulate your self for coming back, get back to some meetings, even before you get a sponsor get some phone numbers and keep posting

God bless

gonee · MIP Old Timer

When I went back after coming in to recovery in AA, I needed 4 months of uninterupted drinking. At the end of that time, I had reached my bottom and walked back into AA myself. I was ready to work the program and listen to my sponsor. I have remained sober ever since. If I do not work the program, my life becomes unmanageable.
If the "great obsession" is not destroyed, it will relentlessly pursue until insanity or death. I have seen it others and I have learned from that experience.
Simple program, but not easy to work on- a price has to be paid.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

I read that book three times before I had a sponsor...Reading that won't hurt you...Go to meetings...As many as possible...Look for someone that works a good program....Ask other people about that person....If it looks like a match....Ask them....Action Erica.....It's a program of action. Don't overthink it and get busy!

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

TigressErica wrote:
All she has been doing is calling every 2 or 3 days, asking how I am and if I've been drinking. On the rare days when I hadn't drank, she congratulated me... on the days I did... her main response has always simply been "we're powerless... just keep trying. One day at a time". On the days she doesn't call me, I call her, and always get her voicemail, and on the voicemail I tell how I'm doing that day... often have said things like "I haven't drank yet today but I'm really fighting it" and such.

I don't know if this tells others what it tells me or not ... but to me, I hear you saying that 'I haven't drank yet' ... ... ... and to me that says I might have something left to do today, but I haven't done it yet ... ... ... Did that make sense ? ... ... ... it's like your thought process is saying that it's inevitable ... I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here, I hope so ... it just seems to me you keep 'shooting yourself in the foot' before you even get out of the gate ...

And the other thing is, I don't see sponsorship 'totally over the phone' working very well ... ... ... You see, in 'face-to-face' meetings and in working with a sponsor, YOU cannot HIDE the TRUTH as well as when you're on the phone ... 'f-to-f' meetings and sponsorship help keep you 'honest' ... and THEY can TELL it ... Plus, I have my sponsees call me twice a day every day for at least the first month ... ... ... I tell them it's their responsibility to get and stay sober, so they must call me ... I don't need to be calling them every day to help keep me sober ...

Hope that helps,

Pappy

rrib · Senior Member

I figure it took me 4 years to 'get' the 1st step.

There was a year when I started going to meetings but didn't really work any of the program but thought I was OK cause i wasn't drinking.

Then 3 years of drinking again until everything fell apart again.

Huh? Powerless? Duh, well, maybe ... I know it sure got unmanageable. And yet, sometimes I still get the idea in my head that I could have a beer. Don't know where it comes from except that cunning,baffling stuff. But at least today, I know I need to play the 'what happens next' tape and 'work' step 1.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

WTH? You should be calling your sponsor. Go to a meeting daily. Work the steps with a sponsor that has worked the steps and with a sponsor that has a sponsor. Aside from that Erica - Most folks relapse on their first forrays into AA. It's not until you plunge in full force that you really get results.

It's not anything to do with your sponsor. If you have the willingness, you will do it. After going to so many meetings, getting busy in service, making so many new friends in the AA fellowship - I then had a life that left me with little time to ponder drinking. All I had to do was make it to the next day to go to another meeting. Heck, I didn't even have to wait that long cuz I would call my sponsor multiple times a day in the first month.

Paging Natasha: I think she can tell you something about coming to terms with how much of a surrender this really requires after finding out the hard way.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

haha - I was just reading your post Mark, and thinking to myself - aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh - if only Miss Tigress could have been here a tad sooner to see me going through this very thing! Mark is completely right - you need to plunge in full force : )

I thought I could just come here, get an online sponsor, barely ever go to meetings, get cured and then live a happy life. Nope - this is a way of life, and it's forever, and it's gotta be in person.

So. You go to any lengths - you do what sober people do - you face those ex whomevers, you face the people who pissed you off at AA the day before, you pray for them, you keep going when you don't want to, especially when you don't want to, you make friends, you lose friends, you watch people who still suffer, and you see how far you've come, you see people who have what you want, you talk to them, you listen to them, you pray for all of them, you keep making it a priority, and you find your home group, you open up to those people, you share about your life before and now, you get scared, you keep going, you get happy, you keep going, you keep your eyes on your own paper, and then you share here with us about it : )

I love you Erica - it's so great to read your posts : ) Keep up the good work - honestly : )

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

TigressErica wrote:

I do wish/hope I could come to the day when I could enjoy a casual social drink with friends maybe ONCE a week. PLEASE give me feedback on what people here think of that. After all... food addicts in OA HAVE to learn control and moderation because you can't live without food...s o why can't I get to a stage where I might be able to enjoy a weekly social drink?

