Hi All, Thought about writing this in my own private journal. But, here it may help some other person that is dealing with the reality of who they are. Had a crummy day at work today. Had to get tires put on my vehicle and it took 4X longer than expected causing work to be even more stressful. Normally, I would have went home after this and poured a few glasses of something and took a couple meds, but not today. Instead, I chose to share my frustrations with my wife, offer to do some surface things for her and hear about her day. Well, she had other ideas. When I shared the Big Book I'm now reading, she took the opportunity to share some of her frustrations. She laid out an undeniable argument of some of who I am. We talked about some of the hurts I've caused her and they are major hurts. She walked me down the road of my past choices and allowed me make my own conclusions about who I am.
1. I generally place blame on everyone, but me for things that go wrong. 2. I look down at many of the folks around me and think that I'm better - including my wife. 3. I feel as though others are in my life for my benefit.
These 3 ugly things are absolutely true and have allowed me to make hurtful choices causing pain in those I say I love. I feel pretty low right now and cried for a while in front of her and by myself. I pray that God will use this to help me uproot this selfishness.
Sorry to hear about the rough day and good job not picking up a drink. The good news is the 3 traits you described are shared amoung most of us (no you are not unique), and you qualify to work the steps of AA!! (Read page 62)
Days like this it is good to go to a meeting and call your sponsor or someone in the program. A lot of people had a bad day today without a job, so be grateful.
I've been sober a long time and have worked hard on my character defects, but if I need to be reminded of any, I share some frustrations with my wife LOL
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Andrew, through that admission alone you have progressed further than lots of people do.
I think you absolutely need to go to some face to face meetings and get a sponsor. You are learning some things that are very hard to accept and you don't have to do it alone AND you don't have to do it over night. Your wife may be expecting you to change overnight and that's not going to happen. You can do this with the rest of us in AA, and you can do it 1 day at a time. Doing it alone is dangerous and harmful actually. You are describing something I went through in the first week sober. It was this realization of what a horrible person I had been and that I just hated myself. That is a critical point at which you can go either way. You can hate yourself right back to the bottle or take active steps by developing an actual program of recovery in AA. You have extraordinary insight. You seem humble. Basically, you seem to be very ready to take off and soar in AA. Please go to a meeting. This is your window.
**Edit - I see from your other post that you did go to a meeting - perhaps this is part of why you sound so insightful :) Keep going Andrew. It is a good thing to keep accepting help in this.
Mark
-- Edited by pinkchip on Tuesday 29th of November 2011 10:47:15 PM
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Hi Andrew, I have good news and bad news. The good news: all of us who read your post will relate to it. We are alcoholics and you have just described some of our classic character defects to a tee. I remember my first few weeks in AA. If I could have spoken I would have said "my name is Mike and I'm sorry" I thought I was the worst case ever to walk through the doors of AA. No one was lower than me. It turned out I was wrong about that. the way I was feeling, the things I had done in the past, my behaviour was all pretty run of the mill for an alcoholic, quite normal in fact. So that's the good news, everything you are telling us is normal for an alcoholic, especially a newly sober one. An eminent psychiatrist here accurately, but rather harshly, described the alcoholic as a greedy self lover. He went on to say that the AA 12 step program will turn the greedy self lover into a generous other lover. What you are saying makes sense. Now the bad news or good news depending on how you look at it. In your post you have only just scratched the surface of the true nature of the malady that afflicts you. If you are anything like me, there are many more skeletons in the closet, much more wreckage to clear away, if you really want to overcome drinking. This is a daunting task, generally too much for us to handle alone, but it is a part of the work that lies ahead if you are to have any peace of mind in your life without alcohol. The answer is to get yourself to some AA meetings and find a sponsor to help you through the steps. You have shown considerable insight in your post, you have glimpsed briefly an idea of what the real problem is. God has given you this little bit of understanding, opened a window of opportunity, for you to get started on the road to recovery. Grab it with both hands my friend!
My HP forgives everything. It doesn't want me to carry baggage into battle. Kudos to opening up to your wife. My wife offered to hear my 5th Step and I laughed. "Honey, my first interrogation was when I was 10. My first felony was when I was 13. Love the man you have. He appreciates it. Leave the sick bastard I used to be to Father Phil and God."
