What is the line between someone helping and someone not minding their own side of the street?

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

What is the line between someone helping and someone not minding their own side of the street?

rrib · Senior Member

From widipedia.org:

A protracted alcohol withdrawal syndrome occurs in many alcoholics where withdrawal symptoms continue beyond the acute withdrawal stage but usually at a subacute level of intensity and gradually decreasing with severity over time. This syndrome is also sometimes referred to as the post acute withdrawal syndrome. Some withdrawal symptoms can linger for at least a year after discontinuation of alcohol. Symptoms can include a craving for alcohol, inability to feel pleasure from normally pleasurable things (also known as anhedonia), clouding of sensorium, disorientation, nausea and vomiting or headache.^[15] Insomnia is also a common protracted withdrawal symptom which persists after the acute withdrawal phase of alcohol. Insomnia has also been found to influence relapse rate. Studies have found that magnesium or trazodone can help treat the persisting withdrawal symptom of insomnia in recovering alcoholics. Insomnia can be difficult to treat in alcoholics because many of the traditional sleep aids (e.g. benzodiazepine receptor agonists and barbiturate receptor agonists) work via a GABA_A receptor mechanism and are cross tolerant with alcohol. However, trazodone is not cross tolerant with alcohol.^[16]^[17]^[18] The acute phase of the alcohol withdrawal syndrome can also occasionally be protracted. Protracted delirium tremens has been reported in the medical literature as a possible but unusual feature of alcohol withdrawal.

Early sobriety was an emmotional roller-coaster ride for me. But the peaks and valleys smooth out over time. Just hang in there.

-- Edited by rrib on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 11:34:43 AM

Christine63 · Veteran Member

20 days sober....

In the beginning of my journey I went to meetings every single day. Withdrawals got really bad last week and I stayed in bed for 3 days in a row.

When I came back & was asked where I'd been, I was honest.

But someone asked me if I had started drinking again and told me I should just tell the group and start over in my counting. Even though it was posed as a question..it turned into more of an encouragement to share my slip (that didn't happen).

Then, last night before the meeting, I was telling some of the ladies I was feeling pretty rough, physically & I was asked if I was craving alcohol and thinking about alcohol.

At the moment, I'm not, but did comment I was having really strong cravings for a cigarette (I quit smoking 9 months ago).

During the share on honesty, someone stated that if we claimed to not be craving alcohol, we were not being honest with ourselves and others. The same person said a few other things that were directly related to the conversation we had before the meeting.

I'm so sick from withdrawals right now that I don't want alcohol. It turns my stomach to think about it and I don't ever want to have to go through this again. I imagine that down the line - or even tomorrow, I may be faced with alcohol cravings, but right now, I'm not.

I was telling the truth in both these instances, but I was not believed. I'm not getting all wound up about it - because, frankly, I'm too sick to drum up the energy for it, but I'm really disappointed in this attitude.

Am I just being too sensitive? Are they really trying to help, but just not being very tactful about it or are they truly crossing the line?

Thanks for your input.

C

gonee · MIP Old Timer

The word "craving" in the Dr Opinion of the AA book refers to a physical allergy of the body. It's got nothing to do with our mind. The craving for alcohol only starts after we have succumbed to the 1st drink, and after that there is no control over the amount of alcohol we take. This is not a sin or a moral problem, it's a biological phenomenon as stated by Dr Silkworth. You will need medical attention, not for the craving but for abnormal condition of the body at present. You will also need nutrition and lots of vitamins. AA is not a medical place and offers no advice whatsoever. It only offers a 12 step program to repair our spiritual condition, which ultimately results in permanent sobriety.
Every time I was sick from drinking, I got sober. I vowed never to drink. As soon as I got well enough, my mind changed the story and I started drinking again. This process was repeated over and over until I started sincerely working the steps of recovery as suggested by AA.

John · Admin

Hi Christine

I can't really say one way or the other. However, I do know that when I was 20 days clean and sober, everything was personalized to me....in my world. Simply because I was still trying to figure everything out and it never would have crossed my mind that they would "say that" or "talk like that" to any one in front of them under similar circumstances at that time. And personalizing it caused me a lot of unnecessary hard feelings or discomfort around them.

It also took me a while to say, "No, but I appreciate your concern"... and walk away. Of course, I did this with the best look of suspicion I could muster, so they could think what they wanted and I could have some fun letting them. :)

Heck, I had a very funny experience one time.... I was 2 years sober, and asked by a woman in the program with double digit sobriety to go to a crack house with her to pick up up one of her sponsee's who had released. It was around 1am and she didn't feel safe just showing up there with another woman. The sponsee had asked for help and her sponsor couldn't handle just leaving her there. So, I agreed to roll with her. We got there, was let in and shown the room her sponsee was in. We collected her little meger belongings, and were heading out of the house, and the sponsee, turns to us and says, "I know I can't keep this" and hands me a wad of money. I stick it in my pocket and we get out of there.

