I need advice. A friend who is 9 months sober is very upset. His sponsor said "i cant sponsor you if you take medication". He stopped taking the medication for mental health issues and consequently became very ill. He has since "sacked" this sponsor.
The problem is that this is not an isolated case. In my home town there is a group of these guys who call themselves AA and whose home group virtually takes newcomers hostage and subjects them to quite non-Big Book series of demands, thinly veiled as suggestions. I was once one of their hostages. I have personal experience of this
My friend says he feels used and is scared to go to other newbie meeting in town where these "cultists" go in order to recruit newcomers.Old timers at this meeting dissaprove of them, but feel they cannot ask them not to come.
However at this "legit" newbie meeting we had a conscience and it was decided that at the start of the meeting it would be read out that no-one would ask for newcomers phone numbers at the meeting but offer theirs instead. This was because a number of newcomers felt they were being pestered and consequently complained. The perpetrators of this pestering now have a new tactic: round up newcomers after the meeting, take them for coffee a quarter mile up the road and get their numbers there instead. Dishonesty!!
If ever challenged they close ranks and say "we only offer suggestions"
My friend however felt manipulated.
These "cultists" have gained enough of a reputation to appear on the following site:
http://aacultwatch.co.uk/default.aspx
My friend has asked me for help. What can i do?
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 03:52:13 PM
It sounds like there is a political lobby or group that is working to expose them already. I would contact government agencies for substance abuse. I doubt AA is going to do anything because it is a controversy and we do not wish to be part of controversies. At some point it could be an issue for police.
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Oh man, ... what a tough situation you find yourself in ... With AA's 'open door' policy to those who ask for help, it's going to be hard to take action to rid the 'cultist's from your midst ... Any action you take could be easily misinterpreted and become a noose around your neck (the group's neck) ...
I believe I would contact 'AA World Services' or your regional 'AA Conference' group to seek their advice ... Personally, I don't have a clue as to how to handle it ... May God grant your group the wisdom to endure ...
God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
My sponsor suggested to contact AA's English office in York, which is kinda what you are suggesting.
What about contacting the landlords of the Church Halls the 'cultists' rent for their groups? Enlighten the landlords that those they are renting to are not proper AA as they believe. Achieve this by showing the landlords their premises listed in the AACULTWATCH web site as being the meeting place of a group not generally approved of by true AA. Then let them decide what to do about it. Sneaky but possible quite effective.
Hi, This "cultist" terminology has me a bit nervous. Self appointed groups to protest other groups or persons with the notion of keeping A.A. pure, puts up red warning lights based on my experience. I have never read where A.A. endorses, A. A. "police". There are sections in the book Alcoholics Anonymous and The Twelve Steps and Traditions that warn against such activities. " Every group has the right to be wrong" is a trusted spiritual principal in the fellowship. Walk carefully Wayne T.
Toad, I understand completely, and i do not relish using the word 'cultist'. Basically my friend was manipulated by his sponsor into coming off medication. He was told he could not enjoy the full benefit of the 12 step program if he was on medication. Personal opinion aside, does this not violate the Tradition that states we have no opinion on outside matters? And this whole group in question 'suggests' that their sponsees ditch meds. I s that not dangerous? These sponsees are vulnerable people!
Every group has a right to be wrong. I dont understand. So what do we do when the practises of a group ignore a Tradition to the extent I have described?
Is what is happening with these rogue groups a side effect of absolute tolerance?
Well.. I have decide at this point, and i thank you all for taking time for your replies, that I am not going to take this too seriously, and I will pray for God's Will around this situation and I will have faith it will be ok.
I just hope someone doesnt stop taking meds and commits suicide
You say your sponsor suggested you contact GSO in York. I see you are in Surrey. I would suggest that you try the following:-
1. You have experienced this behaviour - discuss in depth the facts with your sponsor.
2. have your friend do the same with their sponsor.
3. The bullying statement - this group will not tolerate behaviour likely to frighten, intimidate etc. Can't remember it in detail but it's a conference approved standard. Lobby your home group via conscience that this anti bullying statement be read out at every meeting and is followed through on - you need a strong chair or secretary who is able to challenge this behaviour.