Hey Andrew, Your 1,2 and 3 were also on my list of 2,365 faults that were in the condensed version of "Problems With Tom". Since I joined AA I have shed 32 of them. Join the crowd. Sharing this is part of our progress and sets you free. Thanks for the great post. Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
and Andrew, some days insight pops up out at us or has to be pointed out to us.... when we are sober we can finally see it, accept it, and ask forgiveness for it. when we were looking at life through the bottom of a glass we could not see anything clearly and preferred life that way. Thank you for sharing your pain with us today, you are helping me stay sober. jj
I pray that God will use this to help me uproot this selfishness.
I think you are about ready for Step 4. I see paper and pen in your near future. You should get a sponsor and keep going to meetings. I was going to 3 a day when I started...And some days I still do. I see honesty there. And willingness. Keep and open mind and you can change your life. I sent you a PM (Private Message). Let me know if you got it.
Sounded like me to a tee. We were all very selfish people. We came first, second, third, one millionth and everything in between, after that we might have time for another's needs. There is some good news in the 12 promises though:
(6) We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
(7) Self-seeking will slip away.
You keep doing what the steps ask you to do and they will happen. The funny thing is that you'll probably be the last to notice. The other funny thing you'll find how rewarding it is.
Well now, if I were to look back at exchanges I had with a good number of people in the early days of my recovery process... I would simply have to copy and paste what you shared here.. and it would have described me to a tee.
1. I generally place blame on everyone, but me for things that go wrong. 2. I look down at many of the folks around me and think that I'm better - including my wife. 3. I feel as though others are in my life for my benefit.
Thank God this program opens the door to letting go of me, accepting and putting faith in Him and caring more about you.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous says..
Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.
So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.
(bb. pg 62 chapter 5)
Working this program, and trying to the best of my ability on a daily basis to live by spiritual principles has reduced a great amount of my selfishness and self-centeredness. Trying, with my very best efforts, didn't make much difference... or it was short lived... letting God remove these defeats of character is where I finally got some relief from being me and so did those around me.
Thanks everyone for commenting. I agree that I've only scratched the surface of skeletons, but feel those 3 beliefs/character defects have allowed me to make hurtful choices and put myself first. It's now so ingrained in me that even when I do the right thing, I quickly turn it in my head and pat myself on the back (sick! ). It's like I'm watching myself be fake and phony, pretending to care. The other day my wife said that I must really dislike her deep down. At the time I said no, it's me that I dislike. I didn't even know what I was talking about at the time. But, it's true. I really do not like me.
I could comment on each one of your replies as there are nuggets of gold within each one. Just know that I appreciate what you all said and at this time, I'm being real. I've read through once, but will go through each one more carefully. You have taken the time to write and offer advice/care and I want to learn and grow from each of you.
I sent a text to one of the guys from the Face to Face meeting and he called me yesterday evening to check on me and invite me to lunch. I agreed and we have lunch plans today.
Andrew I cringed when I read the 3 characteristics that your wife spoke of. These self centered fear based defect haunt us and it's one day at a time working to correct these. These are typical and deeply engrained in all alcoholics. Lots of good replies here, I second the suggestions to get to meetings not only when you have a rough day like this, but every day for the first year or two. Work with a sponsor and get through the steps with him asap. The same man will drink again, the 12 steps are about changing that man. Get busy my friend.
I just got home from a meeting ... and that's what I'd have suggested ... probably a little late now depending on where you are ... I think Human contact should be at the top of your list ... There's nothing like one alcoholic talking with another ... I think the miracles come quicker that way ...
Take Care and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Don't worry if people know you in the meetings. They are anonymous and even if not, who cares? You are in recovery and that shows strength and not weakness. Other people are all there for the same reason as you. If you think your "reputation" is more important than being saved from the perils of alcholism, that is a big problem right there.
You need to build up a strong AA program if you are going to succeed here and that does mean putting sobriety first.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
i have never, ever regretted hitting a meeting. That would be my first choice. :)
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
Andrew whatever meeting you attend, you'll be family just like you are here. Just let people at these meetings know that you new to the program and their meeting (the ask in the beginning of the meeting) and folks will go out of there way to introduce themselves and make you feel at home.