Step one: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

That doesn't mean powerless over it except if we have a quiet drink at Christmas. It doesn't mean powerless as long as we only drink lite beer. It doesn't mean powerless but not if we have a couple of months break and then drink.

It means that we are 100%, no ifs, no buts, never going to change, powerless over alcohol for good. It means that no matter what we do or how we prepare ourselves, if we drink it takes over and our lives become unmanagable.

It's not just a case of saying to yourself 'I have a problem, I screw up a lot, and I'd really like to get control over it'. It's saying and believing completely in every part of you that you understand that it has beaten you. No matter what you do you will never be able to play with alcohol and expect for anything to happen but what it wants. It's keeping in mind at all times that you are petrol and it is fire and under no circumstances is it a good idea to mix the two.

It's the one step you need to get 100% right because if you don't you'll keep finding excuses for a rematch, and it's going to beat you harder and harder every time.

It's about understanding who you really are. If you are alcoholic (your call - not mine) then trying to live like the normals out there is just going to kill you or drive you insane. One you accept who you are then you can embrace the program properly and live a great life just by following some simple suggestions.

But anyway, don't beat yourself up. You're back here and today is a new day.

TigressErica · Veteran Member

I've reread my original post here like 3 times and I keep thinking it doesn't sound like me... I keep wondering if somebody messed with my post... but I doubt it... what would be the point?

I mean... that IS what happened... but it's so weird how I don't remember writing some of the parts of that post and how it doesn't sound like words I would use.

Re-reading yet again. Seriously... this does not sound like my words "OBVIOUSLY such a stage, if it is ever possible, would have to come after a long time of complete sobriety; clearing of the mind; and education that the steps can provide which I have clearly NOT been exposed to yet... wtf?"

Did a mod proofread my drunken typos and whatnot? If not... that is kinda freaking me out that my drunken post sounds like it was written by somebody else once I've gotten the alcohol out of my system...

-- Edited by TigressErica on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 06:25:15 AM

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Also Erica - I'm not calling you crazy but you did describe impulsive stealing, overeating....other issues. You are not the first person to come into AA with outside issues that could be hindering your sobriety. I had to see a therapist and psychiatrist in addition to working a hard core AA program. Not sure if that is the case for you but it's worth a consult to find out. Part of you doing the impulsive things you describe is due to dissociating from yourself and feeling like it's not really you. You probably get that sort of feeling when you steal something too. That feeling can be addictive as well and alcohol has you also dissociating and feeling like you are "not yourself." Hence, my first post you to ever was about impulse control problems that seem to go beyond AA. You can definitely benefit from AA but, again, like I said - many of us need outside help too (including me so don't think I'm judging).

Alcholism was jumbled up in a big messy picture of anxiety, depression, self medicating...it was a symptom of a big amorphous glob of sickness. Not to be too laborious on this point, but I had to get busy working on the solution from multiple angles. AA was the missing piece that has created the largest improvement but the other things (therapy, meds) were necessary for me.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 08:37:37 AM

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Stepchild wrote:
Don't beat yourself up...Learn from it...Get yourself to some meetings...Get a sponsor...And get going on the program...Most important thing...Dump what you have left and don't drink today!! You can do this!

Amen Stepchild. You can do this Tigress. We believe in you.

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

erica, thanks for doing a bit more research for us. Does it hurt enough yet? when it hurts menough, and it only has to hurt enough for you, then you'll have the window of oppertunity and the gift of desperation to stop fighting the booze and say the hell with you, you won, I'm not fighting any more, I'm not getting in the ring with vodka anymmore.

You'll hit the meetings, find a face to face sponsor and build a new life.

Some of us have to keep going out until we really understand that we are powerless over alcohol, some of us hit that point in a flash after years of boozing.

Sometimes a relapse can be the kick start your recovery needs.

It's coming on for 6 years since I lifted my last drink. Sometimes i've made continued sobriety a challenge, hard work, but it was me that made it hard. I enjoy my sobriety now, but it's not a straightjacket anymore, I wear my sobrioety like a comfy cardigan. A nice place to be, it doesn't stop me from doing ANYTHING that I want to do.

TigressErica · Veteran Member

pinkchip wrote:
I had to see a therapist and psychiatrist in addition to working a hard core AA program. Not sure if that is the case for you but it's worth a consult to find out.

