am i allowed

gazadaza · Member

am i allowed

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hello Daza,

You can do whatever you want, But I think where you're getting the flack in meetings is broadcasting your "custom program". might be counter productive to folks who really need to work the program but hears that they don't have to.

Working the 12 steps may not be the only way, but it's the prescribed method in AA. It's ok to hang around and do it your way, but try to be careful not to discourage newcomers.

None of us were too keen on getting onto working the steps when we came in here. But when it comes down to "a mater of life or death" the answer is easy, you'll do it. Congrats on 5 months, I hope that it keeps working for you.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 23rd of December 2011 11:06:37 AM

gazadaza · Member

no wonder people get put off by aa by responses like that. so i have to keep my cards close to my chest just to save a program.you should join the minority in my meetings. another view of of my alcoholism not being real. i know its real pal.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Daza, I'm curious, what part of my reply to your question offended you? Try and be specific, instead of shooting down the whole thing.

gazadaza · Member

where do ya want me to start 1) your going to get someone killed2)not right to broadcast as you put it custom program 3) step out of myself. im not upset you seem to be the one with the attitude to freedom of speech in meetings. i go with a smile and come out with a smile and speak what i feel is relevant)
i didnt know aa was a closed shop for people with a 12 step recovery, and my present way is a way to the grave. i quit gambling thru my own strength and the people in the ga rooms and that will stay with me. if i do find myself in a position of cravings again i will reconsider but for now i do not feel the need for change. darren

John · Admin

AA does not hold the monopoly on sobriety, many people get sober going to church, others by going to therapy, others by joining Gold's Gym...

I applaude any alcoholic who gets sober and is able to stay sober, no matter what the method is...

However, if I'm going to go to AA meetings, be a part of a 12 Step program, participate in the fellowship of others who are working the 12 Steps... and NOT work the 12 Steps myself (as a part of treating my alcoholism) that is kinda like hangin out in a hospital lobby, when nothing is wrong with me and I have no intention of seeing a doctor. Hanging out in the lobby of the hospital won't reduce my chances of getting sick.

I do a whole variety of things to help me in my sobriety, but when I'm in a AA meeting, I share in relation to what I utilize of the AA program... so as to not separate myself from the fellowship... be a part of the common denominator, instead of the unique one in the crowd.

Dean is correct, we have a primary purpose... to carry "the message" of AA to the still sick and suffering alcoholic... not "my message". My message is likely to send a very ill version of recovery, but the message that Dr. Bob and Bill W asked us to share, has saved millions of lives.

Why are you going to meetings? Why are you participating in a 12 Step program, without working the 12 Steps?

To be quite frank.. that seems to be like sitting on a toilet with no intent of using it for what other people use a tiolet for. "I just like hanging out and act like I'm taking a shit."

LOL

John

-- Edited by John on Friday 23rd of December 2011 10:39:17 AM

LinBabaAgo-go · Senior Member

Why go to a meeting of -Alcoholics Anonymous- and be confused when you preach "anti alcoholics anonymous" rhetoric, which is a way of recovery -based on the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous-

On Saturdays do you go to Synagogue and tell Jews you have found God your own way, and on Sunday go to church and tell Christians the same?

What kind of response do you think you would get there?

Like John points out it's like going to the Gym and when seriously overweight people come through the door you telling them they don't need to work out to lose weight, and the only reason you are there isn't to work out, but to tell fat people they are doing it wrong and don't need to work out, WTF are you thinking????

Of course newcomers like your message, because "The Program" of AA requires actual -work- and you are telling them they don't have to, and Dean is right, many alcoholics -will- not be able to get sober using your method, and if they try -your method- and it doesn't work, they will leave AA thinking they have tried AA and that it doesn't work, so what you are doing is irresponsible beyond imagining, it's not a lot different then going to a pre-school and giving guns to children and telling them, "here, play with these, I have used this for 5 months and have never got hurt" or giving matches to children

Congratulations on 5 months, that is -fantastic- but if you go to AA meetings for the support, then STFU and get the support, have enough respect to not endanger the newcomers that come looking for the solution that AA has to offer, not what YOU have to offer, and if you think what YOU have to offer is so great, then start your OWN god damn recovery program

It's fantastic you have 5 months on your own, no AA member will ever belittle that or turn you away from a meeting if you want our support, but to go to meetings and spout -your own agenda- is discourteous, disrespectful, self centered to a delusional degree, and dangerous to others, and it says a LOT about your emotional state and cognitive dissonance that you can't see that.

