I guess I forgot to answer the question "how to do it". When the chair person in the meetings asks "does anyone have a topic or something they need to talk about..." raise your hand and begin. I'd say that I am back from a relapse, I'm starting over and here's what happened in the days, hours, moments before I picked up that first drink..... Then I might asked what others did, after they came back in to successfully up their program, commitments, meetings ect...
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 15th of March 2012 09:05:26 AM
My sponsor says, talk about it, keep talking about it, just get it out there and you'll feel better. It will be good for others, and you will be helping someone else. My questions are basically how? And why?
I don't know, maybe it was just me, but hearing about all these people who relasped, and "fake it til they make it" just showed ME, (and remember, I'm just talking about me here, me again, yes me me me ; ) who did relaspse, and is maybe making excuses, or was looking for a reason to drink and used this) that relapse was okay, and people came out okay, and it was common, and going to be accepted etc etc. So personally, I feel like it was great to share with her, and my husband, and myself, but I have a gut feeling (which is usually wrong and why I'm posting this), to not share about it tonight at my home group. I first of all, don't know what to say that is not going to give someone else the idea about it like it did me. Secondly, she's pushing me into it, and I don't really feel like it's right. And third, It's over, and I just want to move forward and not dwell on it. I'm over it, why can't I let it go? So here are my questions oh wise ones... enlighten me! : ) This drunk needs some brain power, mine is clearly a puddle.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Tasha, first off, it's helpful to get a concept of your disease, as "cunning, baffling, and powerful", that's it has a life of it's own, separate from you. You're alcoholism want's you to fail, and it is trying to set you up (to Drink) anyway that it can (resentments, anger, victimization of self, cohersion, elation, denial...). Then there is this, what I call " Our Authentic self" that is trying to get well from this illness. That is the side of us that we need to pay attention to. Listening carefully, we begin to understand when we are thinking, talking, (and most importantly) acting In Recovery, Or when we are actively (thinking, talking, acting) in our disease. It's all very subtle at first, to us, but not to others that have been sober a few years. It's as obvious (to us) as having it written on your forehead. For example, you are showing reluctance to do something that your sponsor has asked you to do. You don't want to tell on yourself at the meeting, about your relapse. And you're kind of looking for validation here about Not doing it. Sharing at meetings, about "our stuff" and how we're dealing with it, or asking how to deal with it, is an essential part of the process. A reluctance to to what is reasonably asked, usually indicates a reservation To drink. When you hear a voice in your head say "Oh NO, I'm not going to do That", that's your disease Owning you. It takes a while to unlock the shackles and chains that our disease has on us. The are heavy, but once we are free from them, our life takes on a whole new meaning. You'll hear in meeting about people "carrying the rock" and how heavy it was, and how it felt when they finally "dropped the rock". Same thing. Ask John about his first sponsor, and his "Directions" lol.
Ahhh, okay, so say I don't mind telling on myself at all. Still, how is it helping others to share about it? If I were okay with telling anyone and everyone, shouting it off the roof tops if that's what my sponsor told me to do... how would that benefit me and them? How is talking about relapse beneficial to other people listening? How is it beneficial for me to go back over it when I'm already over it and no longer feel the need to talk about it, have already hashed it out, and am in a good place with it, not trying to hide anything about it, but would be bringing it up again, just for the sake of others (my sponsor told me she feels it must be brought up at home group, and I have already talked about it in other meetings when it came up in conversation, and out naturally, and on here where I forced myself to tell on myself after it first happened as to not be dishonest about anything).
