We are searching for the "timeless time", that moment when time stops, we aren't thinking of the future (fear) or the past (resentment/hurt/abandonment), there is a reason that liquor stores say they sell "Wines and Spirits", because a spiritual experience is what we seek, whether it be through sex or drama or relationships or drugs or alcohol.

Alcoholism is a crude and imperfect spiritual longing, for fulfillment, to fill that void, to be happy, or just numb, try reading the ninth step promises like this:

 

 (when we are drunk) We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

    (when we are drunk) We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.

     (when we are drunk) We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

     (when we are drunk) No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

     (when we are drunk) That feeling of uselessness and self pity will disappear.

     (when we are drunk) We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.

    (when we are drunk) Self-seeking will slip away.

     (when we are drunk) Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.

     (when we are drunk) Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.

     (when we are drunk) We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.

    We will suddenly realize that alcohol is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

So when we come to AA we come searching, searching to fill that hole, that void, but we come to learn, just like anyone else who comes seeking a spiritual answer, or anyone who goes on a journey to find "God", what we come searching for, we come searching with, we have everything we need already, we just need to learn how to access it, hence after working the first nine steps we come to those promises, other before it, and the others that follow, and we don't nee to put " (when we are drunk)" in front of our happiness and fulfillment any more, we look inside and find we are complete, we don't go looking for outside stuff to fix our insides, we fix our insides and our outsides take care of themselves.

I am not religious in any way shape or form, I believe in no deity and subscribe to no religions, yet I have the utter faith of either the truly stupid or one who has seen so much overwhelming evidence, that doubt isn't even an option....everything will be ok if I just do these few simple things, everything will fall into place if I just follow a few simple guidelines, in step one I learned I wasn't management material, the following 11 steps teach me what is, it's hard to explain, but therein lies freedom.

-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Tuesday 8th of May 2012 02:15:08 AM

I've often wondered the same thing. I hoped I'd find it in AA, but in all honesty I still feel like I'm looking for something.

So for now I'll just take the relief I feel after each meeting.

Thanks for sharing.

justadrunk wrote:

---

Am I getting to cocky here?  Is this being too picky... taking words too literally... thinking I know more than what I do?  Am I getting arrogant, egotistical?  Or am I using the program how it should be used?

---

 

I was told early on to try not to overthink things because my brain wasn't my friend. Go to meetings, do the steps, worry about your own recovery and not others and don't be too hard on yourself. It helped. When I wander off that path things seem to get harder than they need to be.

The other thing that really helped was being told that regarding advice to use what is working for me, and what didn't work for me I should just put aside until it made sense later down the track. That stopped me stressing over the tonne of information I was getting. Somethings that make no sense at all at 3 months made a hell of a lot of sense at 6 months or a year or now. Other stuff still is murky but it'll come with time and experience, I guess.

Tipsy: You're right in thinking I'm thinking about what others are thinking. I do now feel sad for these people, and immediately do a quick prayer for them in my mind as I sit and listen to them hoping. Taking inventory? Probably not, just empathy right now. But then I feel bad for maybe thinking I'm doing better than them... and I get confused about how I should be thinking and if I'm feeling the right things.

Thanks to everyone who responded, that made a lot of sense.

Thanks Mark

Hi Tasha.

I had a little concern of the word fear being used so often in our meetings, Well most of the time ! And from members well into old timers years. I related my fears to my early days and my fears of picking up another drink. But often the sharing was about fears of so many little things in life. One night I mentioned in my share that perhaps I am very fortunate that I no longer feel fearful but sometimes get a little worried about things.

Maybe this helped a newcomer of a few months because they too stated that they did not want to get fearful over maybe a little worry.And commented that I had helped them put things into perspective.

I trust in the God of my understanding and if in the future I become fearful it maybe because I am loosing a little trust, and this is something I believe I will constantly work on. Handing my will and my life over to the care of my God. In his hands I remain safe.

You are so very right in the fact that you say you will remain sober if you WORK FOR IT :} I looked something up on hope....and I '' hope it helps '' :} lol.