My doctor had the receptionist schedule me for a psychiatric evaluation ASAP because of my recent major impulsive/compulsive actions since she was kinda guessin g and medicating but she apparantly she decided my reactions were just too much to keep guessing and throwing meds at me to see how it effected me and to get official diagnoseses... she also felt that a psych eval would help me in court which is why she was trying to get it scheduled ASAP... whe the receptionist called to tell me where they were referring me to (based on who my insurance would cover, and soonest appointmenmt available) it turned out to be AFTER my court date. I could have cancelled saying it would be too late to help my court case any... but I figured this would be a good thing despite all the fines/fees/bills pilinjg up and this being something to add to that.

My therapist suspects I may be bipolar or something... and I seriously don't want confirmation of even more mental problems... but I'm going with the flow.... The psych appointment is on the 7th and can't come soon enough...

-- Edited by TigressErica on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 09:48:35 AM

chris · Senior Member

I can only tell you what worked for me. I didn't do anything beyond the first 3 steps for the first 2 or 3 years of my sobriety. There are people who feel you need to immediately do all the steps, that was not going to work for me. What I did do was go to tons and tons of meetings, got a coffee job, got a treasurer's job, got a secretary's job and listened and got to know the people in the meetings I went to. I completely changed my life (which wasn't hard, all I did was drink at home) and grew attachments to these fellow alcoholics who saved my life.

I also see an outside therapist for some other issues I have. A few years ago I ran into my next door neighbor, who I don't get along with, at one of my regular meeting. I just approached her and said I am so glad to see you here, and gave her a hug. I also spoke to her after the meeting and said please don't stop coming because of me, we all want you to get well. She didn't end up staying, but I am still sober.

AA is an easy program for complicated people. You have to want it more than anything else in your life. Best of luck

-- Edited by chris on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 11:15:59 AM

happycamper · MIP Old Timer

I am living proof that internet sponsorship does work. My sponsor and I worked the steps via the computer, emailing, instant messenging and the telephone. We were able to meet f2f a couple different times while residing in different states that are hundreds of miles apart.

However ... this did NOT work until I became as willing as the dying can be and I had finally came to the stunning conclusion that booze was in fact going to kill me if I didnt stop drinking. It was then and only then that I became willing to do whatever it took to get and stay sober ... one day at a time.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

chris wrote:
I can only tell you what worked for me. I didn't do anything beyond the first 3 steps for the first 2 or 3 years of my sobriety. There are people who feel you need to immediately do all the steps, that was not going to work for me. What I did do was go to tons and tons of meetings, got a coffee job, got a treasurer's job, got a secretary's job and listened and got to know the people in the meetings I went to. I completely changed my life (which wasn't hard, all I did was drink at home) and grew attachments to these fellow alcoholics who saved my life.

...

I was very slow in doing steps. Or at least I didn't think I was nearly as fast as many others, some of whom touted how fast they completed the steps. It took a terrifcally long time for me to feel comfortable with the pace of my step-taking. But, like you, I did other major things to be and stay connected to AA, the fellowship, AAers, the literature, the service structure, and meetings. Somehow, it worked out. I feel that AA worked for me and that probably (though not certainly) nothing else would have worked for me.

I think three is often a lot of pressure on some, not all, newcomers by the more AA vocal members. This sets up expectations that may be difficult to meet by some, not all, newbies. How long it takes for someone to go through the steps is . . . how long it takes. I've seen people do it in a weekend and I remember one guy who hadn't completed them after 27 years sobriety. The guys who did them fast always got praised. The guys who took some time got, uhm, encouraged or nagged to wrap it up. The guy who had 27 years didn't get nagged, as he was a forceful personality. But people talked about it behind his back and would out him at meetings when he wasn't there. I heard one guy even say in a meeting, I swear to God he said it; "I don't want what [name] has!" I didn't say a word. It took me a long time to figure out how terribly wrong that was.

AAers differ on how long the steps take. Even people here on MIP differ on that issue. Just do a search on: how long steps

Here's just one:

http://aa.activeboard.com/t47200174/how-long-does-it-take-to-work-the-steps/

chris wrote:
...
AA is an easy program for complicated people. You have to want it more than anything else in your life. Best of luck

Agreed.

Progress, not perfection. Quality, not quantity.

Substance, not shibboleths. Thoroughness, not checking off the boxes.