Andrew99 wrote:1. I generally place blame on everyone, but me for things that go wrong.
2. I look down at many of the folks around me and think that I'm better - including my wife.
3. I feel as though others are in my life for my benefit.
1. I learned to be a blamer at such a young age, I really have no memory of a first time.
2. When I first heard the description of an alcoholic as "an egomaniac with an inferiority complex" I almost fell out of my chair. That's me.
3. I'm a narcissist and I believe many alcoholics are.
Ok, there's my qualifications. Here's what I've learned... which is an ongoing process:
1. It doesn't matter whose fault *anything* is. If I'm an alcoholic because I inherited it from my father, there's nothing he can do to fix it. He's dead, but even if he were still alive, he could not fix my alcoholism. I've learned that the source of the problem generally has little to do with the solution. AA is proof of that because there are a million alcoholics with a million things to blame for their disease... and all can get sober working the same program of recovery.
2. While I resented that I never fit in, the fact is I rejected normalcy. I wanted to be better, and when other people didn't acknowledge my superiority I said ok, I'll show them - if I can't be better, I'll be worse. I actually feel - most of the time - that I'm equal and worthy as a human being. I actually am starting to like being normal (whatever that is) just because life is a lot easier when I'm not expending so much energy to establish my superiority, or groveling on the ground with the poor me's. Oh, I still do it... but it makes me miserable and I only do it until I realize I'm miserable, and that's what's making me miserable.
3. Narcissism is hard to let go of. For some reason, I've never had much denial about this since getting sober. I am self-absorbed and I devote a lot of thought and energy just analyzing myself, or reveling in past glory. I often say that I divide AA meetings into three parts: the part where I'm thinking about what I'm going to say, the part where I'm talking, and the part where I'm thinking about how I sounded. The only strategy I have for breaking out of this cycle is "shut up and listen". Which I rarely practice, I guess because I'm still self absorbed. But when I do shut up and listen, I am rewarded in ways I haven't previously considered.
Anyway, time to post this and re-read it to make sure it sounds good**
Barisax
** and correct the typos!!
-- Edited by barisax on Friday 2nd of December 2011 02:52:36 AM
barisax wrote:1. I learned to be a blamer at such a young age, I really have no memory of a first time.
2. When I first heard the description of an alcoholic as "an egomaniac with an inferiority complex" I almost fell out of my chair. That's me.
3. I'm a narcissist and I believe many alcoholics are.
Ok, there's my qualifications. Here's what I've learned... which is an ongoing process:
1. It doesn't matter whose fault *anything* is. If I'm an alcoholic because I inherited it from my father, there's nothing he can do to fix it. He's dead, but even if he were still alive, he could not fix my alcoholism. I've learned that the source of the problem generally has little to do with the solution. AA is proof of that because there are a million alcoholics with a million things to blame for their disease... and all can get sober working the same program of recovery.
2. While I resented that I never fit in, the fact is I rejected normalcy. I wanted to be better, and when other people didn't acknowledge my superiority I said ok, I'll show them - if I can't be better, I'll be worse. I actually feel - most of the time - that I'm equal and worthy as a human being. I actually am starting to like being normal (whatever that is) just because life is a lot easier when I'm not expending so much energy to establish my superiority, or groveling on the ground with the poor me's. Oh, I still do it... but it makes me miserable and I only do it until I realize I'm miserable, and that's what's making me miserable.
3. Narcissism is hard to let go of. For some reason, I've never had much denial about this since getting sober. I am self-absorbed and I devote a lot of thought and energy just analyzing myself, or reveling in past glory. I often say that I divide AA meetings into three parts: the part where I'm thinking about what I'm going to say, the part where I'm talking, and the part where I'm thinking about how I sounded. The only strategy I have for breaking out of this cycle is "shut up and listen". Which I rarely practice, I guess because I'm still self absorbed. But when I do shut up and listen, I am rewarded in ways I haven't previously considered.