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I'm not trying to argue, and I'm asking this mater of factly, as if I were asking the answer to 2+2. I really just don't know the answer and am not trying to argue my point, just ask the question of how this will benefit myself and more importantly others by talking about my relapse.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Tasha, first off, it's helpful to get a concept of your disease, as "cunning, baffling, and powerful", that's it has a life of it's own, separate from you. You're alcoholism want's you to fail, and it is trying to set you up (to Drink) anyway that it can (resentments, anger, victimization of self, cohersion, elation, denial...). Then there is this, what I call " Our Authentic self" that is trying to get well from this illness. That is the side of us that we need to pay attention to. Listening carefully, we begin to understand when we are thinking, talking, (and most importantly) acting In Recovery, Or when we are actively (thinking, talking, acting) in our disease. It's all very subtle at first, to us, but not to others that have been sober a few years. It's as obvious (to us) as having it written on your forehead. For example, you are showing reluctance to do something that your sponsor has asked you to do. You don't want to tell on yourself at the meeting, about your relapse. And you're kind of looking for validation here about Not doing it. Sharing at meetings, about "our stuff" and how we're dealing with it, or asking how to deal with it, is an essential part of the process. A reluctance to to what is reasonably asked, usually indicates a reservation To drink. When you hear a voice in your head say "Oh NO, I'm not going to do That", that's your disease Owning you. It takes a while to unlock the shackles and chains that our disease has on us. The are heavy, but once we are free from them, our life takes on a whole new meaning. You'll hear in meeting about people "carrying the rock" and how heavy it was, and how it felt when they finally "dropped the rock". Same thing. Ask John about his first sponsor, and his "Directions" lol.
This
It's really as simple as that, when we are new, we can't tell the difference between the voice in our head that is "alcoholism" and the voice in our head that is our "unsuspected inner resource" that we use to recover from alcoholism, some call it a higher power, some an authentic self, but we have been listening to the illness for so long it is louder and makes more sense.
Consider, when someone asks you to think "outside the box", what are they asking? "The Box" in this case is a prison we have constructed in our own mind, -with- our own mind, and the truth is, we can't use the same thinking that built the prison to think outside the prison, we have to remap the mind to remove the prison walls. That is what the steps do, and sharing, and listening to others share, when I think something inside the dark recesses of my mind it makes perfect sense, when I hear someone else have the exact same thinking and share this at group level I am laughing so hard that tears come down my face at the stupidity and riduculousness of that thinking, after many years I can watch my thoughts go by like the New York Stock Exchange ticker, and only get in trouble when I grab one of those thoughts and take it down and make it mine, I buy the product it's selling and I have slipped my leash.
The difference is when we are new, those insane thoughts are the ones we believe, they are our "normal", it's not that I don't have insane thoughts any more, the difference between me and someone who is new is I laugh at my insanity, I know those are just thoughts and it has no bearing on reality, the newcomer thinks those thoughts -are- reality.
The tenth step promises state "by this time sanity has returned, when tempted we recoil as if from a hot flame"
In order to achieve sanity, one has to work the first 9 steps. The first 9 steps are a series of Socratic questions that exposes our insane thinking to us using our own answers, it can't be explained, it can only be experienced, going to meetings at two weeks I looked at the people with 3 days and realized how far I had come, at 2 months I looked at people with two weeks and once again, was blown away at how far I had come, this never stops, we go through stages and after sponsoring many others we begin to see the same things over and over and there really is a hard line between sanity and insanity, but when we are going through the insanity, we don't see it.
We are trapped inside the prison walls our mind built, sponsors try to show us different ways to get outside that box, they are like drill sergeants in boot camp, someone you may not like telling you to do things you may not understand in order to keep you alive after they are gone.
Trust the process, not your thinking, your thinking will -always- get you drunk by making you suffer until drinking is the only option.
Always.
This is non negotiable for a true alcoholic, this is what defines alcoholism. The Insanity (and the subsequent allergy) but it starts with the insanity.
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I have a complusion of the mind and an allergy of the body.
This compulsion thing makes me think about having a drink. It makes me think I can drink like a normal person. That having one to 'take the edge off' a rough day is a good idea. That red wine with steak tastes good. That scotch rocks goes real well with a big fat cigar. Etc, etc and on and on.
If all I had was a compulsion of the mind, I'd be ok because I could satisfy that compulsion with a single drink and be over it. But together with this allergy thing, I can't just have a drink without having another and another until I'm drunk. At least not for any length of time. I've proved this to myself.
What helped me get over the compulsion thing was to start being honest with myself. I needed to be honest with myself to work the steps but this honesty thing is harder than for me than it seems.
What helped me to start being honest with myself was to find a group of people (my home group) and start being honest with them. Whatever was going on they heard about it.
My last relapse I thought I was in control of drinking. It took me three years to come back. By that time I was drunk again most days and every night. My drinking had become worse than the 1st time I'd come to A.A. So I do this thing because when I do this thing I'm much less likely to go back and do that thing.