-- Edited by Tanin on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 01:03:11 PM

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

TigressErica wrote:
Did a mod proofread my drunken typos and whatnot? If not... that is kinda freaking me out that my drunken post sounds like it was written by somebody else once I've gotten the alcohol out of my system...

I've said things in meetings before and people have told me after...That was a great share...And I don't remember a word of what I said. Who knows where that comes from...I don't ask. I know what I don't know....And I admit it.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Tanin, now you are really just stirring up crap. It's my experience. At least I talk about my recovery. I share from the heart. Do you think it makes me feel superior to admit I had serious issues with depression and had to take meds and go to a therapist? It was painful and sharing that exprience was done in hopes that Erica will seek help from multiple sources if needed. I really hope you are getting something out of MIP. Prayers for you. Perhaps a job, a relationship...I don't know what is missing from your life but I do hope you find the answers to your problems. For real cuz now I'm just feeling sorry for you.

I'm sorry if I offended you in previous posts. I did make nasty statments and they were wrong. If you ever feel like opening up about whatever is really causing your negavity or what character defects are driving the behavior....feel free.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 01:44:28 PM

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Good for you Erica...I think that's a smart move.....You going to try and get to a meeting today?

TigressErica · Veteran Member

Stepchild wrote:
You going to try and get to a meeting today?

Yeah at 6pm... Picked one somewhat further from home than I would like so as to not run into the girl I'd rather not run into... at least not at my first f2f AA meeting!

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Good...Do what you got to do! I want a full report when you get done!!

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

pinkchip wrote:
Also Erica - I'm not calling you crazy but you did describe impulsive stealing, overeating....other issues. You are not the first person to come into AA with outside issues that could be hindering your sobriety. I had to see a therapist and psychiatrist in addition to working a hard core AA program. Not sure if that is the case for you but it's worth a consult to find out. Part of you doing the impulsive things you describe is due to dissociating from yourself and feeling like it's not really you. You probably get that sort of feeling when you steal something too. That feeling can be addictive as well and alcohol has you also dissociating and feeling like you are "not yourself." Hence, my first post you to ever was about impulse control problems that seem to go beyond AA. You can definitely benefit from AA but, again, like I said - many of us need outside help too (including me so don't think I'm judging).
...

Seems like I've noticed this style of comment before here on MIP and would like to gently comment on it. It's a directive style. With a lot of "you" occurences. It seems intentional, and that is why I note it. Just doesn't seem right, and probably not effective.

I noticed it in the post you just referred to. Ah, here it is.

pinkchip wrote:
You don't need a drink. You are playing with fire drinking before and during work. It does sound like you could benefit from this AA program. However, you are describing global problems with impulse control that overstep (but do include) addiction. Not sure if you can handle taking xanax as prescribed..... I would meet with your psychiatrist (presuming that is where you go the xanax and not a family doctor) and discuss how impulse control is really the issue here. It is a theme running through all the "problems" you mentioned. There may be a better med or set of meds for you.

...

Yep, same "you,you,you" tack. Reminds me of the wording of How It Works and Into Action in the final multilith draft of the BB. ("Half measures will avail you nothing.";You may think you can find an easier softer way. We doubt if you can." ;"If you are not convinced on these vital issues, you ought to re-read the book to this point or else throw it away!";"Are you now perfectly ready to let God remove from you all the things which you have admitted are objectionable?," etc.)

Most, of that directive style was elminated from the BB and changed to a more welcoming informative/descriptive style. The amount removed was extensive and done after much consideration and consultation by AAers, and academic /psychology experts.

Seems like that directive style is still appealing to some, though. I'm fairly sure that's not good.

I'm assuming all the medical diagnosis stuff is correct, BTW. Sounds plausible. Comes across pretty authoritative.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

I'll tell you what Tanin....I sure don't want what you have.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Tanin wrote:
pinkchip wrote:
This is not a big book board. This is not a meeting. This is a discussion board where people come often times for suggestions and hence, the responses are going to be given in the form of 'YOU" No, I would not talk this way to folks at a meeting. I am much more direct here. It's probably not near as effective as what someone would experience at a meeting. I do get spoken to with plenty of "you's" by my sponsor and that's because I appeal to my sponsor for suggestion and even to this board sometimes.

I know on the alanon board they are much more trained to say "In my experience this has worked for me...." In AA, pussyfooting around never much helped me...though I agree there are more tactful ways to say things.

Had you just asked the question like this?

"Pinkchip, do what do you think about just sharing your experience and leaving it up to them to form conclusions. Do you think direct suggestions are going to intimidate and drive away folks? Just wondering?"