Hope is a desire for something to happen, while expecting or being confident that it will come true. Hope also implies a certain amount of perseverance, believing that something is possible even when there is some evidence to the contrary. Hope may be directed toward something minor or towards something extremely significant. "False hope" is hoping for something that is extremely unlikely or unrealistic. Hope quotes describe the possibility of certain chance of an event or a happening to take place in your life. These quotes may inspire the people to hold their lives with full spirit with a hope that their life would take a positive turn and all the sadness from their lives would be gone. Hope is the only virtue that makes you sail through even in your worst period of life.,,,,

Man needs, for his happiness, not only the enjoyment of this or that, but hope and enterprise and change.

We don't seem to realize that a poor person who is unhappy is in a better position than a rich person who is unhappy. Because the poor person has hope. He thinks money would help.

Ah, Hope! what would life be, stripped of thy encouraging smiles, that teach us to look behind the dark clouds of to-day, for the golden beams that are to gild the morrow.

Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: You don't give up.

I guess I am truly grateful that today I am able to live on life terms. And my hope is that all who walk into the rooms of AA are willing and able to work a program for living into each and every day of their lives. :}

If you talk with these people you maybe able to guide them in the direction of finding and trusting a God of their understanding. I pray you do. :}

Great going Tasha,very proud of you too.:}

Polly.X

StPeteDean wrote:

---

For an alcoholic, drinking is mental masturbation. We take our brain (and feelings) to the amusement part. I't titillation plain and simple. We are people who want to do what pleases us every moment of the day. We want immediate gratification and constant feedback (Validation) on everything. Through in some people pleasing and approval seeking for good measure. I was unhappy, and didn't know it. I did not know how to be happy. I lived for the future. I made statements like "I'll be happy when This (or that) happens". Of course when it did, I didn't know how to be happy in the present, so it didn't make me happy, and it was off to the next future event. So in the mean time I engaged in pleasure seeking. I tried to string along enough pleasureable events to construction a continuim of fake happiness. On trouble is that pleasureable activities end and depression sets in. Where as true happiness doesn't end. Drinking smoothed out the rough edges of this soap opera, for awhile.

---

 There it is, our "operating system" switches to an "if only this then that" based system where if these things fall into place, if only people would behave like we wanted, if we could only get these material possessions, if only our significant others would behave, we'd be happy, and as we pursue that line of thinking and it continues to get worse by our own actions it spirals ever downward, Sobriety is learning how to be content with the "what is" rather then the "what if's"

That is why every newcomer who walks through the door suffers from "personal exceptionalism", otherwise known as "terminal uniqueness", it takes many of us many years to overcome this serious handicap, along with over-sensitivity and delusional and self centered thinking. Many times we replace our alcohol addictions with addictions to relationships, working out, work, going to meetings, replacing unhealthy addictions with "healthy" ones, only to find out we spent years climbing the ladder only to find out we had it leaning against the wrong wall. Our journey is our journey, one we are going to take regardless of advice, but one of the things I learned to do was at least go to the old timers and ask "OK, what now?", as in "what mistakes can I look forward to making to the next ten years?" because I -will- make them, I have learned that, I learned "more will be revealed", and I learned what they meant when they wrote "alcohol was but a symptom", it means for me alcohol wasn't "my problem", alcohol was my solution, so I had to get sober, clear up the wreckage of the past and the present, and -then- begin work on what "my problem" was, which was frankly a disfunctional relationship with myself and the world around me.

Link

Addiction means always having to say you are sorry à and finally, when being sorry is no longer good enough for others who have been repeatedly hurt by the addiction, addiction often means being sorry all alone.

Addiction is often said to be a disease of denial à but it is also a disease of regret. When the addictive process has lasted long enough and penetrated deeply enough into the life and mind of the addict, the empty space left by the losses caused by progressive, destructive addiction is filled up with regrets, if-onlys and could-have-beens. In early addiction the addict tends to live in the future; in middle and late addiction he begins to dwell more and more in the past. And it is usually an unhappy, bitterly regretted past.