Ahhh, okay, so say I don't mind telling on myself at all. Still, how is it helping others to share about it? If I were okay with telling anyone and everyone, shouting it off the roof tops if that's what my sponsor told me to do... how would that benefit me and them?
How is talking about relapse beneficial to other people listening? How is it beneficial for me to go back over it when I'm already over it and no longer feel the need to talk about it, have already hashed it out, and am in a good place with it, not trying to hide anything about it, but would be bringing it up again, just for the sake of others (my sponsor told me she feels it must be brought up at home group, and I have already talked about it in other meetings when it came up in conversation, and out naturally, and on here where I forced myself to tell on myself after it first happened as to not be dishonest about anything).
Just Saying "I drank", rather than telling about what was going on (and not going on) in the days, weeks, and moments before you drank, how you felt before, during, and after, are completely different. looking back at your own posts (and interactions in them) it will be clear to yourself. Like Linbabba, I see a lot of me in your words. We a lot more alike than we are different. In early sobriety we're not going to be able to figure it out. If we could, we wouldn't be here. Our best thinking brought us here.
With that said, that's why we pick a sponsor that "has what we want" and follow their direction and have faith in the process. Like Linbabba, I could fill pages and pages but the fact is, you're not going to understand it at this point, and your attention span isn't going to allow it either. It's becoming clear to me now, one of the major draw backs of an on-line communtiy (such as this one) in regards to newcomers vs. Real AA meetings. A newcomer reads the posts made by sober folks on this board, and can totally discount them because they can't see the person who is making them. I remember vividly the folks that were in my early home group meetings (as well as I did in the years to come). Many of them were highly successful people (and a lot were average). It made me think, here's this person/people that are Doctors, Judges, Pro althletes, Military officers, Business owners.... and they are all telling (basically) the same thing, and they're here at my meeting when they could be at home with the kids on the couch. It meant a lot to me, and impressed more than I can express in words, that they were there because it was necessary and important to them. More important than anything.
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking..... Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 15th of March 2012 05:10:51 PM
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 17th of March 2012 01:49:36 AM
Thanks for all that, I liked it. I am a stay at home Mom, and I just got done explaining to my 3 yr old that she can not slap her 1.5 yr old friend repeatedly on the head because she doesn't want her to take her toys. The difference between me and how my Mother did it is this:
My Mother would say/do: "Natasha Simone, STOP THAT RIGHT NOW AND GO TO YOUR ROOM AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE! YOU CAN COME OUT WHEN IT'S CLEAN!!!!!". I would go to my room and think of ways to not get in trouble next time. In the 70's you also got a spankin and couldn't come out of your room until you cleaned it, or at least shoved everything under the bed. There was no "time out for each minute of your age" as we do it now. That requires effort by the parent in timing and paying attention, and you do not get to let out your own frustrations through hitting. You do not get a break for 15 minutes or more, while also making your children accomplish one of your chores. It was a great plan, but I see through it now. Now parents (well, some anyway) show their children how to clean and act. My Mom was great, and I was loved, she just didn't know any better.
How I do it: "Layla Sade', STOP THAT!!!! "Say I'm sorry to Lily." Proceeding the apology: "Why did you slap her Layla?" Layla, "she's taking my toys". Me: "Okay then you say please don't take my toys." Layla "Oh" (with a look of revelation on her face). Me: "Layla, she will probably not stop when you ask her, and in that case, you must walk away and find me. Ask for help, I will always help you". Layla: "Okay, I will Mama". My children only act this way when I am a Mama this way.
Ten minutes Later, (and only 5 minutes ago).
*SCREAMING*
Layla: "MAMA, HELP ME RIGHT NOW!!!" Me: "Layla, the only solution is for you to pick up your toys and play with them where she can't reach you. She's too little to understand you don't want her to play with you." Layla: "Yeah, she's just a baby, I'll show her how to play with these toys". Me: Smiling from last comment. "Layla, you may not ask for help by screaming it. Walk over to me and say will you help me please Mama. Layla: "okay".
Then I pick up my toy (this laptop) and move to a quiet place where I think no one can reach me.
Layla runs over "will you help me please Mama?" Me: "what do you need?" Layla: "I want a sucker!" Me: "Layla, we say could I have a sucker please." She repeats it, but I still say no. *pouting*
And so it continues.