Anyway, time to post this and re-read it to make sure it sounds good**
Barisax
** and correct the typos!!
-- Edited by barisax on Friday 2nd of December 2011 02:52:36 AM
Barisax, You sounded great when I read it. Thank you for sharing your own observations. I feel like your post came from my own head. I especially liked the definition "... egomaniac with an inferiority complex." If anyone wants to know more about who I am, I'll direct them to your post. Thanks, Andrew
Andrew, that's how this program works, we "compare in" and realize that we are in the right place. Then we see how others, in the meetings have recovered and their lives improved. We learn that this program is one of duplication, and that if we want what we have, we just need to do what they did to get and stay sober. It really is that easy, once we shed our "terminal uniqueness".
I attended a meeting tonight in a nearby town. It was a very small group and we studied the Big Book. A nice evening. Something I've noticed for the last few days is that I really appreciate music so much more. Maybe I am just paying more attention because I'm sober. Normally, I'd listen to talk radio through the day. I still like to stay informed, but music sounds that much sweeter. Andrew
Thanks everyone! My wife of 21 years told me last night that there are too many hurts to overcome in our marriage and that we need to just let it go (recall that she has left ~8 times and has been gone for 1.5 of last 3 years). Honestly, that has been my biggest fear through our whole marriage - her leaving and me being alone again. She is helping me face that fear head on - lol. I'm sure it goes back way before her as well. I have always felt alone and made sinful and good choices to try and fill that void. I've tried, drinking, drugs, adventure, sex, porn, work, sports, church, God, Bible, being the smartest guy in the room (only pretending) to reverse my aloneness (is that a word?). Some have worked for a time, but I must get off track and revert to old habits. I have been in counseling with 10-15 different pastors, counselors, church laymen over the last 16 years. I've been in Christian men's groups, accountability groups, online groups, and more. My wife tells me that drinking is not my problem and that I need to deal with my other mom, intimacy, anger, ... issues. Here are the marital wounds: porn issues and the lies that went with it, drinking too much and being stupid, a few arguments that went somewhat physical, tendency to be lazy at home and a host of smaller indescretions like too much tv. There are many more, but never physically cheated (I have to reward myself for something). I have many strengths that my wife sometimes appreciates too, but that's not what this is about. I know one thing I had not tried until now and that's AA. I wish I had a point to this message, but nothing is coming to mind. I guess I'm throwing myself out here in hopes that you and I both will understand me a little better. OK, I've spent enough time thinking about me and re-reading my brilliant words (blah). Time to read more about you. Andrew
-- Edited by Andrew99 on Saturday 3rd of December 2011 09:51:44 AM
-- Edited by Andrew99 on Saturday 3rd of December 2011 09:52:39 AM
Andrew, if you're looking for a place to find your authentic self and learning how to like what you find, this is the place. The steps are the process, and the rewards are unlimited.
Oh man Andrew, ... as my Mom would have said, ... you just said a 'mouthful' ...
In today's meetings I sometimes here others introduce themselves this way .... Hi, I'm an alcoholic, and my problem is Pappy ... for example ...
As time goes on, I can very well relate to this kind of admission ... In working the program, I found that I needed to undergo a complete and total change in the way I 'think' ... I found that I 'in fact' had to become a different person ... You would not recognize me today versus who I was a few years ago, I guarantee it ...
When I came back to AA this time, I had a sponsor tell me he knew what my problem was ... I said okay, what's my problem? ... He said it's your 'thinking'! ... I said, what about my 'thinking'? ... He said, it's wrong! ... I said, how much of my 'thinking' is wrong? ... He said, We always start with 'all of it'! ... and so my return to AA seemed like a slap in the face, AND I deserved it ... I did not at that time, have the capacity to live a free and rewarding life, especially one that included love of any kind ... Thank God and AA for their patience and teachings that today allow me to be a responsible and productive human being ...
I found that I didn't need, as you call it, the counseling with 10 - 15 different counselors, pastors, church laymen, etc., .... You know what? ... I found the answers to ALL my problems was waiting for me here in the first 164 pg.s of the Big Book, and therein, I found God waiting for me ... A few simple steps and BAM, I found there is life out there where I wasn't God ...
What an incredible life I have today ... all because I dumped 'my old way of thinking' for a 'life vest' rather than holding on to that anchor ...
Take Care and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