The first casualty of addiction, like that of war, is the truth. At first the addict merely denies the truth to himself. But as the addiction, like a malignant tumor, slowly and progressively expands and invades more and more of the healthy tissue of his life and mind and world, the addict begins to deny the truth to others as well as to himself. He becomes a practiced and profligate liar in all matters related to the defense and preservation of his addiction, even though prior to the onset of his addictive illness, and often still in areas as yet untouched by the addiction, he may be scrupulously honest.

First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks.

Because addiction by definition is an irrational, unbalanced and unhealthy behavior pattern resulting from an abnormal obsession, it simply cannot continue to exist under normal circumstances without the progressive attack upon and distortion of reality resulting from the operation of its propaganda and psychological warfare brigades. The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict must be justified and rationalized so that the addiction can continue and progress.

One of the chief ways the addiction protects and strengthens itself is by a psychology of personal exceptionalism which permits the addict to maintain a simultaneous double-entry bookkeeping of addictive and non-addictive realities and to reconcile the two when required by reference to the unique, special considerations that àat least in his own mind- happen to apply to his particular case.

The form of the logic for this personal exceptionalism is:

• Under ordinary circumstances and for most people X is undesirable/irrational;

• My circumstances are not ordinary and I am different from most people;

• Therefore X is not undesirable/irrational in my case - or not as undesirable/irrational as it would be in other cases.

Armed with this powerful tool of personal exceptionalism that is a virtual "Open Sesame" for every difficult ethical conundrum he is apt to face, the addict is free to take whatever measures are required for the preservation and progress of his addiction, while simultaneously maintaining his allegiance to the principles that would certainly apply if only his case were not a special one.

In treatment and rehabilitation centers this personal exceptionalism is commonly called "terminal uniqueness." The individual in the grip of this delusion is able to convince himself though not always others that his circumstances are such that ordinary rules and norms of behavior, rules and norms that he himself concurs with when it comes to other people, do not fairly or fully fit himself at the present time and hence must be bent or stretched just sufficiently to make room for his special needs. In most cases this plea for accommodation is acknowledged to be a temporary one and accompanied by a pledge or plan to return to the conventional "rules of engagement" as soon as circumstances permit. This is the basic mindset of "IÇll quit tomorrow" and "If you had the problems I do youÇd drink and drug, too!"

The personal exceptionalism of the addict, along with his willingness to lie both by commission and omission in the protection and furtherance of his addiction, place a severe strain upon his relationships with others. It does not usually take those who are often around the addict long to conclude that he simply cannot be believed in matters pertaining to his addiction. He may swear that he is clean and sober and intends to stay that way when in fact he is under the influence or planning to become so at the first opportunity; he may minimize or conceal the amount of substance consumed; and he may make up all manner of excuses and alibis whose usually transparent purpose is to provide his addiction the room it requires to continue operating.

One of the most damaging interpersonal scenarios occurs when the addict, usually as the consequence of some unforeseen crisis directly stemming from his addiction, promises with all of the sincerity at his command to stop his addictive behavior and never under any circumstances to resume it again.

"I promise," the addict pleads, sometimes with tears in his eyes. "I know I have been wrong, and this time I have learned my lesson. YouÇll never have to worry about me again. It will never happen again!"

But it does happen again à and again, and again, and again. Each time the promises, each time their breaking. Those who first responded to his sincere sounding promises of reform with relief, hope and at times even joy soon become disillusioned and bitter.

Spouses and other family members begin to ask a perfectly logical question: "If you really love and care about me, why do you keep doing what you know hurts me so badly?" To this the addict has no answer except to promise once again to do better, "this time for real, youÇll see!" or to respond with grievances and complaints of his own. The question of fairness arises as the addict attempts to extenuate his own admitted transgressions by repeated references to what he considers the equal or greater faults of those who complain of his addictive behavior. This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "IÇm not hurting anybody but myself!" He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused that hurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do!