I can see here, thanks to my children, that I am just like a child here in AA, and need to just do what I'm told. I need to repeat after you, and I need someone to teach me how to act, and say things, because I am just that ignorant, and have never done it correctly. Every move I make needs to be either taught or corrected! I am going to need someone to give me solutions for issues I may run into in the future. And I'm going to want a sucker (a drink) and someone is going to have to tell me no. And I will probably pout.
I have looked at my children as a burden while trying to recover. It's been stressful never really getting a "lunch break", a moment to read any of the literature without a foot in my face, or having to wipe jelly off the page. Even sitting here writing this short blurp has had over 20 interruptions, and I honestly can't even keep a thought straight in my head. My sponsor tells me to wake up and say the serenity prayer, but most days I wake up because someone is crying and I just get out of bed, and that is the start of my day. I fall asleep while reading books to the kids, not my own. It's exhausting, and doing AA right is really challenging. I thought I was not up for the challenge. The whole thing just seemed too much. Life that is.
But mostly it's just my attitude. And If I'm laying down reading, and someone lays down next to me and sticks their foot in my face for attention, I can either yell at them, or tickle and kiss that foot. I can let that be my daily reflection, and hope to catch tomorrow's. I do not dread tomorrow, and that's thanks to AA.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Sharing about your relapse will help others to stay sober. At least, it helps me to stay sober when others in my group have shared about theirs. One woman recently shared about relapsing after just about six months of sobriety. She spoke about the pain and regret, about how awful it felt to experience being out of control again, how ashamed she was for her friends who have supported her to see her that way, and how crushing it was to wake up sick the next day and put the pieces back together again. I saw the pain on her face and knew but for the grace of God, that could be me. She reminded me that I only have today and that my next drunk is always waiting for me if I don't do the work and stay spiritually fit. In no way did I feel that relapsing was "ok" because she did it and made it back. I simply felt immense gratitude that it hasn't happened to me yet and a chilling reminder of what it is like out there. I thought it was so very brave of her to share in the way she did and yes, the memory of what she shared will stick with me for a long time and just might help me not pick up again.
My very best to you, lovely one.
~ Vix
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
Tasha, that's a very insightful post and while there are many wise words above, the questions you raise a very valid. My last drink wasn't a slip, it was the final part of my first step. It was yet another experiment in controlled drinking that failed. When my AA friend phoned me on the morning after, I told him staright away, be he seemed to know already. That night I met my sponsor to be and he told me I was looking well, and I told him what happened, pretty soon everyone in our small group knew, it was not a matter that I felt any need to conceal, but neither did it deserve any special announcement in a meeting. I went back to listening to the solution in the meeting. The question of whether sharing about relapse helps people or not is a good one. There is some validity to what you are saying and it is a mistake to trivialise a relapse. The idea that we can go out and always comeback is just not true. Many have given up the power of choice and never got back. But an alcoholic who sees others getting away with it may well wonder why he shouldn't have a go himself. You are also in distinguished company. Sister Ignatia, who worked in the hospital with Doctor Bob noticed that the success rate for each group of alcoholic patients was much reduced when relapsers were present. Fake it till your make it? get me a bucket! How can a fake make it in a programme that demands rigorous honesty?
I think you can tell through the writing who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't on here. I also like the fact that you can see what people have said in the past, how long they've been here, etc. so you can better judge who has what you want. Most of the meetings I go to I have no idea who I'm listening to and no way of finding out really... well, it takes time. The only draw back in not being able to hear peoples voices. I do not sound here, like I do in an AA meeting. I can barely speak in an AA meeting, I have to choke it out because I know I should most of the time. Too shy. So this is really nice for a lot of reasons.
You guys have spent a lot of time helping me today. Thanks so much for your help and wisdom. I will be leaving in 20 minutes for my meeting. I'll let you know how it goes ; )
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I root for folks Tasha. I am rooting for you and so are other people. When you deleted your account here, folks worried and missed you. Let others care for you in a non-creepy fellowship kind of way. You can't do this on your own and if your home group needs to carry you in some ways, that's the way it has to be. That is the way it's supposed to be. Any other way is just being willful. You can't do this without them and you can't do it without total honesty.
