I normally hang out on the Al-Anon side of this board and in Al-Anon F2F meeting rooms. It's where I started. It's where I began my road to recovery.
Two days ago, I finally admitted that I am an alcoholic, too. It came after about 3 months of fearlessly looking at myself and my drinking patterns with the help of a trusted AA person in my life. So, I went to my first AA meeting. And I went to my second AA meeting. Now, I'm terrified to go to my 3rd meeting.
After that first meeting, I had the "Wow, people who think just like me" moment. After the 2nd meeting, I had the "Wow, I'm not that bad so I am probably not an alcoholic" moment.
I have my list of why I am not an alcoholic: I haven't been to jail or rehab. I have never slept in a cardboard box--I've thrown up in one, but never slept in one. I haven't had a DUI. I haven't drank in the mornings... well, except if it was a Sunday and I had a hangover and a blood mary happened to cross my path. I haven't hidden bottles... well, expect for those empties I threw away so no one would see how much I drank the night before. I haven't lied about my drinking... well, except to my doctor. I haven't drank in 3 months--on my own with only the Al-Anon side for my spiritual development. I never had the shakes in the morning... well, unless it was a really bad hangover, but it didn't happen every morning. I didn't drink while I was pregnant--drinking before and after pregnancy doesn't count, right? I never hurt anyone with my drinking... well, expect for those really stupid, shameful, embarrassing drunk stories, but everyone has those, right?
Then, there is the list of all the reasons why I am an alcoholic: I was a black-out drinker from the beginning of my drinking career--not everytime, but enough to get my attention. The scarest blackouts were the ones that were happening weekly--that was a little over a year ago. The longest period of sobriety I have had since I started drinking is 9 months--each time I was pregnant. I drink to become someone else. I drink because I was never comfortable with myself. I drink because I thought it made me more interesting, fun, outgoing. I drink because it takes me out of myself and my racing thoughts. I can close my eyes right now and talk you through exactly what it feels like to drink a bottle of wine.
While everyone at each meeting I attended welcomed me with open arms, I still have that "do I belong here" feeling. I feel like I'm not "good enough" to be an alcoholic. Yeah, I know--insane.
I guess I'm bringing this here because some of you have "talked" to me on the Al-Anon side. I'm curious: When someone like me walks into an AA meeting, someone coming in from the back door through Al-Anon, someone without a horror story, someone who knows she needs some extra help and wants some insurance that she doesn't go any further, well... do I belong?
-- Edited by very very tired on Saturday 14th of April 2012 05:48:12 PM
Aloha VVT...you just have to love discovery...keep an open mind during discovery. I relate to your AA side share...we have some similarities and that is what my sponsors told me to look for ...the similarities NOT the differences. I peek into Al-Anon and hated it...peeked into AA and hated that even more...personalities all over the place and they all sucked. It wasn't for me until I approached a level of insanity and couldn't manage anything about my thinking anymore and then HP took over. Got me back into Al-Anon where I focused very dillegently on my enabling skills and the consequences of that and then after 9 years being alcohol free and a well respected alcoholism/drug addiction counselor suggested I do an assessment on myself after doing one on a new client who was going into inpatient. That I was 9 years alcohol free didn't hold much water my compulsions were taken up with other enabling events and then I did the requested assessment. Did a detached and honest one which included my 3 toxic shocks and my "yellowish/green" skin and the blackouts and anger and rage and all those other pieces of evidence. I took it over to the inpatient adult section nurse with "anonymous" in the patient's name line and 15 minutes or so later was told that "whoever belongs to this assessment needs to be in inpatient care of the next time they drink they die!!" I was big on genetics and on relapse avoidance...theirs' not mine cause I didn't have a problem. 9 years of constant Al-Anon often times just across the hall from AA and the co-coffee chats and the next Friday I was in my first AA meeting, in the corner, in the dark and not wanting to identify...They held the meeting up until I did and then I was a "double" which changed lots of stuff...especially service stuff I was doing in Al-Anon.
Alcoholism is a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body...At 16 years alcohol free/sober I got my first sobriety chip (I can avoid very very well) by surprise and my head told me "you're cured now...you can leave" and I almost walked out of the room with that. HP was at the meeting and set me up with "keep coming back" and I continued my sobriety and Al-Anon participation half life from that point. That was 17 years ago. I loss the compulsion to drink months ago. Interesting to have the active compulsion and not the drinking. I've been diagnosed "dual" personality so I chalk it up to the mini-me wanting a drink and me not very interested any more.