After dealing with that (that alcohol part of the equation) for some years, we then frequently encounter this: (more will be revealed)

Link

After seeing hundreds of clients and looking at patterns of behavior, family of origin relational trauma issues, and addiction problems, it became apparent that early relational trauma sets up dysfunctional adult relational issues. There are two inter-relating issues, one is in the relationship with self and the other is in the relationship with others. The relationship with self presents five primary problems that lead to adult intimacy issues:

• First the client has trouble having a sense of self, spending much of his or her life living in reaction to the object of their affection rather than in action for the self. This is the reality issue; it causes the client to feel empty inside and causes the client to endlessly blame others for how he feels emotionally or for what he has done.
• Second, the client does not experience inherent worth. He gauges his sense of value through a process of endless comparison to others, and is too dependent on others to establish either a sense of value or self. This interferes with his ability to maturely love others. He generally can hold another person in warm regard only when the other is behaving "properly," or when he has created a comfortable fantasy about the other person and uses denial to avoid looking at the other's disturbing behavior.
• Third, the client has no personal boundary system with which to protect and contain himself during intimate exchange. This leads to abusive behavior on his part and involves control and manipulation, raging, ridiculing, lying and/or a high tolerance for this type of behavior in a partner.
• The fourth problem involves poor self-care, leading to dependency and interdependency problems in a relationship.
• The fifth problem deals with living in the extreme. This is usually exhibited by a lack of moderation in attitude and behavior, which leads to a sense of deadness and/or chaos in a relationship.

Childhood trauma

It is evident that problems with the "self" lead to intimacy issues. The next question concerns where these problems developed. It appears that childhood trauma sets up several core issues. For example, if a child is not maturely loved by his parents, he will develop self-esteem issues. If he is not protected and taught containment, he will develop boundary problems. If he is forced to do too much adapting, he will lose his sense of self and have trouble being real. If he is not taught to take care of his basic needs and wants, he will have difficulty doing this as an adult. And, if he is severely shamed into containing himself and not taught containment, he will have trouble establishing moderation in his adult life.

Both trauma and core issues drive addictions, be it addiction to substances, processes, or to other people. Trauma, core issues, and addictions create severe relational problems where sex, love, and relational matters all seem to become entwined. Knowing where to start is the first step in treatment.

The starting point, love addiction

Alcohol or drug addictions should be addressed first and foremost. The client must have the ability to think and feel without a mood altering substance. Subsequently, the primary behavioral addiction to be considered is love addiction. A Love Addict has been traumatized in childhood by being neglected or abandoned by either of his parents. The child who suffers from neglect or abandonment learns three toxic ideas from this trauma:

• In a relationship he is worth less than his partner. This kind of trauma is extremely shaming and relationally he will assume a victim posture allowing his partner to be abusive. He will see the partner as a higher power and will literally worship them, giving him a feeling of helplessness, resulting in a lack of self-esteem. The Love Addict does not esteem himself in the relationship, therefore the partner will often assume a position of disrespect and relate out of duty, not love.
• He needs a partner to take care of him. He believes that he cannot take care of himself and demonstrates poor self-care skills, therefore the partner will feel the Love Addict is a burden.
• If he does not get close enough to the partner he will not survive. This client believes that he cannot leave a partner because if he did, he would die. Therefore, the client will exercise no personal boundaries resulting in the partner feeling suffocated and victimized.

Tasha, I was happy to learn, the way our memory works, when synapses (threads) bond to each other to form a memory. Each time we remember a memory, we strengthen it. If we exagerate it, we change it. If we compare the memory to another current event, we bond those two memories to each other, changing it again. Once we understand this, we know that we alter memories though these means, we learn that we can alter them otherwise, in a positive way. When an unpleasent memory (a resentment or fear) comes to mind, we can say, "It wasn't that bad, I survived", or "it was just a life lesson and nothing more", or "this is what good came of that". And put the memory away, now changed in a positive slant. Or we can say to ourselves, "that's the past and I'm not going to go there". The memory will weaken over time, if we don't keep pulling it out. The opposite of this is take out this perhaps traumatic memory of an event and dramatize, wallowing through the negative emotions, reliving it. John Bradshaw wrote that people can get addicted to negative emotions (shame, guilt, remorse, anger, fear....) because of the very strong internal chemicals like dopamine and others, that are stronger then heroine, that get released in our brains. This is a little deeper understanding into some of the slogans like "Just for Today", "Stay in the NOW" ect... There is nothing romantic about wallowing through our old baggage. "We had to let go of these old ideas absolutely".

