Im wondering just what is in my life as far as a higher power and what one can do to make sure its ok. Whatever I believe in has definently kept me sober and I can feel/ see the spiritual prescence in my life, but how does one know if there higher power is ok??? Ive just sorta believed god is a "force in the world that looks after everything" and thats what I believed when I came to AA, and again, I was baptized as an anglican christian but I never followed it or considered myself christian/religious in any way...how do you tell if your higher power is ok or not???....and ultimately, am i allowed to freely believe in whatever I see as god to me??
Hi Closer,
Some good topics to bring up. Yes, the Oxford group which AA spun off did have religous roots. I was brought up Methodist/Christian but I don't consider myself religous, Christian or belong to a church etc. That's just me, I'm not anti-church just feel my time is better spent in a AA room and thats where God wants me.
It sounds like your concept of a HP is working for you, stay with it. To start with the steps we just need to believe there is a God and we're not it.
We come to know God better after step 9. We just keep working the 3d step everyday and stay in the process working the other steps, getting our house in order and being of service to God, the group and others.
I don't think I really have a much better understanding of my Higher Power/God than I did 27 years ago, although I have much more faith and a better understanding of what his will is for me today.
It has been amazing to see God's works over the years. As our book says "faith without works is dead", the spirituality is in the process and carrying out his will.
Our program/book does not pretend to have a monopoly on God, nor did they profess exact "undertanding" of God. They just tell us to believe in a God of "our" understanding.
Personally, If someone tells you they fully understand God and have all the answers, I would run like hell...
Take care, Rob
-- Edited by Rob84 on Friday 17th of February 2012 04:31:36 AM
__________________
Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Ive got a question about the AA program and Im wondering if anyone here knows how to answer it. I was reading the stuff on the wikipedia about alcoholics anonymous and it says the programs beginnings sprung from a christian movement in the 1920s and 30s called the oxford group. Im really wondering where the roots of this program are from and if this is correct. When I was born I was baptized as an anglican christian but I never followed it or considered myself a religious person in any way. Im wondering just what is in my life as far as a higher power and what one can do to make sure its ok. Whatever I believe in has definently kept me sober and I can feel/ see the spiritual prescence in my life, but how does one know if there higher power is ok??? Ive just sorta believed god is a "force in the world that looks after everything" and thats what I believed when I came to AA, and again, I was baptized as an anglican christian but I never followed it or considered myself christian/religious in any way...how do you tell if your higher power is ok or not???....and ultimately, am i allowed to freely believe in whatever I see as god to me??
You are completely free to believe in your own conception of a higher power. The founders and fellowship found this so important they wrote it into the steps- God as you understand him! Man I need to get another Big book, because my recollection on how AA came to be is a bit hazy and I hate to mislead you on how AA came to be, but I encourage you to read Bill's story and Dr. bobs story. Many of the ideas from the Oxford group are in AA, but they are spiritual truths and actions that are universal- not unique to AA or the Oxford groups. Probably drunks helping drunks is a little more unique to AA, and that we abstain from trying to deal with anything more than alcoholics trying to stay sober- we don't get into politics or religion as a group. I am sure other more experienced members can answer this question a little better.
I love the question you asked in regards to how do you tell if your higher power is OK or not? For me I asked this alot but not like if it was OK by AA standards but more like, If I choose the wrong God won't the real God be pissed off at me? For me- and others may have a different experience, I try to keep it simple. I decided God was much bigger than definition or understanding. That as long as I was seeking, He, It or the Great Whatever would show itself to me when the time was right. For my conception I choose to believe in the stuff I know in my gut to be true- Love, compassion, truth, light are all good, and seem to conquer all. Another trick when I have struggled and had a sponsor was to use Good Orderly Direction- listen to her for awhile as the fog clears. Probably should have stuck to that!! Anyhow, good luck, keep searching and asking the questions. You will get many answers but the right ones for you will just resonate with you.