4. There are guidelines in the group handbook for dealing with this sort of behaviour - look for them and implement them
5. If it cannot be sorted at Group Level, take it to Intergroup.
6. If the alledged cultists try to introduce non conference approved materials to the meeting, remind them politely that this is not the done thing as agreed at Conference (there's a guideline on this too.) Hell if we all start bringing in and sharing innappropriate literature, then I might as well start espousing the benefits of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (or the Angling Times)
7. remember that you can call a conscience meeting of any group at any time for any reason, (even in the midst of someones share, providing that it revolves around that persons share or behaviour.)
8. Get the old timers off their arses.
Hope this helps.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Hi sqt, I commend you and your willingness to feel the pains and fears of recovery. I also commend you in your decision to "not take this too seriously". Not all sponsors are well. Not all sponsors are balanced. Not all sponsors are safe. At times I am not well. I am not balanced. I am not all that safe. My experience has shown me A.A. is a a kind of hospital for folks who have various degrees of flaws. Together we do the best we can to help each other get, and stay sober. At times "it ain't pretty". I also hope someone doesn't stop taking meds and commit suicide, because of being wrongly led by a member. Yet it does happen. Very early in recovery I witnessed some behaviors and actions in the Fellowship that "freaked" me out. I asked a trusted old timer how that could be allowed. His reply was simple --------- They are here to show you what you do not want to be. I don't know you sqt yet I trust your recovery. God Speed your journey, Toad
Hello SGT, I aree with what others said about autonomy of the group. My advise is to steer clear of them, and perhaps make a complaint to the church and the local intergroup, but unless people are getting seriously abused, that's a hard thing to prove. btw, I changed the title to your thread. The C word is not applicable here and I don't want google searches for that term to end up here.
Nazi kinda has positive connotations in AA though...like a "Step-nazi" is sort of like a drill seargeant on the steps and people actually seek those out.
I guess these folks are kool-aid drinkers. I will stick to the usual AA coffee and donuts.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Aloha sqt...this reminds me soooo much of my introduction to AA and I'm grateful to see my past in someone elses words. I wasn't fit for social model recovery (AA - Al-Anon) when I first reached the groups so my way of getting the "AA Nazis" away from my table was to just threaten them with bodily readjustment. It took a wee bit of time and they they got it and left me alone to "getting it" the way I was "getting it". I used intimidation and it worked and since it worked it came out just dandy. That's one way of taking care of it by yourself. There is lots of value to the other suggestions you have been given here. Today I most go with group conscious decision and openess with those who tend to want to run the show from their own angle.
I don't think there is any proper use of the word Nazi as a "positive"....if rigorous discipline is meant, just say that. It is not a joke to make light of those who tortured and killed so many so horrifically. The world is not free of this behavior even now and terms like "Step Nazi" just dumb it down. There are so many young people today who have no real knowledge or appreciation of what "Nazi" really references.
(Lee has so many buttons, just push one and watch her go LOL).
As for telling people with brain disorders such as mental illness to get off their meds, isn't practicing medicine without a license a crime? That is really dangerous, and so NOT AA.
Welcome, Sgt. One of my sponsors used to say "never deny a man his story." I interpreted that as "try not to interfere too much." These extremists have the scent of evangelists about them. I agree with Bill; get the Old Timers off their arses and remind these evangelists that membership is based on attraction, rather than promotion. Remind them of the traditions. In detail.
I have an AAvangelist in my life. He's new to the area and is 12 years younger than me, but 7 more years in the program. He drank for 8 years, I drank for 28 years. I quit smoking cigarettes for 16 months (longest stretch in 30 years) until I started going to a smoking meeting that my then-sponsor INSISTED I go to as a condition of our relationship. I no longer go. I started smoking again for about 3 months. I'm quit again now. My God considers suicide to be the ultimate sin of pride and cigarettes are suicide.
My new AAvangelist said "That's alcoholism wearing a god-mask." My conclusion is that AAvangelists have a mutation of arrogance that hides under a gilded rock. It's a way to impose their will on others under the guise of "giving it back" or "paying it forward."