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 9th of May 2012 06:00:48 AM

I really really dislike the phrase mental masturbation, I mean, I am a drunk - but PLEASE - I am still a lady!

The amusement park in my head is a lot easier on the ears. Thanks Ted.

Tasha. All of yesterdays used to hurt me until I heard the saying.

Yesterday is history.Tomorrow a mystery and today is a GIFT. A new me emerged as i moved forward.

Today the only time I look back is to share with a newcomer of how it used to be. I do this without tears or fears they have all been put to rest.

I look forward to each what each new day may bring today. :} And never er;pick and healed wounds.


Well done to you. X

Polly.X

rayted32. A big thank you for reminding me of Tradition 12. Page 565 Big Book. I must say I have never come across a cobra to kiss in an AA room as Yet..So I will put that on my YET LIST :}

Tradition Twelve.

And finally, we Of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the principles of anonymity has and immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities. That we are to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessing may never spoil us. that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of HIM who presides over us all.


Polly.X

Polly wrote:

---

LinBabaAgo-go wrote:

---

I like pie And irony

---

 Hi please could you explain what this means being just a simple little English Lady. I am lost :}

I would like a similar reply as to what you had.

I get your message, Lin.  We'll not communicate again.

---

 Hi Polly, "I like Pie" is an internet "meme" or slang term that means roughly that a person or persons are being ridiculous, "I like Pie" brings the conversation back to the original topic by being so blatently ridiculous that in many cases the protagonists can laugh at themselves, it should be noted it rarely works but it provides humor to bystanders.

 

"....and Irony"

 

I found it ironic that Ray was absolutely counter-sharing or "blasting" as he put it most of the contributions (and contributors) on this thread and then he turned around and accused you of doing the same thing, he also wrote: "This forum is not a place to write treatises on "Re-pathing our Synapses for Fun and Profit." and then proceeded to offer his book for sale before explaining to us poor uneducated plebes how endorphins actually work.

 

This has probably been one of the most amusing threads I have seen on this forum in some years just on the Irony alone, new guy comes in, "blasts everyone", accuses others of blasting him, tells newcomers this isn't the place to advance our theories for fun and profit, but suggests for the low low price of blah blah you can buy his book....and then wraps it up with a few more attacks on not only other posters, but ad hominum attacks on another posters sponsor, and then wraps it up with: There are times when it becomes difficult to find the principles underneath all that personality.  This was one of those times.  I work as hard as the next guy to promptly admit it when I am wrong.  If this was one of those times, then...God give me the grace to promptly admit it.

and then proceeds to turn up the ratchet a bit on his ad hominum attacks (attacking the poster not the subject) which is kind of a "no-no", you attack the argument, not the person, and then you can go as hard as you want and still remain civil, the moment it gets personal all hope is lost, newcomers see old timers behaving like children, decide they don't want what AA has to offer, dogs start lying down with cats, all hell breaks loose...

Look, if there is one thing I know about it's being, or coming across as a pompous ass that knows it all, I have done so countless times on this forum, and reread my posts the next day and just groaned, but I have to admit I just sat here in breathless admiration at the degree of virtousity in which it was displayed in this thread.

 

Hence:

 

I like Pie....

 

 

 

 

 

.......and Irony

 

I don't have a horse in this race so I could care less who "wins", but I have to admit I have derived a great deal of amusement just watching.

 

Tthe fact he wrote "we won't communicate again" meant he understood the thrust, that it hit home, and that he may need some time before he puts my name in that first column....if he remembers how that works I mean.

-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Thursday 10th of May 2012 06:37:32 PM

Hey the more you all wince and squirm, the more justified I feel about posting the comment. All I did was answer the question. Btw Ray, where do you get off lambasting my late sponsor?