-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Friday 23rd of December 2011 10:22:53 AM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hey Darren, first of all, no offense was intended by my post. I tried to choose my words carefully. Apparently I'm not allowed to speak freely either lol. 1.) by the time most people come to AA, they have tried quitting on their own a number of times and, unlike you, couldn't do it on their own. We're talking daily drinkers (mostly) that couldn't function, had lost all or most everything. You apparently drank on weekends and maintained a life during the week. Binge drinkers have a tough time with step one, as you stated in some of your first posts in August. For these people above, working the program isn't an option as they desperately needed to find a spiritual solution, and change their way of thinking to live. You're obviously not amongst this group. 2.) For that reason, hearing about someone doing it on their own, without a sponsor, without a higher power, and without working the steps (you've stated that none of these are for you in earlier posts) is a dangerous idea that usually leads to more drinking, and perhaps not making it back, getting another chance and some will die. 3.) No one said that you can't "speak freely" at meetings, you were asking why not everyone liked what you had to say, and you didn't like my answer to that question, gee, I guess that freedom of speech is only allowed if people agree with you. lol No comment was made about the future of your recovery, you're making it up now, I wished you well sincerely. Congrats on all of your progress, and in all of you addictions, that was said also. This is isn't about YOU, you seem to be doing just fine. Now please go back a reread your first few topics and see all of the encouragement that was given to you on this board. Happy Holidays

Dean

gazadaza · Member

to be quite frank i go to listen. i do service, go to meetings and thats it. i dont even think of a program, thats how i do it so do one. i wont go now because my ideas are not the same as yours on here, quite pathetic. im never goin to get anywhere here so i willquietly wander off to my grave.

LinBabaAgo-go · Senior Member

gazadaza wrote:
to be quite frank i go to listen. i do service, go to meetings and thats it. i dont even think of a program, thats how i do it so do one. i wont go now because my ideas are not the same as yours on here, quite pathetic. im never goin to get anywhere here so i willquietly wander off to my grave.

hahahahahahahahaha

the program is there to correct selfish, self centered behavior and emotional immaturity, you may want to give it a try

gazadaza · Member

who rattled your cage then.another spiritual/religious freak has emerged off this website

gazadaza · Member

LinBabaAgo-go wrote:
gazadaza wrote:
to be quite frank i go to listen. i do service, go to meetings and thats it. i dont even think of a program, thats how i do it so do one. i wont go now because my ideas are not the same as yours on here, quite pathetic. im never goin to get anywhere here so i willquietly wander off to my grave.
hahahahahahahahaha

the program is there to correct selfish, self centered behavior and emotional immaturity, you may want to give it a try

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

gazadaza, you're taking this all personal, you asked a question and didn't like the answer. Don't shoot the messenger. None of what has been presented to you is original material, read the book. http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm And let's talk more about it. smile

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 23rd of December 2011 10:38:36 AM

gazadaza · Member

ifeel so happy today i thought i would get everyone in the festive spirit with a little rant and see if i could cope with a few resentments, and i feel like ive achieved positive thinking. sorry for the misunderstanding guys

-- Edited by gazadaza on Friday 23rd of December 2011 10:43:50 AM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Peace brother, the last thing I wanted was a heated debate during the holidays, We're all family here.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 23rd of December 2011 08:27:29 PM

jj · MIP Old Timer

hi there, AA is for people who are looking for answers - and we find a lot of answers in the Big Book. have you read it or looked for "your story" in the stories told in it? AA is a program of doing the steps, not so much to stop drinking, but to grow as people, emotionally and spiritually. we have to be sober to understand the principles and live them. sobriety allows our brains to work and our hearts to understand. Personal Growth is the fruit AA bears in our life.... and spirituality is a result of doing the steps. doing service is wonderful, so keep up the good work. hugs from jj/sheila

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

John wrote:
To be quite frank.. that seems to be like sitting on a toilet with no intent of using it for what other people use a tiolet for. "I just like hanging out and act like I'm taking a shit."
LOL
John
.

