Yes I have seen members bring a child ( or 2 ) to a closed meeting when other child care arrangements could not be made. Actually everyone I have seen bring a child, is someone with new sobriety. I think the general feeling in my groups is that if someone needs a meeting badly and has to choose the `` willing to go to any length`` kicks in and no one has a quarrel with the child present. I have also not seen anyone abuse this, if child care arrangements can be made the members do make them.
I used to bring my young son to meetings, luckily there was playground in a courtyard of the church where we had the meetings, with the door open. It's odd, I never did seek out closed meetings, the ones that i happen to drop into seemed overly serious and had some grumpy people in them. For the most part I avoided them.
I've spent countless meetings playing with peoples children outside the meeting so they could get a meeting, those were some of my favorite meetings, 12 step work doesn't get any better then that.
It's like hmmm, mom sober and able to be a good parent and me being to somehow possibly help that happen, or me be selfish, whinge about the disturbance caused by the child, embarrassing her so she doesn't come back, therefore add to "the warped lives of blameless children" because we turn people with children away from meetings because I didn't offer to watch the lil bugger so mom could get her medicine
yeah, that's a tough one
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I'm really asking a traditions question, I guess. There are a lot of meetings here for our small area. 40 are "Open", which means kids are allowed, and there is a play station outside the meeting place. The deal is that there are only 5 "closed" meetings left. The long-timers here have been in hot debate cause they say that if a meeting is "Closed" it means no kids, and Alcoholics only. One woman told me emphatically a meeting cannot be both, it's only one or the other. If someone, a newcomer shows up to a closed meeting with a kid in tow, there can be an immediate group conscience to let them stay, but if kids are allowed regularly, then the meeting needs to be designated with area as "Open".
There is a meeting that is currently allowing children but it calling itself "Closed".
I'm staying out of the debate face-to-face, but wondering if importance of open vs. closed meetings is an issue either with children or perhaps even cross-additction around the country or world.
I'm really asking a traditions question, I guess. There are a lot of meetings here for our small area. 40 are "Open", which means kids are allowed, and there is a play station outside the meeting place. The deal is that there are only 5 "closed" meetings left. The long-timers here have been in hot debate cause they say that if a meeting is "Closed" it means no kids, and Alcoholics only. One woman told me emphatically a meeting cannot be both, it's only one or the other. If someone, a newcomer shows up to a closed meeting with a kid in tow, there can be an immediate group conscience to let them stay, but if kids are allowed regularly, then the meeting needs to be designated with area as "Open".
There is a meeting that is currently allowing children but it calling itself "Closed".
I'm staying out of the debate face-to-face, but wondering if importance of open vs. closed meetings is an issue either with children or perhaps even cross-additction around the country or world.
God, Alcoholics with control issues can be a right pain in the ass
I have never heard a closed meeting to designate "children not allowed", IMO Bill Wilson should channel Chuck Norris to give some tradition lessons at some of those "closed" (minded) meetings, Jaysus H Keerist
"Yes, lets throw the young mothers under the bus for the sake of our own anal integrity, God forbid we might save not only her life but the life of her children!!!!
I need to stop before I start using language that will get me banned
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Sorry to get you started Andrew!!! ;) you flare so easily some times.
I'm not opposed to children myself. I'm wondering if more can be gleaned. I've been asked to do a focused study of the traditions right now.
A good informed group conscience at my home group a few months back revealed, regarding this same issue, many valuable points of view. Many of the members switched vote positions after hearing experience shares at a long, arduous business meeting. I have to admit I was pretty sorry I'm locked into a service committment, cause it was tedious. And yet..I think I've learned something, is it valuable? I'm not sure yet. It's easiest to go with my first opinion on anything, yet when I listen to others share ESH on traditions stuff, I know so far I've gotten deeper understanding on how the traditions help people get along in a more harmonious way. Group unity and singleness of purpose come to mind. I felt it happen in a business meeting and then seen the result in high quality regular meetings after that. Of course one of the great things about AA is that it never seems static in energy. With all us characters blabbing around, it stays fresh and interesting for me.
Sound like so far there the vibe I'm getting here at MIP is: not much emphasis or need for deliniation regarding meetings. Perhaps in other areas I might find meeting in general less uptight or a real jamboree! It could be also I'm missing the point-it's that meeting go fine and don't require so much fuss. Open or closed doesn't have an effect on group unity in the opinions here, I'm not getting the impression that AA is in eminent danger of falling apart because kids come to any meeting, in the opinions expressed. Thanks for responding to my curiosity...
-- Edited by angelov8 on Friday 16th of December 2011 05:17:48 AM
Hi, My experience with open verses closed meetings. Open meetings were open to any one at all. Just curious what an A.A. meeting was about, go to an open meeting. Nurses in training wanting to learn about alcoholism, go to an open meeting. Just to be nosy, go to an open meeting. Court appointed, go to an open meeting. Al-Anon, go to an open meeting. Self admitted alcoholic, desiring some confidentially, from outside eyes and ears, in a setting with other self confessed alcoholics, go to a closed meeting. The difference between the two were quite apparent. The noise and distraction of children, dogs, food, cell phones, ect. seemed to have been treated differently within different group consciences. Wayne T.