That is not what you said though. Yet again you picked out my posts, bolded them and came off attacking. I think just about everyone here would agree with that. I would question more of your own style of "helping" people. Perhaps talk to your sponsor about it. If you have one.
PC, what are the words in my prior two posts above that you deem "attacking?"

Tanin you were obviously and openly critical of PC's writing style in a, let's say, passive aggressive manner. This board is like a big family. It's not a place to anonymously go and take shots at other members within 2 weeks of joining the board. Why don't you take some time to get to know people here. Then, if you're genuinely concerned about someone's writing style, feelings or sobriety, send them a personal message. It is generally accepted forum Etiquette to take disagrements to the personal message level. Mark, I'd appreciate it if you would head this as well. Thanks

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 07:18:40 PM

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

I think what really matters when working the steps is not so much speed, but rather, one's attitude ... Until I worked the steps with the right attitude, they didn't do 'diddly' for me ... Oh sure, I worked the steps the first time through, and the second time, AND the third ... AND I still couldn't stay sober a year ... Kept trying over and over and over for 13 years ... NO GOOD ...

When I changed my ATTITUDE and became 'willing', then I worked the steps as if my life depended on it, and I damn sure took my time to be sure I left nothing out, I mean nada, nothing, zip, zero ... ... I couldn't afford to go back out any more ... I hung on to this program as only the dying will do ... one mistake for me meant certain death ...

So I don't give a rat's butt how long you take to work the steps, just do it ... and if you fall down on your ass, get back up and try it again, over and over and over til you get it right ... you're going to die anyway, might as well be trying to get and stay sober ... AND don't forget, some of us ARE SICKER than others, so give us a break, 1st time isn't always a charm ...

Lighten up a bit!!!

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

For me...Doing the steps meant thoroughly following the path..The path was what that book laid out. I don't see anything in there about taking three years to do this thing...I'm speaking for myself...I wouldn't have lasted that long with untreated alcoholism....I just wouldn't have made it. I guess you can debate this till the cows come home...This is just my experience.

With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start.

Next we launched out on a course of vigorous action,

this step may be postponed, only, however, if we hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through with it at the first opportunity.

Returning home we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour, carefully reviewing what we have done.

When ready, we say something like this:

Now we need more action, without which we find that "Faith without works is dead." Let's look at Steps Eight and Nine. We have a list of all persons we have harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory.

If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. Remember it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol.

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development,

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

pinkchip wrote:
Tanin wrote:
pinkchip wrote:
Also Erica - I'm not calling you crazy but you did describe impulsive stealing, overeating....other issues. You are not the first person to come into AA with outside issues that could be hindering your sobriety. I had to see a therapist and psychiatrist in addition to working a hard core AA program. Not sure if that is the case for you but it's worth a consult to find out. Part of you doing the impulsive things you describe is due to dissociating from yourself and feeling like it's not really you. You probably get that sort of feeling when you steal something too. That feeling can be addictive as well and alcohol has you also dissociating and feeling like you are "not yourself." Hence, my first post you to ever was about impulse control problems that seem to go beyond AA. You can definitely benefit from AA but, again, like I said - many of us need outside help too (including me so don't think I'm judging).
...
Seems like I've noticed this style of comment before here on MIP and would like to gently comment on it. It's a directive style. With a lot of "you" occurences. It seems intentional, and that is why I note it. Just doesn't seem right, and probably not effective.
I noticed it in the post you just referred to. Ah, here it is.
pinkchip wrote:
You don't need a drink. You are playing with fire drinking before and during work. It does sound like you could benefit from this AA program. However, you are describing global problems with impulse control that overstep (but do include) addiction. Not sure if you can handle taking xanax as prescribed..... I would meet with your psychiatrist (presuming that is where you go the xanax and not a family doctor) and discuss how impulse control is really the issue here. It is a theme running through all the "problems" you mentioned. There may be a better med or set of meds for you.

...
Yep, same "you,you,you" tack. Reminds me of the wording of How It Works and Into Action in the final multilith draft of the BB. ("Half measures will avail you nothing.";You may think you can find an easier softer way. We doubt if you can." ;"If you are not convinced on these vital issues, you ought to re-read the book to this point or else throw it away!";"Are you now perfectly ready to let God remove from you all the things which you have admitted are objectionable?," etc.)
Most, of that directive style was elminated from the BB and changed to a more welcoming informative/descriptive style. The amount removed was extensive and done after much consideration and consultation by AAers, and academic /psychology experts.
Seems like that directive style is still appealing to some, though. I'm fairly sure that's not good.
I'm assuming all the medical diagnosis stuff is correct, BTW. Sounds plausible. Comes across pretty authoritative.

