I had only been back from a fantastic family weekend in Wellington for half an hour when the phone went. Our office had received a call from a motel owner, calling AA at the request of one of her guests and about whom she was concerned. So off I go, middle of the day so no one to take with me, and meet the motelier who takes me up to the room and introduces me to our man.
She left us to it and it didn't take long to realise that Dave was well trollied, three bottles of wine (actually not that much when I think of it) Dave tells me he was in a rehab a few weeks ago and they put him on SSRI pills citalopram which he stopped taking two days ago as far as he could remember. I notice his foot has been bady cut and he says that was done in a hotel he left in a hurry. There is blood on the wall and he says that is his brothers name written there and he will fight anyone who wants to remove it. He starts crying and talking about being too gutless to commit suicide. We agree no progress on 12 step can be made under these circumstances, so he decides to try and sleep it off.
As I leave I meet the motel owner in the car park who is naturally interested in events especially in respect of her property. What do I tell her. What else should I be thinking about doing?
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Sunday 13th of November 2011 10:31:52 PM
rrib gave some good stuff...I would have done that. I would have also called emergency and have in the past when one of our not at the door yet brothers has consumed to much of the stuff we poisoned our minds, bodies, spirits and emotions with. Alcohol takes a heavy load and sometimes we don't come out to play again. I would also consider calling in the morning at his room to see how he is and talk about what we went over the night before and invite him to coffee and maybe breakfast and then to a meeting. He might not remember what went on today but I could call and ask him some questions about what he said about himself and show him an interest in him. Suicide is a "poor me" way of ending it. He can end it much better in the program or what I call my "successful suicide". I didn't end my life. I ended how I was living it.
Great post Fyne and good job!! ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Friday 11th of November 2011 12:01:01 AM
Hey Mike, ... I'm no expert, but if the cut on his foot was bad enough, maybe this guy should be in the hospital to care for that ... and maybe this would give him time to collect his thoughts ... He, at the very least, needs to care for the cut that could get an infection and cause further harm ...
And we all know he's not going to make any progress unless he admits he has a problem and also needs help ... So I guess what I'd do is get him some medical attention for the cut first, then approach him in a way so as to offer him a 'solution' should he feel he has a problem ... Just letting him know there is a 'solution' available may be the best you can hope for, that and being available to help him if he asks ... That way you put the ball on his court and he makes the decision ...
I'm not sure why the hotel owner hasn't already called the authorities unless she is a very caring person ... which is great, but WOW, blood on the walls??? ... I'm not really sure I wouldn't have already called the authorities ... Unless the man really appears ready to accept your help ...
May God be with you and Bless You Mike,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I cant ever remember anyone getting thru to me while I was still drunk, or drinking.
I have learned that I can only carry the message ... the message of hope that is offered to anyone with a drinking problem that there is a solution and it is offered thru the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
My sponsor has always told me to pray for those still suffering and to make myself available. And whenever I have questions I am to read and re-read Chapter 7 Working with Others.
Okay...this is something I am actually trained in. This is an instance where a person needs to be committed for mental health reasons. He stated clear suicidal ideation (whether or not intent is there). I would have called 911. If that didn't work cuz of police being ignorant (even though they have training for this) - I would call a help hotline. Here in florida we have 211 which is "first call for help." From there, they can activate services from multiple providers. This person needs crisis intervention. That could come from partnership for the homeless, mental health agencies (who many have mobile crisis units that will come out to him), the shelter system, the office on aging (depending on his age)... Social services are expansive and people just need to tap into them.
Of course none of this is your fault for not knowing, but keep in mind for next time you go into a situation over your head or too crazy that when in doubt, hand the baton over to 911.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I volunteer for the A.A. hotline around here. The instructions provided are vauge in the extreme about when outside help is needed. Lucky for me, 99.9999% of the time people are just calling to find a meeting.