Do you belong? How commited one day at a time are you at finding out?
Only AA meetings I have been kicked out of were closed ones. "If you don't identify you cannot be here", they said and asked me to leave...glad I had Al-Anon during that dry spell and all meetings were open. Keep coming back with that open mind. Alcoholism is a fatal disease. This chemical doesn't play games at all. (((((Hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 14th of April 2012 11:17:00 PM
Welcome. It's impossible for us diagnose another person's alcoholism. Read pg 20 of the AA book. It explains the 3 types of drinkers. Also read the Doctor's Opinion. He explains the nature of the disease. I took the 1st drink because it made me feel good. The subsequent drinks I took because my body demanded it, until I reached oblivion. I never had a DUI, or went to jail or got into a fight. I was a good provider and my wife never believed I was an alcoholic. I did not believe I was an alcoholic until I came into AA and studied the AA book carefully and then examined my own personal experiences. Today I can definitely say I am an alcoholic because I know, not because somebody said so.
Hello VVT and welcome to the board. I enjoyed reading your post. You've got a great sense of humor and writing style, you'll fit in nicely here. I too was a blackout drinker. Not proud to say that I don't remember driving home on dozens of ocassions. I would think that would qualify. Although I did get charged with a couple DUIs, I hired a good attorney and beat the charges, so technically, I didn't have and DUIs either. It still got my attention and I got sober at 29 years old, and was relatively a "high bottom drunk". I had a hard time with this also, and it took me two years to "get it". I like this definition by John Bradshaw. "Addiction is a pathological relationship (love to / have to), to a mood altering substance or event, that has Life damaging consequences. This fits in nicely with the second half of the 1st step...."and that our lives had become unmanageable".
When I met my wife, she was in Al-Anon. She never slept in a cardboard box, she never got arrested for driving drunk, she'd never been to detox and her stories weren't nearly as colorful as mine, unless you count the one where....well she'd have to tell you that one. "To be gravely affected, one does not necessarily have to drink a long time nor take the quantities some of us have. This is particularly true of women." - big book page 33. There's no definition of an alcoholic, only a description because we each have a different story. My wife will celebrate 15 years of sobriety in Alcoholics Anonymous this september if she manages to not pick up a drink between now and then.
Alcohol does not cause alcoholism. The drinking is just a symptom of a much deeper problem. I know I don't have to tell you this because I know you already know. I probably don't have to tell you that you don't have to sleep in a box if you prefer to stop now, but if you are an alcoholic and you keep drinking, I'll let you know where I left mine.
Welcome home, friend.
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Not all my days are priceless, but none of my days are worthless, anymore.
Thanks, Wolfie, for the pg 33 reference. I continued reading on to page 34: "If anyone questions whether he has entered this dangerous area, let him try leaving liquor alone for one year. If he is a real alcoholic and very far advanced, there is scant chance of success..."
Hmm... gee... well, I haven't ever made it one year. Might be a problem here. Guess I might need a program. I'll let you know, Wolfie, if I need to borrow your cardboard box. I think I'll try a few meetings first. It's warmer in the meetings than a box, and they have coffee and donuts, sometimes cookies, too.
Jerry, thank you for your response. I'm baffled how I missed seeing my own alcoholism. My denial runs deep. I'm glad I haven't been asked to leave a meeting... yet. My first AA meeting for myself (I had been to a couple open meetings with my Al-Anon secret identity) was a closed meeting and everyone was very gentle with me.
VVT - The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Sobriety is an awesome state of mind and I think you can benefit from AA clearly. In my time in AA, I have seen many people with "high bottoms" and some with very low bottoms. It doesn't really matter. You know you have a maladaptive drinking pattern. You also have enough 12 step experience to see where the program can benefit you. In the end, AA is a way of life and if it appeals to you, than you have your answer right there.