You reminded me of one that I really struggled with- people saying You just have to have faith! I would think- well hell, I would love to, but I don't so how do I get it? I learned over time to develope faith I had to take actions that really didn't make much sence to me, and after I took those actions faith began to happen.
It is true that the Oxford Group provided a foundation that A.A. grew upon.
In my opinion the idea of God as I understand God is an important idea. Not having to conform to someone else idea of a Higher Power certainly helped ME to stick around.
And there's always the 11th step 'Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him ...' for those of us who seem to always be searching.
Hi Closer, I was born a Hindu. When I discovered that AA had it's roots in 1st century Christianity from the Oxford group, I started to investigate it. I found so many wonderful things and eventually my family and I also became Christians. My AA/ Christian life has been one of the best I could ever wish for.
My 2 adult children also got saved, and my son who was drinking alcohol in college stopped completely and started to live this new life. The AA book says that God does not make too harsh a terms with those who seek. I had an open mind and I found God to be faithful with His promises in the Bible.
Thanks for the topic. You certainly picked a good question Closer, that's for sure. Life would not be the same without a purpose to claim as our own, now would it? It seems daunting, though, doesnt it? Finding a spiritual connection, I mean. Sobriety does offer some rewards, but extending that beyond a reasonable limit can be far greater than ever imagined. It's an arena where true happiness resides, and for this recovering alcoholic, a place of spiritual renewal. That's the easy part, now comes the difficult one...where to begin.
It was simple, for me. I chose to re-explore my roots, so to say. I renewed my faith along with my virtues. The tricky part for some people, however, is the part about faith. Tapping some divine resource somewhere in search for a greater meaning in life, will be the defining moment to any alcoholics existence. But where that takes us is truly ours to discover. So, where do we begin?
That's up to you, really. "AA" doesn't suggest certain deities; just a need to improve upon our spiritual conditioning, and with a higher power of 'our' choosing. It's that simple. Whatever the inevitable outcome may be is not in "AA's" best interest, but yours. "AA" doesn't force this upon anyone, and should be taken with the same sober demeanor as did our initial surrender.
Forging a relationship with anyone may seem difficult, but if that relationship includes a "higher power" than the options get that much harder. There are so many choices, but only one real option...your own. It might have started with "AA", but where it goes from there is totally up to you. I hope this helps.
You can tell if what you are believing in as your Higher Power is okay or not, by whether or not it's working for you. Are you staying sober? Are you living a life beyond one you could create for yourself which gives you joy and purpose?
Is your Higher Power one you are willing to put faith in?
If so,... you are okay...
Keep in mind, we read this in every meeting...
"God could and would if He were sought".
Continue to be a seeker... and your Higher Power will reveal Himself to you in many ways, ....
thanks everyone for the advice. Maybe Ill get involved with the church in the future...dont know. I somewhat believe the christian saying "This is all gods perfect plan, wherever you are is where he intends you to be"...Im not a christian, but perhaps im meant to be in aa, perhaps Ill be in a church in the furture...or somewhere else....
The program of Alcholics Anonymous is based on many of the principles of the Oxford group. The Oxford group was a very religeous organization where AA is a spiritual program. For the Higher Power in your life John's reply was great but I would ask is your spiritual program progressing?
Correct me if I am wrong but it also reads to me that you are wondering if the god of your understand is a god from which will you receive salvation, I only see that from my own experience. That is a question only you can answer. I was raised in the catholic church and the god of my understang at that time didn't work for me in this program. My first higher power was the people in my AA groups. As I worked the program and came to the God of my understanding it was a christian God and today though not a catholic I am a Christian.
The program of Alcholics Anonymous is based on many of the principles of the Oxford group. The Oxford group was a very religeous organization where AA is a spiritual program. For the Higher Power in your life John's reply was great but I would ask is your spiritual program progressing?
