Going along with whats being discussed here as I can relate. My way to pick the worse out of crowd has always been an easy thing for me to do even thoe i am not trying. My issue was with a few who were clearly abusing painmeds but used the cover of AA alcohol only focus, of which most know is true denial. But due to me focusing on nthese individuals in the AA program I allowed it to brew to long in my head causing to many negative thoughts on the program. I left the program for 8 months.
I came back to program because I noticed my relapse issues were coming on me. This time as I go on its my main purpose and goal is to seek out the good and ignore the bad. Afterall this is my program , for me, i expect to see the bad but i will spend my time with the good.
-- Edited by twc130 on Sunday 25th of March 2012 02:01:34 PM
He goes to meetings, sits in the back. He is in his late 40's. During breaks, he picks a newbie and rips them to shreds, in public. He claims himself a guru. Mean while, he drinks NyQuil to go to sleep at night, and is a well-known 13th stepper. The phrases he says are valid and applicable. And claims to have 20+ years. And this guy grates my nerves like no other.
My question is: How do you qualify one as a guru? And as an alcoholic (or an addict) Can you claim to have that long if youre improperly using cold meds? I don't know what the people above 30years call it, but this "abuse" of cold meds in my generation is called a robo-trip. because of the DXM(?) in robutussin.
Sorry, this guy right now is using so much space in my head, he should be paying rent.
__________________
sober: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
Good question. Officially, there are no gurus in AA. No one is more or less important than anyone else. Although there are some people in AA who know a thing or two about the authentic 12-step program as outlined in the "big book," but they are a bit difficult to find. You have to go to meetings where people actually read from the basic text, 12 and 12, and literature from the many pioneers... and where the steps are stressed as the way to recovery (not meetings and fellowship--those are the extra tools that can help to re-inforce a person's recovery). Abusing cold meds is only a part of it. There are also many who abuse pain meds but will not admit they have an addiction. I've also (too often) rented space in my head to the older timers who push THEIR program instead of THE AA program. They love the adoration of newcomers who don't know better and worship these people to get into the social groups. But there are also the newcomers who become gurus from what they've been taught in diversion classes or treatment centers--then the want to explain to all the "losers" in AA how recovery should REALLY be done. One way to get this guy out of your head is to find someone who practices the principles in all their affairs and learn about REAL AA from them. Good luck.
__________________
"What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition." ~Basic Text, page 85
I'm convinced God puts these types in AA because we need to learn patience and acceptance. I keep going back to that again and again and again. Trust me. We all have those types in our respective local fellowships. I could tell you some of the same stories about similar kinds of whack jobs I have seen in meetings. The good thing is that most people with half a brain can spot their looniness from a mile away. It doesn't really matter that they claim 20 years sobriety because nobody wants what they have and they are sad and lonely (as well as not honest). When I really hone in on this, my anger and resentmet starts to melt into pity for that type of person.
When I see them or have to listen to them in meetings, I still wind up gritting my teeth, but the best solution is for YOU to go up to that newcomer that he just shredded and to support them. The answer is for YOU to carry the message the way it's supposed to be carried. I don't mean for you to go up and say "Don't listen to that guy. He's an asshole!" But go up and be like "Hey, I just wanted you to know that.....(insert appropriate recovery related share) because I didn't hear you getting that feedback from others." Later on you might thank this lunatic for being your segway to working with newcomers (which is something all of us need to do anyhow).
I am sure people have told off this guy before and he probably thinks people don't like him cuz hes "hardcore" or whatever while simultaneously ignoring overwhelming social feedback that he's just an asshole. That type is entirely too common in AA, but since they are SOOOO easy to spot, most people are not fooled and they think the same things you do but are just quicker to let it go. Those that need help will find it from the right people. Somehow I managed to navigate my way through the crazies and to find quality friends and sponsorship and I presume you did also right? AA is not in danger from one screwball.
Just my take.