Within 3 days, rumors were all over the rooms. John was at a crack house at 1am, and had a woman there turning tricks for him and giving him the money! Some bozo from the rooms, who had also relapsed was there, and had come out of his room to get another crack rock from someone there, and saw me, and heard and saw her hand me the money.

Well, I was extremely mad at first. My almighty reputation was being attacked! To make a long story short, I told my sponsor about this. He laughed. He said when someone ask me how I'm doing I should reply, "I'm doing alright, I just need to stop smoking crack and find a real job"

Two years later, this woman of ill repute, who was turning tricks for me in a crack house, got 2 years clean and when she spoke at her first speaker meeting, she said.... "two people here came and got me, and saved my life. There was a rumor that they were smoking crack and the man was having woman in the rooms who relapsed, turn tricks and give him the money. I had handed him the money so I wouldn't be tempted to go get anymore. Tonight, John handed me an envelop with the money I had handed him 2 years ago."

Everyone laughed so hard. Since then, in my 22 years of sobriety I have said at least 1000 times, "I need to stop smoking crack and get a real job" when asked how I'm doing. Those that know me know what it means and where it comes from... those that don't... well, they run around telling everyone I said I was smoking crack.... and someone besides me tells them the truth.

Entertainment comes in all sorts of ways on this journey. "Don't take yourself so seriously" and learn to turn those bad moments into something of humor and you'll be alright.

John

Mike B. · MIP Old Timer

Good morning C, Alcoholics are sensitive people. When I entered AA I was full of fear and everything bothered me. I was in fact: "taking myself and life way to seriously". Always had.

A Sponsor guided me on my journey and was very helpful in keeping me focused on priority one- staying sober and working The Program. What others did and said was " none of my business". He taught me to have fun with my diesase. Having fun with it takes the power aware from it.

I also learned what others said and did was more a reflection of them and their reality, then anything I did or said. I am powerless over people, places, and things.

Even today, I take care of Mike and everyone benefits and everything seems to just fall into place. Order: God, Mike and everyone else.

Christine63 · Veteran Member

I figured I might be over sensitive right now, so that's why I asked.

I never thought that answering simple questions (where were you?, how are you feeling? are you wanting alcohol?) would be things I should only talk to a sponsor about. If this is the case, then why do people ask these questions? Not trying to be argumentative - just curious why people with longer sobriety don't seem to know better. I don't think I was "baring my soul" or anything. I guess I'll just stay more private.

Thanks for the feedback.

The Addiction Club · Senior Member

Ahh the mother hen syndrome lol. There's really no written rule Christine regarding what an old timer can and will ask, It's common sense really. I don't agree with that style of questioning but I understand it. Some genuinely care about our welfare and our sobriety, while others just like to stir it up a bit, don't let it get to you. Pay attention to how she acts with others before passing judgement, she may truly be concerned. If she's just being nosey and likes to spread gossip, let God handle it and turn it over, there's a lesson in there somewhere for you.

Christine63 · Veteran Member

RRIB - weirdly enough, I'm already on Trazodone. I take a small dose nightly to help with sleep issues. I have a DR appt this afternoon to see if I can get some relief - I'm going through intense headaches and can't function much.

Yes, I'm on a bit of a roller coaster and I'm sorry if I'm being a drama queen, I'm really trying to watch how I come across. I'm just in a bit of a bad spot right now with being unable to find a sponsor, but I have a meeting tonight that is attended by someone that I will be asking for help/advice in getting one.

TAC - this isn't an old-timer, it's someone that just picked up a 5 month chip last night. I think she's just trying to be helpful, but she's doing the "bull in a china shop" thing. I'll try to be more tolerant.

The Addiction Club · Senior Member

Sorry Christine, I thought we were talking about somebody with time in the program. My bad.

Christine63 · Veteran Member

No worries - I didn't specify.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

Christine63 wrote:

During the share on honesty, someone stated that if we claimed to not be craving alcohol, we were not being honest with ourselves and others.

Rubbish. I drank everyday from wake til sleep for 15 years and since I stopped I've had three occasions where I had to hold onto my seat until the urge to drink passed. None of them lasted more than ten minutes and the first wasn't until about day 45 ish. I don't think about drinking and don't even aknowledge the existance of alcohol unless I'm involved in AA stuff or it's right in my face like an ad on TV.

Why? Little old 'didn't belive in anything' got a big whack on the head with the spiritual stick and woke up one day a changed man.

Point being they don't and can't know it all and your honesty is something that is between you and your Maker. As long as you are honest in that relationship you should find that those that wish to comment on how they see your recovery will become background noise and eventially you won't notice it.