Correct me if I am wrong but it also reads to me that you are wondering if the god of your understand is a god from which will you receive salvation, I only see that from my own experience. That is a question only you can answer. I was raised in the catholic church and the god of my understang at that time didn't work for me in this program. My first higher power was the people in my AA groups. As I worked the program and came to the God of my understanding it was a christian God and today though not a catholic I am a Christian.
Im not sure what to say. Something is telling me to join the church and Ive been looking into it, but Im not sure if Im ready to do that big of a thing. Ive talked to my mother and she thinks getting involved with the church is a good idea, and so do I, but Im not sure if I am able to conform to all the ideas/ beliefs of christian life, although I think it could be good. Ive been using AA for nearly a year, and my higher power AS I UNDERSTAND IT, is keeping me sober and and I find Im finding the old me which I lost years ago by doing it...Im not sure what you mean by finding salvation, does that mean that god is going to save me, or something about going to heaven?... Ive been going through a really hard time in the last few years with drinking, a health problem, and a relationship with a girl that didnt work out and Im partially wanting to join to join the church because Ive heard people saying that the church can bring a "spark" back into your life which is something Ive lost...
The main reasons Im asking these questions is because I want to make sure that my understanding of god is healthy and ok, and while I dont consider myself religious much at all, I somehow feel that the christian church would be the way to go if I do get involved with something...Id like to be involved with the church because I feel if I was following proper christianity, it would be all ok, but I just dont know if I can conform to the whole way of life... I just feel that if I was sitting in a church on sunday the proper way, I would know that my higher power is ok, but it just seems like a lot of stuff to take on...
Ive got a question for you too DanB, If I did in fact join the church is there 700 million rules I need to follow?, will I be forced to do all kinds of things with other church members, will I have to take courses, or will I be freely allowed to come and go as I please to do sunday worship and things outside the church?? is there a huge commitment or could I just go about my regular life with some guidelines and come into church perhaps once a week or so?? (I dont know much about this stuff)
This article is written by nationally recognized historian and oft-quoted Alcoholics Anonymous archivist Mitchell K.
The study of the history of Alcoholics Anonymous begins way before its actual founding. Much of the history begins with the Temperance movements of the mid-1800's. One of these movements was the Washington Temperance Society or the Washingtonians.
Several self-admitted drunkards founded this movement not in Washington, D.C. but in Baltimore, Maryland. These men met in, of all places, a tavern to form the movement.
It grew in leaps and bounds with parades, Temperance Pledges and hospitals. It eventually grew to such proportions that they forgot what their original intentions were. They recruited politicians and celebrities. Everyone was "taking the pledge." A movement first started by alcoholics, for alcoholics, eventually became open to everyone and was watered-down so much that eventually it began to disappear.
Several other movements for alcoholics developed afterwards from which AA took several components to incorporate into their program of recovery. One of these, Peabodyism, named after Richard Peabody, a therapist from the Boston, Mass. area.
Later when Mr. Peabody moved to the Gramercy Park area of New York City his office was very close to Calvary Episcopal Church where the Rev. Samuel M. Shoemaker, Jr. was Pastor.
The Oxford Group
The next movement was the Oxford Group. This movement which began around 1908 was originally called "A First Century Christian Fellowship" was begun by Frank N.D. Buchman, a Lutheran minister from Pennsylvania.
The Oxford Group was focused upon changing the world, "One Person at a Time." At Oxford Group "House Parties," members "surrendered" on their knees and gave testimony (or shared) of their deliverance from their "sin" of alcoholism, smoking, etc.
Around 1940 the Oxford Group changed its name to Moral Re-Armament. This movement still exists today with offices worldwide.
Bill W. was introduced to the Oxford Group by Ebby T., an old boyhood friend in November of 1934. He was a drinking buddy of Bill's who had gotten "religion" through the Oxford Group after being introduced to it by Rowland H.
Rowland reportedly had been in therapy with Dr. Carl G. Jung in Switzerland. Dr. Jung had told Rowland, according to official AA history that there was no hope for him. No hope that is, unless he were to experience a "vital spiritual experience."