-- Edited by John on Friday 23rd of December 2011 10:39:17 AM

I think that about sums it up.

-- Edited by turninggrey on Friday 23rd of December 2011 09:00:27 PM

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

I appreciate this thread. It's the Christmas Season and I get to think about all the fellowship of the programs I've participated in which brought me to my present state of sobriety, sanity and serenity. One of my elder sponsor is remembered clearly as he was taught me "If you don't want to raise a stink, don't poke at the sh!t." I can tell you Darren...I use to poke a lot until I came to understand and accept..."Crazy people do what I was doing for absolutely no clear reason in the world. I just needed some way of saying "I've arrived"!! and that was it." If you go to meetings to listen...with an open mind...you will find help. If you keep and open mind you will place yourself in the postion of be humble...teachable.

You didn't say how long you've been sitting as the student for recovery. Most of those who have responded to you here have sat in the student's chair for years and are still there learning; and still they have learned to tell you that it's okay for you to seek your own path and why it is best to allow and support others to do that themselves. You don't need anyone to affirm you...you do that yourself and others get to look at how it is coming out for you...the consequences.

You don't need anyone's permission to arrive at the consequences you are getting thru the choices you are making. Who you are today has always been your responsibility. Keep taking an active part in who you are turning out to be and if others don't like it...do an inventory and change the things you can...do nothing and stay the same...keep coming back.

Have a great Christmas...and of course don't drink or use. ((((hugs)))) smile

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

A lot of good points brought up. I think his topic is pretty well covered below on the 1st Tradition checklist below.

I've heard it said that people can sometimes stay sober for a couple years without working the steps...but a flat tire at the wrong moment will take them right back out

Tradition One: Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends
upon AA unity.
1. Am I in my group a healing, mending, integrating person, or am I divisive?
What about gossip and taking other members inventories?
2. Am I a peacemaker? Or do I, with pious preludes such as "just for the sake of
discussion," plunge into arguments.
3. Am I gentle with those who rub me the wrong way, or am I abrasive.
4. Do I make competitive remarks, such a comparing one group with another or
contrasting AA in one place with AA in another?
5. Do I put down some AA activities as if I were superior for not participating
in this or that aspect of AA?
6. Am I informed about AA as a whole? Do I support, in every way I can AA as a
whole or just the parts I understand and approve of?
7. Am I as considerate of AA members as I want them to be of me?
8 Do I spout platitudes about love while indulging in and secretly justifying
behavior that bristles with hostility?
9. Do I go to enough AA meetings or read enough AA literature to really keep in
touch?
10. Do I share with AA all of me, the bad and the good, accepting as well as
giving the help of fellowship.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Wow, Rob, learned something new, I've never seen that checklist. Where did that come from?

vixen · MIP Old Timer

I love that checklist! Wow...great questions to keep on hand to make sure your heart, and mouth, are on the right track. Thanks for that. :)

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

StPeteDean wrote:
Wow, Rob, learned something new, I've never seen that checklist. Where did that come from?

Dean, It's called the Grapevine Traditions checklist. I went to a one day conference regarding integrating the traditions in our lives a couple years ago, I never realized what great tools they can be regarding our personal lives/relationships even online forums probably. Maybe we can put them up as a sticky. Here is a link http://www.aadistrict52.org/GSOTraditions_20Checklist_from_GV.pdf

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Mahalo Rob...copied (less your personal info) and printed and will be taken to my home group. We will take it up some time soon I will intro it. Of course introducing the traditions in all our affairs too!

smile

BGG · Senior Member

Yes, thanks very much, Rob. An A.A. 12 and 12 study meeting I was going to weekly a few years back uses these while going through the Traditions in the 12 and 12. The questions all of the traditions were real eye openers for me. Was around in meetings over 20 years before even knowing they existed. Must say, I realized I fall short quite often when I answered the questions for myself.

Happy Holidays, MIP Family!

BGG