Tanin, now you are really just stirring up crap. It's my experience. At least I talk about my recovery. I share from the heart. Do you think it makes me feel superior to admit I had serious issues with depression and had to take meds and go to a therapist? It was painful and sharing that exprience was done in hopes that Erica will seek help from multiple sources if needed. I really hope you are getting something out of MIP. Prayers for you. Perhaps a job, a relationship...I don't know what is missing from your life but I do hope you find the answers to your problems. For real cuz now I'm just feeling sorry for you.
I'm sorry if I offended you in previous posts. I did make nasty statments and they were wrong. If you ever feel like opening up about whatever is really causing your negavity or what character defects are driving the behavior....feel free.

PC, focus:

Descriptive vs. Directive styles

Revised language in the Big Book vs. your language in the posts above.

Can you comment on these two concepts?

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

This is not a big book board. This is not a meeting. This is a discussion board where people come often times for suggestions and hence, the responses are going to be given in the form of 'YOU" No, I would not talk this way to folks at a meeting. I am much more direct here. It's probably not near as effective as what someone would experience at a meeting. I do get spoken to with plenty of "you's" by my sponsor and that's because I appeal to my sponsor for suggestion and even to this board sometimes.

I know on the alanon board they are much more trained to say "In my experience this has worked for me...." In AA, pussyfooting around never much helped me...though I agree there are more tactful ways to say things.

Had you just asked the question like this?

"Pinkchip, do what do you think about just sharing your experience and leaving it up to them to form conclusions. Do you think direct suggestions are going to intimidate and drive away folks? Just wondering?"

That is not what you said though. Yet again you picked out my posts, bolded them and came off attacking. I think just about everyone here would agree with that. I would question more of your own style of "helping" people. Perhaps talk to your sponsor about it. If you have one.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

pinkchip wrote:
This is not a big book board. This is not a meeting. This is a discussion board where people come often times for suggestions and hence, the responses are going to be given in the form of 'YOU" No, I would not talk this way to folks at a meeting. I am much more direct here. It's probably not near as effective as what someone would experience at a meeting. I do get spoken to with plenty of "you's" by my sponsor and that's because I appeal to my sponsor for suggestion and even to this board sometimes.

I know on the alanon board they are much more trained to say "In my experience this has worked for me...." In AA, pussyfooting around never much helped me...though I agree there are more tactful ways to say things.

Had you just asked the question like this?

"Pinkchip, do what do you think about just sharing your experience and leaving it up to them to form conclusions. Do you think direct suggestions are going to intimidate and drive away folks? Just wondering?"

That is not what you said though. Yet again you picked out my posts, bolded them and came off attacking. I think just about everyone here would agree with that. I would question more of your own style of "helping" people. Perhaps talk to your sponsor about it. If you have one.

PC, what are the words in my prior two posts above that you deem "attacking?"

TigressErica · Veteran Member

TigressErica wrote:
ME ME ME

Tanin wrote:
"you,you,you"

Tit for tat... it's all good.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

What is attacking? I know what I post. Reposting and bolding parts of it worse than cross talks. It's parroting and actively mocking someone for what they have stated. Yeah it is just a message board and not a meeting so the cross talk is gonna happen. Heck, I have reposted other's posts to make a point but I don't do it in a mocking way like that. If you don't like what I say...then leave it. If you like it then take it. You didn't just do that to me but to Stepchild too. I've been around this board for a bit...That doesn't make me better or worse than anyone. I can take the nastiness cuz I have a few 24 hours.... Stepchild is someone that came here and then just came back with over a year sobriety. He's really doing his best to do 12th step work and you did the same act on him trying to portray him like an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about. That is about the same as watching someone get their 1 year medallion, hearing what they did to get the year and then ripping everything they said. It's hateful.

Also, who are you to judge if the way I try and help people is "effective" or not? Who made you God? I have admitted my faults. I'm not perfect. Even in one post where I did admit lots of my faults you still bolded that and then replied quoted for truth. What about you? What about your recovery? What is your program made up of? I have yet to hear anything. It would be easier to tolerate your abrasiveness if I at least knew you had a real program of recovery in place.

Why don't you make an introductory thread and let us get to know you better?