One way of being at peace with your decision is not to agonize over what your drinking problem is or was, but how much you want to embrace a sober life and then move forward. I also think that you have seen so much wreckage due to alcoholism (whether it be you or your qualifier) that your drinking is forever ruined now anyhow so AA would not be a bad place for you. Any drinking now is likely to take you to an awful place, so it would seem you probably would benefit from ongoing sobriety no matter how far progress your drinking/alcoholism may be or have been.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I am what is described as a "fairly high bottom" recovering alcoholic and when I hear people talk about the lows alcohol played as a part of in their lives I simply add the word yet to it. I haven't had a DUI...yet. I haven't been to jail...yet. I haven't lost my marriage...yet. I haven't been homeless...yet. Though these things didn't happen to me while I was drinking I am very aware that this disease is progressive and if I pick up that first drink I open the door to all the "yets".
I really like living in the now instead. Now I have the tools to recover. Now I have a community to learn and grow with. Now I have a Higher Power to rely upon. Now I experience peace and serenity. Now I know a better way and that there is a solution.
Nows trump yets every time. :)
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
hello very very tired So much has ready been said. The only thing I can add is that people who are not alcoholic do not wonder if they are or not. Only we alcoholics do. Its because in the back of our minds we know that if we are alcohlic we have to stop drinking and we cant imagine not having the one thing that actually allows us to feel normal even if it is only for ten min or so. Your not alone in this. I did not come to AA through the back door from alanon but after some years in AA I find my self a member of AA and alanon. Alcoholism is an equal oppertunity disease no matter what side you show up on.
Welcome hope you put down the boxing gloves and stay.
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
Welcome. I can certainly identify with your thinking. I'd keep asking myself in so many different ways, was I really alcoholic.
I remember my sponsor said to me "I can't tell you if you're alcoholic. BUT in my experience, non-alcoholics don't just say to themselves, 'you know something, I think that I'll just drop by an AA meeting to see what it's like." Basically, I was told that if I'd come in the doors of alcoholics anonymous, I was wondering if I was an alcoholic.
The penny dropped...as did the full wisdom of these sentences on page 31 of the Big Book: "Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonaloholic." Every time I tried to tell myself I wasn't alcoholic, I was actually just confirming that I was.
Anyway, thanks for your share and keep coming back.
You know you have a maladaptive drinking pattern. You also have enough 12 step experience to see where the program can benefit you.
...you have seen so much wreckage due to alcoholism (whether it be you or your qualifier) that your drinking is forever ruined now anyhow so AA would not be a bad place for you. Any drinking now is likely to take you to an awful place, so it would seem you probably would benefit from ongoing sobriety no matter how far progress your drinking/alcoholism may be or have been.
Thanks, Mark. You are right: I know the program has helped me so far. I have seen the "wreckage" both in my own life and in the other alcoholics in my life. (Who knew I would end up being one of the alcoholics in my life?) The place where my drinking would take me now is not a place where I want to be.
Thanks, Steve, billyjack, and vixen for your experience. True, I didn't set my alarm for an early morning hour so I could get to an early morning AA meeting because I had nothing better to do with my morning. If you knew how much of a non-morning person I am, you would know I wasn't just there for the coffee and donuts. Thanks for guiding me to some clarity.
Welcome. As I have often told people who have concerns similar to yours, I'm a professional in her mid-30s who lives comfortably, has a lot of friends, and has never gotten a DUI or suffered any consequences along the line of losing a job or a home, etc. I am pretty healthy and work out every day (and did even when I was drinking). I hid my drinking very well, even from my closest friends. I live in a major city where going out for drinks is the de rigeur social outing, and most people drink quite a bit socially.
I knew I was an alcoholic when I started becoming concerned about the fact that I had to have my wine to relax and fall asleep every night. I tried to stop for a month, then just a week, repeatedly, and always failed to last more than a couple of days. I made plans around my drinking, such as gradually making excuses not to travel with friends anymore (anyone sharing a hotel room with me would have seen me drinking myself to sleep!).
It sounds like maybe you haven't found the right meetings yet. In my city, I could certainly find meetings where many of the attendees had been homeless, been to jail, etc., and although I'm no better or worse than them -- we're all alcoholics -- I might have had a hard time finding common ground at first and wondered whether I was "that bad."
I am grateful to have found a number of women's meetings in my neighborhood where I found a lot of commonality with women who drank like me and had similar stories to mine. Maybe that sort of environment would work better for you, try a lot of meetings until you find the right fit.
Thanks, everyone. I went to another meeting. Entered the door with a changed attitude: Yes, I do belong here; I am no better, no worse; I simply am. I took my seat knowing I was there for the same purpose as everyone else: to work on living sober.