Rowland reportedly was introduced to the Oxford Group by Dr. Jung and then passed the message along to Ebby.
Recent research by Wally P., (archivist and historian) has turned up Rowland's personal records, which are at the Providence Historical Society in Providence, Rhode Island. Rowland's personal records do not indicate that he was in Switzerland during the period stated in most AA history books.
Bill W's "Success"
Bill W.'s drinking had progressed to such a point that in 1933 he was admitted to Towns Hospital in New York City. This was the first of four hospitalizations for alcoholism between 1933-1934. It was at Towns Hospital that Dr. William Duncan Silkworth declared him a hopeless alcoholic.
According to Norman Vincent Peale, Dr. Silkworth said the Great Physician, Jesus Christ, could cure alcoholics who were declared hopeless. Again, another person who said that only a vital spiritual experience would "cure" the alcoholic.
Soon after Ebby's visit with him, Bill was admitted for the last time to Towns Hospital in December 1934. It was during this hospitalization that Bill experienced his "white light" spiritual experience. Bill reported this experience to Dr. Silkworth and was soon after released from the hospital never to drink alcohol again until his death in 1971.
Bill attended Oxford Group meetings, went to the Calvary Mission and began working with other Alcoholics. He did not have much success at getting them sober during the first five months, but was told by his wife, Lois, that he had remained sober for the first time in many years.
Though Bill had considered himself a dismal failure due to his inability to get anyone sober, he did finally realize through Lois' help that he was a success. He was a success because he had stayed sober.
All I can add to all the good replies to this post is...Alcoholics Anonymous didn't open the Gates of Heaven so I could get in.. it opened the Gates of Hell so I could get out!
Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age: A Brief History of AA is an AA book that is an excellent foundation for learning about the roots, heart and soul of our program and the 12 steps.
The program of Alcholics Anonymous is based on many of the principles of the Oxford group. The Oxford group was a very religeous organization where AA is a spiritual program. For the Higher Power in your life John's reply was great but I would ask is your spiritual program progressing?
Correct me if I am wrong but it also reads to me that you are wondering if the god of your understand is a god from which will you receive salvation, I only see that from my own experience. That is a question only you can answer. I was raised in the catholic church and the god of my understang at that time didn't work for me in this program. My first higher power was the people in my AA groups. As I worked the program and came to the God of my understanding it was a christian God and today though not a catholic I am a Christian.
Im not sure what to say. Something is telling me to join the church and Ive been looking into it, but Im not sure if Im ready to do that big of a thing. Ive talked to my mother and she thinks getting involved with the church is a good idea, and so do I, but Im not sure if I am able to conform to all the ideas/ beliefs of christian life, although I think it could be good. Ive been using AA for nearly a year, and my higher power AS I UNDERSTAND IT, is keeping me sober and and I find Im finding the old me which I lost years ago by doing it...Im not sure what you mean by finding salvation, does that mean that god is going to save me, or something about going to heaven?... Ive been going through a really hard time in the last few years with drinking, a health problem, and a relationship with a girl that didnt work out and Im partially wanting to join to join the church because Ive heard people saying that the church can bring a "spark" back into your life which is something Ive lost...
The main reasons Im asking these questions is because I want to make sure that my understanding of god is healthy and ok, and while I dont consider myself religious much at all, I somehow feel that the christian church would be the way to go if I do get involved with something...Id like to be involved with the church because I feel if I was following proper christianity, it would be all ok, but I just dont know if I can conform to the whole way of life... I just feel that if I was sitting in a church on sunday the proper way, I would know that my higher power is ok, but it just seems like a lot of stuff to take on...
Ive got a question for you too DanB, If I did in fact join the church is there 700 million rules I need to follow?, will I be forced to do all kinds of things with other church members, will I have to take courses, or will I be freely allowed to come and go as I please to do sunday worship and things outside the church?? is there a huge commitment or could I just go about my regular life with some guidelines and come into church perhaps once a week or so?? (I dont know much about this stuff)