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks for your share. It's an interesting anecdote, isn't it? How one person's misery affects us all? It's another surreal moment caught up in the drama that is "AA", that's all. I try to ignore incidents like these, but I can't. It shines a negative light in face of 'real' recovery, which could ultimately paint this fellowship an ugly shade of 'mean'. And that's only half the battle. Incidents, like this one, can leave a sour residue on the palette of unsuspecting members everywhere, and that really hurts. The only effective antidote to change is through 'active engagement'. And that's only the beginning. We must create change within ourselves -first and foremost- and make sobriety 'our' priority, regardless. And you're an advocate for that Ruhig. If this person wants to enjoy a healthy and sober lifestyle today, than incidents like this one won't challenge those beliefs. But what if it doesn't. Well, that's where you come in, my friend. What started out in obscurity -and with an unsuspecting tirade- can result in another success story ultimately, but only if willing members -like yourself- allow that to happen. So my suggestion is simple; become an advocate for change Ruhig and lead 'by' example. And allow those the liberty of 'your' understanding despite such adversities. That, my friend, is what we call... a real 'fellow'ship. I hope you will, for the good of "AA".
~God Bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Monday 26th of March 2012 03:20:32 AM
We've been having an issue with an aa 13 stepper, who chats up the women, when they take their children to alateen meetings. He is a sponsor for our children (not mine anymore). There is very little recourse for us as the other mothers seem to enjoy his comments.
It's funny but I seem to hear about this sort fo thing much more often than I actually see it. I remember my sponsor warning me that AA is not a mutual admiration society and I can expect to meet people I don't like. Though mostly I can find something to like about most people if I try. The general advice on this would be to hand it over. To some that means look the other way, duck the responsibility. But often I find when I ask for guidance I feel called to take some kind of action. In circumstances similar to that you describe, I will approach the newcomer directly as has been suggested above. As Mr David says I try to lead by example. A full frontal assault on the miscreant seldom does much good.
It's funny but I seem to hear about this sort fo thing much more often than I actually see it. I remember my sponsor warning me that AA is not a mutual admiration society and I can expect to meet people I don't like. Though mostly I can find something to like about most people if I try. The general advice on this would be to hand it over. To some that means look the other way, duck the responsibility. But often I find when I ask for guidance I feel called to take some kind of action. In circumstances similar to that you describe, I will approach the newcomer directly as has been suggested above. As Mr David says I try to lead by example. A full frontal assault on the miscreant seldom does much good.
I've got 2 cents more. As soon as step two makes reference to a power greater than ourselves...there are no (for me) gurus in AA or Al-Anon. It's been mentioned by Mr.David and Mike H. which reminds me of the AA responsibility statment which is a part of my daily me. "When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA (no other program is mentioned) to always be there and for that...I AM responsible. Principles before personalities...often times that gets reversed...ego and pride still are active. I've been caught at it by others and myself. I am not the program. I am not the guru. I am but one accepted member for Alcoholics Anonymous attempting to gain and maintain my sobriety as suggested.
Most insane fun I can ever have is doing personality combat with another alcoholic...never have been a winner.
My wife and I took a couple young ladies we were sponsoring to a fundraiser dinner the local club for AAs was having. I was dressed like Al Capone and they looked like my...well they looked mighty nice. While we were sitting outside having a smoke, this guy I didn't really know comes up, completely ignores me and starts hitting on my wife. She quickly put him in his place, so he moves on to the two young ladies and he's looking down their tops and telling them if they ever need a drive to a meeting, he's got a brand new porsche convertible, and he just moved down from the west coast and he's got twenty years of this and he got that and blah blah blah. Needless to say, I did not like the guy. and over the next couple of days I start watching the guy in meetings, because I used to do volunteer work for the AA Police Force don't ya know and its my duty to keep 13-steppers away from newcomers and to make sure everyone is taking their own inventory and if they need help with that then I take it for them. Just the ones who been around a while though. Of course I also noticed that word had traveled fast and none of the ladies were paying any attention to him, and he was just sitting by himself. He looked a bit dejected. And I thought maybe he was just having an off day or maybe that's how they did things on the west coast or maybe he really is a jerk, I don't know. I only really know my own story. So I took off my badge, holstered my big book, went over and shook the guys hand. We did a little small talk. Every time he sees me he smiles and shakes my hand. I still think he's an....what was the word Mike used?.....
It reminds me of a questions I heard in the tradition studies I go to. In my opinions of and remarks about other AAs am I implying membership requirements other than a desire to stay sober?
Its a good point Ruhig. It gets me thinking. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
__________________
Not all my days are priceless, but none of my days are worthless, anymore.