Police are really your best bet for dealing with crisis. They are technically there to help. Paramedics might also have been sent out if you described the cut and the blood on the wall. Paramedics are the 1st line crisis managment providers actually. They are better at handling crises than just about anyone. If the person would agree to go to a hospital, that might be a good place to take them too as they are also trained in crisis (naturally) and they can't turn someone away. I might also look up a suicide hotline number to provide for when a person is talking about life not being worth living etc...maybe if you could even transfer them to the hotline so that it would not be on them to call after they already made 1 call for help.
Possibly at your local community mental health center there may be a list of community resources for receiving mental health care on a sliding scale also but really once you get the person to other emergency mental health care providers, they will do that for them.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Here's what happened and the reasons for it. Once upon a time we had easy access to mental health services but it hasn't been that way for 20 years. Treatment, even detox, is only available after assessment and then there is a four week wait. The only means to fast treatment is through the police cells, then to psych emergency team. Dave was travelling light, just the clothes he stood up in so it was my preference to keep him in the motel room until he sobered up and then see what could be done voluntarily. He was OK about this in terms of sleeping it off and had actually gone to bed. However when the motel owner asked about his condition and that of the room, I could only tell her the truth. Why might be self evident but basically here was a friend of AA trying to help and I need to be honest with her. AA and the next drunk desperately need friends in the community. Her decision about her property was to ask Dave to leave which he did without problem. He chose to head off on foot, declining all offers of assistance. On thinking about events and what Dave had said, I remembered a documentary on SSRI anti depressants and the side effects that can occur if someone stops taking them suddenly - they include heightened risk of suicide. I thought that what initially appeared to be the usual drunken drama queen stuff might actually be more serious not withstanding the blood on the walls which was unusual in itself. I contacted the police, to whom Dave was known, and they were happy to pick him up and keep him safe. I haven't heard any more.
So now I have the opportunity to reflect on events and see what is to be learnt. Those that know me know that my views on medication are along the lines of those in the Big Book., that is that I would never assume the role of doctor, but also that I believe it is critically important to be aboslutely honest with the doctor. It's very difficult if not impossible for a doctor to treat someone who is not honest with them and sick alcoholics are often like that. I have seen many alcoholics arrive at their first meeting already having been prescribed SSRI medication. I sometimes wonder why this is. Apparently these meds take several weeks to take effect so it is hard to see there application for an acute condition. Just that fact alone makes me wonder if the doctor is just being kind. Perhaps an acute condition would require different medication? Anyway, Dave was much like me in that he took his meds while he was sober and supervised, but as soon as he got loose he ditched the meds as I did, and hit the bottle. I actually traded mine for booze, but my meds weren't SSRIs , they were valium types. There seems to be more danger in SSRI's for alcoholics of my type. Someone more knowledgeable explained to me what was happening with Dave which essentially was that the sudden removal of SSRI blockers coupled with the sudden intake of alcohol would cause psychosis - hence suicidal feelings.
So there are two things I can learn from this in respect of Dave. Firstly that the SSRIs failed to keep him sober and secondly (something I hadn't thought of) that they introduced a significantly increased danger of suicide when he drank and abandoned the pills.
God Bless, Mike H.
BTW Thanks for your input Mark, I more or less had done what you suggested and it's reassuring to know this fits with what a proffessional would have done.
Good stuff Mike, ... I learned a lot on these posts ... and I feel a little better prepared having read through these ... I've only had limited experience dealing with an active drunk 'face-to-face' on 12th-step calls ... and thanks Mark for your input ... all 'common sense' approaches ... Thanks guys ...
God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I've been in that situation, I was the man in the hotel room drunk as a skunk with injuries after falling on the steps. I had no idea but apparently I had dropped blood at the door step which alerted the staff. The hotel manager called me in my room asking to do a welfare check and perform cleaning services, well, I didn't want her to due to the fact I had a trash can full of puke and there was blood on the sheets. I eventually let them in to inspect and do a quick clean up. Meanwhile, I had to cover the blood stained sheets. I had no clue as to how many days I was in that room, total black out I guess? Talk about insanity!!! I eventually left and now I'm staying with my sponsor who know's everything that happened. I heard in a meeting that alcohol is so strong that it is doing push ups in the parking lot while I'm in a meeting. I just wanted to share my story and relate to the gentlemen in the hotel room. God Bless you all.