Can someone explain the importance of a closed meeting? The only things that I can think of is "bitch session" or personal anonymity.
"Closed meetings" can be great because they can focus on the actual focus on sobriety, the "nuts and bolts" of navigating emotional difficulties in sobriety, rather then explaining the same thing over and over and over to newcomers, which while important, misses the transition from physically sober to spiritually sober, we all know old timers that spent 25 years solely focused on carrying the message, and went from step 1 to step 12, and we have seen the cost.
Consider, I went to a meeting in London once called "After 9" at 9:30 PM, I thought it meant...well, the obvious, but what it meant was for people with more then 9 years of sobriety, the meetings focus was on staying spiritually fit, it was...how to explain, an attempt to be something other then a spiritual kindergarten, I think closed meetings are an attempt to do the same thing, but human nature being what it is, they turn it into an exclusive club, which is "unclear on the concept"
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
angelov8 wrote: The long-timers here have been in hot debate cause they say that if a meeting is "Closed" it means no kids, and Alcoholics only.
Well, if someone comes thru the door who in not alcoholic enough to qualify for a closed meeting then just call the singleness of purpose police to kick them out!
Can someone explain the importance of a closed meeting? The only things that I can think of is "bitch session" or personal anonymity.
By "bitch session" do you mean like just Alkie's complaining about non-drinkers or addicts?
Kinda like a women's meeting must be about females sitting around trashing men? That's what I imagine is meant by "bitching", but I'm not sure I get what is meant by that.
I've gone to just about all the meetings here. I love them all. In my experience, the closed meetings are more focused in talking about the steps and emotional sobriety and discussing the BB and 12x12. Many newcomers do attend, often with their sponsors and there is equal or more support there too. My posse with about the same sobriety have often said that there is often an intense spirituality in the closed meetings and those are the ones we leave feeling really good. Not always, and can happen at any group. But more often there.
In closed meetings, I don't hear 50% shares on drug addiction, which is nice because I go to AA to deal with my drinking and I go to other programs to address other issues. When I go to an open AA meeting I expect that there all sort of folks there, NA's OA's, Al-Anons, non-alkie friends and family as well as alcoholics. It's just different at a closed meeting. And I do appreciate that. I hope I am not a bitch sessioner because of it!
In addition, because I live in a small close-knit community the personal anonymity is a big deal for some people. People who own businesses or have come to closed meetings saying they've experienced fallout because of anonymity carelessly broken by court-orders and door revolvers in the open meetings. They feel the security and safety felt in a closed meeting is important.
I wouldn't welcome kids in a closed meeting. That said, one of my most frustrating AA experiences was seeing a young man turned away from his FIRST AA meeting ever because it was a wimen's meeting.
I don't like kids and would be glad to attend meetings that exclude them, but I also think its important to bring new people into the fold.
Can someone explain the importance of a closed meeting? The only things that I can think of is "bitch session" or personal anonymity.
Personally I don't think I would want to be a member of a group that excluded people who needed a meeting but either didn't have or couldn't pay for child care at the time. Dr Bob used to suugest groups ask "what would the master do"? My God wouldn't want us to turn that person away, and I personally feel it works against our primary purpose. Groups do have the right to make such rules if they desire.
In NE Ohio, there was mostly speaker meetings and they where "open meetings" (alcoholics and visitors welcome), but most of the discussion meetings where closed (alcoholics only).
Many felt that in closed discussion meetings, people would be more candid, open and intimate in sharing ESH, and personal issues and faults if needed. It did seem that those in more upscale communities where a little more sensitive to the possibility that non-alcoholics could come the the meetings and possibly hear one's dirty laundry.
In Atlanta, where I currenly live there are mostly discussion meetings and many of them, including my homegroup are open meetings. Although 95% are alcoholics, it was honestly a little freaky for me to be in a AA discusion meeting with friends, spouses, visitors etc. Just took time to get used to it.
We are very close to a college campus that has a large nursing school, and they all have to attend a AA meeting as part of their education, we usually get about 10 students per quarter. I now am happy to see them and appreciate the positive things that can come from them understanding a little about AA.
I can certainly understand why some groups would opt to be closed to alcoholics only. IDK, this may be a bad analogy, but imagine being at a nudist party and a couple of people are wearing clothes.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Can someone explain the importance of a closed meeting? The only things that I can think of is "bitch session" or personal anonymity.
I can certainly understand why some groups would opt to be closed to alcoholics only. IDK, this may be a bad analogy, but imagine being at a nudist party and a couple of people are wearing clothes.
lol, anyone that knew me, or of me, had seen me "naked" many times before. I was happy to have any of them hearing how I a dressed my problem.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 18th of December 2011 08:51:34 AM
