Welcome to "MIP". I'd like to weigh in, if I may. I suppose what your asking is this: Am I an alcoholic or not? Many of us accepted our fate without hesitation while others still had doubts. Some of us deferred their condition and wrote it off as nothing, while others accepted it. They referred to themselves as "heavy hitters" and not alcoholics. So the debate continued. Unfortunately, some of us didn't make it. They died never knowing what true freedom is really like. So I suggest you make an honest admission and put all doubts aside.
Let's face it; we all had doubts about our drinking at one time or another. So it's no surprise that you do too. We asked questions like: Am I truly an alcoholic or not? For me, it was simple. The answer was 'Yes' by a landslide, every time. That hasn't stopped my disease from fueling that debate even further, however. It comes with the territory, so deal with it. It's because of this obsessive thinking that we find ourselves in this mess in the first place, isn't it? So, what do we do?
I try not to question the logistics of my situation anymore, and whether I truly am an alcoholic or not. I find it more helpful to disengage entirely from that train of thought, worry less about the labeling, and focus simply on consequences. I try to remember certain instances, where the pains of drinking caused me regret. Then, I would create another scenario (or a different ending) that didn't involve alcohol, and how that would play out. And if drinking were a factor, how would this incident play out now, not afterwards. I would spend some time weighing all the options before I'd pass judgment. Then, you'll know. If there was ever a doubt to the extent of my alcoholism, then my last drunk -suffice it to say- would be my wake up call. That day, I almost drove my car under the wheels of a tractor trailer. How's those apples for you. No doubts from this end, but the choice is still yours. So, make the right one, for today.
If I ever find myself questioning the obvious, once again, than I need to remind myself of the painful reality, which is my alcoholism. I need to play the tape through, and take another glimpse of my probable future. A future that could have ended so abruptly, mind you. The course of action I need to take in regards to sobriety is the only choice worth living. And a sober choice I need to make every day. It's incredibly powerful to quickly scan through that roadmap of horror, line by line in plain English, and conclude that I would literally do anything not to repeat those mistakes, once again. And I hope the same can be said for you as well, one day at a time.
~God Bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Monday 6th of February 2012 12:17:31 AM
In the first paragraph of We Agnostics (Chapter 4) is states, "If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic."
As I read this, I can have either one or both maladies (that is, the mental compulsion or the physical allergy), and still be an alcoholic; that is, I do not have to have both.
Do any of you have a different opinion on this one?
Hi Martin, Thank you for this question. I would have died of alcoholism before this question was thoroughly answered. In the 1st few years of my drinking, I had developed a taste for alcohol and the effect it produced on me. I liked it. It solved all my problems. If things got out of hand, I would stop but I would go back as soon things got better. I was not physically allergic to alcohol because I could stop after a few drinks, but mentally I could not imagine living without alcohol. It was a problem solver and my mind liked it. My body was not a problem at this stage. I could have got cured at this stage of my drinking, if I had sought human help and redesigned the course of my life. I chose to drink and I eventually became a real alcoholic and my body also became physically allergic and I was not able to control the amount I took. Page 20 of the AA book describes the problem very well.
Many who are not real alcoholics can stop altogether or moderate their drinking. Those whom I sponsor, I tell them to thoroughly read the book and understand what a real alcoholic is. People in AA are shocked when an "AA" member goes back to moderate drinking. The BB book is very clear about this, because only a real alcoholic needs a spiritual experience to recover. The other types can recover on a non spiritual basis.
Some people on the other hand have died proving this fact and I did not want to be one of the statistics, so I stayed long enough in AA until I thoroughly understood. Today I can tell you with absolutely certainty that I am a real alcoholic.
Hello Martin and welcome to the board. Here's a good definition "An addiction is a pathological relationship (love to/have to) to a mood altering substance or event, that has life damaging consequences." I thought that I loved to drink, and I did. I later found out that I had to drink. Sure I could quit for days, weeks, even a month or two. But when I did drink, I could not be certain what would happen, or when I would stop. This is a progressive disease (it gets worse over time) and that was my experience. It's tough to watch (from a couple decades of sobriety) folks in the earlier stages, trying to figure it out, knowing that most will have to have a significant number of losses (marriage, career, reputation, finances, health, any form of shelter....) before their denial breaks down and willingness and desperation set in. It's one of our main goals here to help people see the light, early on, before the train runs them over. Take the sage advise offered here. Quit while you're ahead, save years of anguish, humiliation, heartbreak, and losses. Think about this, there is not one single good reason to drink, not one. Yet why do we look so hard for the right to? If you are wondering, questioning your drinking, you likely have a drinking problem. It's either that or someone is hanging out with a group of heavy drinkers. If that's case then stepping away from that group would solve the problem. If someone is drinking alone, then this cannot be the case. Hope this helps.
It took a while for me to see my consequences of drinking as an allergic reaction. As Dean stated, the disease is progressive and it takes a while to reach the point of still drinking even though it is so obvious that it causes serious impairments in our life. I have yet to meet anyone that was obsessed with alchohol who eventually did not develop some sort of major problems in the area of health, finances, or spiritual well being.