Hearing about your relapse helps me because of several reasons: 1. You came back and that teaches me that it's not that great out there drinking so don't even try it. 2. You show that AA does work because this is where you came back to. 3. I see you struggling and I want to help you and that makes me forget about me and my petty problems for a while (helping others helps us to get out of self). 4. Someone has to carry on the message Tasha. This is the 12th step in action because I want you to become that mom with young kids who eventually has 1 year sober, 2 years, 3 years and so on who is then able to be the sponsor to another young woman who comes along not knowing what to do and unable to stop drinking - but it will be your experience, strength, and hope that you are giving. This betters AA and I want that since AA gave me my life back.
Hope that helps.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
How's AA treating you? Good, I hope. I can only presume so, for now. You do seem a bit frustrated though, are you not? Do you find yourself in a bit of a quandary over "AA" lately? It certainly sounds that way to me. Like you're in dire need of a spiritual lift somehow? Well, if you are dear, consider this your moment of clarity. My version of a spiritual lift Tasha isn't unique, just different, and goes something like this. It's okay to feel uncomfortable dear, especially in early sobriety. You're new to the program, are you not? Is it surprising than to find "AA" a bit quirky at first? A safe assumption is always our first reaction, isn't it? These are just 3 in a long list qualifying questions I asked early on, so if you happened to answer yes to any of the following you're probably in the right place too. So stick around Tasha, it can only get better from here.
The dilemma presented here is nothing new Tasha, and I get your frustrations dear, I really do. You've been troubled by certain "AA" expressions same as me, haven't you? Let's face it, I never cared for the phrase "fake it until you make it" either -even though they mean well. Here's my dilemma however; what are we supposed to be faking anyway? I can't fake how I feel, but I can certainly numb those feelings by drinking, can't I? What you encountered Tasha is nothing new. We all encountered similar dilemmas ourselves; which, believe it or not, happened right after our first trip to an "AA" meeting same as you. My dilemma, at the time, went something like this: I knew how to get drunk, but I couldn't tell you how to get sober. I wanted to establish a connection somewhere, and "AA" came to mind. So off I went.
What seemed like a suitable alternative to my so called 'drinking dilemma' became nothing short of miraculous, though not at first. "AA" was great in the beginning, but my enthusiasm quickly faded after that. They had a refreshing outlook on life -something I couldn't ignore, but the confusing part to all this was "AA's" less than stellar approach to sober living, which for the most part, made sober living seem unrealistic from that point on. I was searching for sound advice mostly -along with shared wisdom on topics ranging from marital advice to sober solutions, but what I got in return was less than stellar results. What was supposed to be a cleansing of the palette somehow, became nothing of the sorts. Their vain description of sobriety was based upon irrelevant findings and senseless dialogue. It was also steeped in the same level of alcoholic reasoning that I was already accustomed too. And that's when my worst fears became real. I was expecting an education of sorts, but what they offered up in return was "AA" dialect instead, nothing more -which never proved worthy in my eyes by the way. It wasn't until I surrendered completely that the prospect of long term sobriety became all too real. And the same can happen to you.
So here's my suggestion: Find a sponsor, work the steps and recover just like everyone else did, dear. It's that simple. You're a precious soul Tasha and one worth saving; so take it easy and keep everything simple, okay. It can only get better from here; we promise.
~God Bless~
P.S. The part of step 12 which seems appropriate somehow goes something like this: "Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of working the steps". Doesn't that say it all Tasha?. If we work the steps dear, we awaken spiritually. So please do...
-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 17th of March 2012 11:21:39 PM
FWIW the 'fake it til you make it' line helped me immensely in the early days. I took it to mean that all this stuff I was being bombarded with - this whole new life I was trying to get my head around when my head wasn't in a good enough place to help me even tie up my shoelaces - was something that I had to stick with even if I didn't understand any of it and had no idea if I was doing it right or not. Don't drink and keep 'faking' it until my head could catch up to where my body was. It also gave me hope that even though I was as confused as all hell then that I wouldn't have to fake it forever and I would understand things sooner or later. It was right and I did.
Sometimes you can overthink things too. I wanted to know why it worked early on. What was the trick? Why does talking to an alkie help me stay sober? What part of me is helped by me listing my defects? etc etc.
Now I just don't care. As long as it does work - and boy does it work - I'm no longer interested in pulling back the curtain to have a peek.
We a lot more alike than we are different. In early sobriety we're not going to be able to figure it out. If we could, we wouldn't be here. Our best thinking brought us here. 