Prayers.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

What Frodo said ^^^^^^ I prayed every day, for the first 6 months, for my Higher Power to "remove the obsession to drink (and drug) from me". I completed my 4&5 steps at the end of my 6 month and I have never had serious thought or compulsion to drink. And especially in hard times, never crossed my mind. And like Frodo, I was a daily drinker for about 15 years. I also quit drugs and cigarettes on the same day as booze, sent them all down the road together. Never looked back.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Christine....you are doing really well and everyone here is identifying with what you are talking about. Starting in AA is difficult and highly emotional. Be true to yourself and keep up the hard work. Of course you are going to be sensitive, of course there are some whack jobs in AA to watch out for....this is all a lot to think about so "keeping it simple" is crucial. You didn't drink for 20 days in a row! Rock on slam dunk! It's that simple sometimes.

Mark

Christine63 · Veteran Member

Yep, Mark, You're right.

Generally I'm pretty tolerant and tactful and even-headed, but all of that went out the window. The changes I'm going through right now - well, I'm just not me at the moment, although I'm seeing with a bit more clarity and time goes on.

I gotta stop worrying about other people and just focus on me. :)

Onward to day 22!

Mike B. · MIP Old Timer

Way to go Christine! Take care of you and everything else falls into place. smile

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Good suggestions here Christine...please take them to heart and let no one question your resolve -as it pertains to sobriety. It's what's in you're heart that matters most of all Christine, so continue what your doing and forgo the politics, for now.

-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 25th of February 2012 03:55:32 PM

Christine63 · Veteran Member

Thanks David - I guess the whole politics, gossip and drama thing really just caught me off guard. I just need to weed through and take what is important and disregard the rest. The BS did threaten my sobriety off and on, so I need to just pay attention to ME and MY recovery.

On to day 23.

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Christine63 wrote:
Thanks David - I guess the whole politics, gossip and drama thing really just caught me off guard. I just need to weed through and take what is important and disregard the rest. The BS did threaten my sobriety off and on, so I need to just pay attention to ME and MY recovery.

On to day 23.

Excellent idea Christine. Remember, you might be new to "AA" but you're not new to the world. The only antidote I found which could combat that type of behavior is also a sober one as well, and it doesn't involve politics. It pertains to us directly and it involves growth. So keep growing, my friend, and never give up hope. We won't, either should you.

-- Edited by Mr_David on Sunday 26th of February 2012 02:28:02 AM

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Christine...Great post and it reminds me of being in the same condition when I first got into recovery. Pretty much I was a loner and somewhat anti-social so being in groups...some upwards of 40 or more made me itchy and sensitive with all of the personalities swimming around the room. Scared the crap out of me and thats really what my reactions were saying...I'm afraid. The slogan that gave me grace was "Take what you like and leave the rest" and that gave me tons of permission and grace to let go of lots of uncomfortable stuff and just accept the pieces that were working for the moment. I wasn't running away so there would be a future and "just for today" I was doing small pieces without making it look like I was blowing everybody off.

The feedback you've gotten is right-on from others who have been there and done that also. That is what I hang with cause it works.

Keep coming back...on to 23 smile

Christine63 · Veteran Member

Hi Jerry - you really hit on some good points. I spend most of my days alone. During the day, I take care of an elderly gentleman who sleeps most of the day. I also own my own business, which is mostly working by myself on the computer or sometimes meeting with 1-3 customers for about an hour (I'm an expert in my field, so I don't have any issue talking business with them, but if I had to socialize and make small talk - I'd be screwed). I don't have many friends and rarely talk on the phone. I'm married, but all of our children are grown, so it's just the two of us at home, now.

Suddenly I am in meetings of 60+ people and it's overwhelming. I've had some ladies give me their phone numbers, but I've never called anyone. It just seems weird to me to call people I don't know. I just can't bring myself to do it (perhaps I should say *won't* - there's nothing wrong with my dialing fingers).

So, yes, I'm pretty solitary and this sudden new life filled with strangers is scary.

Not sure how to deal with that.

On to day 24 :)

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

Christine63 wrote:

So, yes, I'm pretty solitary and this sudden new life filled with strangers is scary.

Not sure how to deal with that.

Same way you'll keep sober: One day at a time and remembering that this, too, shall pass.

It is daunting at first. I shook like a leaf during my first share and I'm not someone that is any good at small talk either. I talk 'shop' if I'm stuck. That's always a good way to avoid awkward silences and a chance to learn something.

It'll get easier though. You are trusting those people with your life and they are trusting you with theirs. You rarely build bonds stronger than that.

You'll get there. You're going through a transition period so things can get a bit overwhelming at times but if you look at the promises of AA you'll see that you'll figure out the right way to handle these situations in time. All of those promises are spot on. They won't steer you wrong.