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Thank you everyone. Of course you are right. If I do step aside from this question and look at the wreckage (physical, mental, financial, relationships, etc.) I can clearly see the problems my alcoholism has caused me and others. But this question keeps rearing its ugly head. I sometimes have harboured the idea that you all would eventually find me out for being a "fraud". I live in a family where if you are not slobbering on the barstool or passing out on the sidewalk, you cannot possibly be a drunk. For awhile there, family members kept offering me drinks just to temp me back out of AA. I guess they cannot condemn you if you are taking action to solve the problem. But the fact is (as you clearly pointed out) I was not hanging out with the heavy drinkers on a daily basis if much at all; I was drinking alone. And I was drinking alone to kill my anxieties, frustrations, emotional doubt, fears and resentments which were resounding in my head all day long. Some of that has resided now. I have a sponsor. I am working the steps. But every few days or so, I look back at Step One and my mind starts taking off. The next question would be.... Is my urge to drink strong enough, is it weaker or greater than yours or any other alcoholic....what if my mental obsession changes....and other useless questions at this point. I drank like an alcoholic. I went to a shrink once who suggested I was alcoholic. My sponsor has affirmed I am alcoholic. Jeeeese, my wife even threatened to leave me if I didn't stop drinking because she did not want to live with an alcoholic. I am sure there must still be another way that I can cast doubt on my disease. Slowly but thankfully I am losing that fantasy that I am different from every other alcoholic. Your responses have been encouraging. So I will take your advice and step out of the debate altogether. All it will do is lead me back outside. And as you said, I might die before I finally thoroughly answer the questions.
Martin, we all did this dance. My first (and greatest) Sponsor (John Renks RIP) called it "Mental masturbation". He was a retired psychologist, 30 years at the Pentagon. Have you read the "Jaywalker Parable" in the Bib Book?
On pages 37-38 in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous it says:
"Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of skipping in front of fast-moving vehicles. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun. Luck then deserts him and he is slightly injured several times in succession. You would expect him, if he were normal, to cut it out. Presently he is hit again and this time has a fractured skull. Within a week after leaving the hospital a fast-moving trolley car breaks his arm. He tells you he has decided to stop jay-walking for good, but in a few weeks he breaks both legs."
"On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promises to be careful or to keep off the streets altogether. Finally, he can no longer work, his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He tries every known means to get the jaywalking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways. But the day he comes out he races in front of a fire engine, which breaks his back. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he?"
"You may think our illustration is too ridiculous. But is it? We, who have been through the wringer, have to admit if we substituted alcoholism or any addiction for jay-walking, the illustration would fit exactly. However intelligent we may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. It's strong language but isn't it true?"
Dear Martin, Our disease will try to lie to us, to convince us we are not alcoholic, to rationalize our drinking, and to keep us sick...until it kills us.
When I start to question my alcoholism, despite the fact that it nearly killed me, that I suffered incomprehensible demoralization, that I nearly lost my children, my career, my home, I know my disease is talking. My disease is waiting for me, doing pushups while I am going through life, watching for weakness and an opportunity to pounce. I must be vigilant and work a strong recovery program, praying daily for sobriety and actively working with other alcoholics regularly. I must keep "working it", doing step work, service work, attending meetings, keeping spiritually fit, to maintain my sobriety.
This is no joke, this is life and death. I wish you growth, healing, and continual progress in recovery, one day at a time. Remember, you are worth it! Heather
Welcome Martin, your alcoholic ok I diagnosed you now on to step one :) just kidding, all thats required is "A DESIRE TO QUIT DRINKING" AA= Absolute Abstinence
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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
I was drinking alone. And I was drinking alone to kill my anxieties, frustrations, emotional doubt, fears and resentments which were resounding in my head all day long. Some of that has resided now. I have a sponsor. I am working the steps. But every few days or so, I look back at Step One and my mind starts taking off. The next question would be.... Is my urge to drink strong enough, is it weaker or greater than yours or any other alcoholic....what if my mental obsession changes....and other useless questions at this point. I drank like an alcoholic. I went to a shrink once who suggested I was alcoholic. My sponsor has affirmed I am alcoholic. Jeeeese, my wife even threatened to leave me if I didn't stop drinking because she did not want to live with an alcoholic
Hey Martin, Welcome.
Food for thought, non alcoholics don't wonder and debate whether they are alcoholic or not. Only alcoholics do. And the reason we do, is because deep down inside we don't want to have to give up the only thing that has ever made us feel normal, even though its burning our life to the ground now. When alcohol worked for me, it made me feel like other people looked me, happy and having it all together. It gave me a peace, even if it was for only a few minutes at the end. when normal people take a few drinks they get a feeling like they are gonna loose control, and they want to stop. When I take e few drinks I feel like i'm gonna get control, and I cant stop.
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
Only us alcoholics trip ourselves up by asking self-defeating questions and turning a simple program into something so complicated. I am not picking on you when I say that either...I am identifying cuz like others said....We all do it. The longer you are in recovery, the more you will recognize that self-talk as part of your disease and that it is just junk thinking. No matter how you wrap it up and make it sound viable, it's still a trussed up excuse to relapse. The good thing here is you told on yourself and that is what we do. You had some dangerous thinking that could have led to relapse and you got necessary feedback for sharing it. This type of sharing is needed until you can differentiate better what is the disease versus you talking.
Keep up the good work!
Mark
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 4th of February 2012 10:46:42 AM
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