This time I was able to listen a little more, hear a little more, and take a little more home with me.
hi VVT, glad you are here, helping me to stay sober one more day. please keep coming back and share and listen. the experience, strength, and hope on this site helps me every time i reach out. hugs, jj/sheila
Thanks, everyone. I went to another meeting. Entered the door with a changed attitude: Yes, I do belong here; I am no better, no worse; I simply am. I took my seat knowing I was there for the same purpose as everyone else: to work on living sober.
This time I was able to listen a little more, hear a little more, and take a little more home with me.
Great stuff. I know that feeling too -- and thanks for helping me stay sober today.
Hi very very tired and all members. I am new to the forum but just like a meeting enjoying everything about it :}
I have been to Al-Anon just a few times as I was advised to because my husband was drinking while I had stopped. I posted last night our share under keep coming back. Someone said to go and let go and let God. I though they were telling me to let go of my husband ! Hmm. ! The let God bit I did not hear. Anyway I shared that I was an Alcoholic so was my husband and that he was in the hospital he was desperate to stop drinking. I am guessing some received hope from me because I shared as an Alcoholic and within my share was hope for my husband that he will return to AA. God willing. We are both happy in AA because the God of both our understandings led us back. I have a relative who attends Al-Anon in the USA because her late husband was a struggling Alcoholic and died of this illness. You remind me so very much of her but it is our own inner self that when being totally honest reveals all to us.
Looking on and seeing that you now are going to give AA a chance I just want to say very well done. And keep coming back. So pleased for you that you have found where you belong.
We only struggle if we try to fight it and why would I want to fight something that is good for me.
How are you doing VVtired I so hope all is going well for you. I get this each day by email and thought it might help someone somewhere.
Daily Reflections: SELF-HONESTY
SELF-HONESTY
Posted: 17 Apr 2012 10:01 PM PDT
The deception of others is nearly always rooted in the deception of ourselves. . . . When we are honest with another person, it confirms that we have been honest with ourselves and with God. AS BILL SEES IT, p. 17
When I was drinking, I deceived myself about reality, rewriting it to what I wanted it to be. Deceiving others is a character defecteven if it is just stretching the truth a bit or cleaning up my motives so others would think well of me. My Higher Power can remove this character defect, but first I have to help myself become willing to receive that help by not practicing deception. I need to remember each day that deceiving myself about myself is setting myself up for failure or disappointment in life and in Alcoholics Anonymous. A close, honest relationship with a Higher Power is the only solid foundation Ive found for honesty with self and with others.
When I was drinking i knew I was an Alcoholic but for years I did nothing about it :{ Today I do all that I can to stay sober.
I have heard it said many time that if I put as much effort into staying sober and I did into getting the drink I would be doing well so thats just what I try to do. So I keep busy staying sober doing all I can to help myself and others.
I haven't had a DUI. I haven't drank in the mornings... well, except if it was a Sunday and I had a hangover and a blood mary happened to cross my path. I haven't hidden bottles... well, expect for those empties I threw away so no one would see how much I drank the night before. I haven't lied about my drinking... well, except to my doctor. I haven't drank in 3 months--on my own with only the Al-Anon side for my spiritual development. I never had the shakes in the morning... well, unless it was a really bad hangover, but it didn't happen every morning. I didn't drink while I was pregnant--drinking before and after pregnancy doesn't count, right? I never hurt anyone with my drinking... well, expect for those really stupid, shameful, embarrassing drunk stories, but everyone has those, right?
I too was a blackout drinker. Not proud to say that I don't remember driving home on dozens of ocassions. I would think that would qualify. Although I did get charged with a couple DUIs, I hired a good attorney and beat the charges, so technically, I didn't have and DUIs either. It still got my attention and I got sober at 29 years old, and was relatively a "high bottom drunk". I had a hard time with this also, and it took me two years to "get it". I like this definition by John Bradshaw. "Addiction is a pathological relationship (love to / have to), to a mood altering substance or event, that has Life damaging consequences. This fits in nicely with the second half of the 1st step...."and that our lives had become unmanageable". 
Guess I might need a program. I'll let you know, Wolfie, if I need to borrow your cardboard box. I think I'll try a few meetings first. It's warmer in the meetings than a box, and they have coffee and donuts, sometimes cookies, too.