Drug addict that never liked alcohol wants to switch to AA over NA- I need your opinion

Blu858 · Member

Drug addict that never liked alcohol wants to switch to AA over NA- I need your opinion

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Newbie...AA doesn't discriminate and some of the members do however if you come for yourself and keep your ego in check and give what you want to get then you will continue to recover. We have a good mix of alcoholics, alcoholic/addicts and addicts in the meetings locally and we all love and support each other unconditionally. Bill W and Dr. Bob the co-founders of AA came to the realization that the program should not be withheld from those who were otherwise addicted...namely non-alcoholic, addicts in need of recovery soooo here you are. I didn't come into the program of AA straight away coming thru the "backdoor" as they use to say (no longer do). I wasn't an Alcoholic in anyway shape or form because that was just the way it was for me then. I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know what alcoholism was or how it pertained to me and then came to understand that it was sooo normal a life for me that me and my family never considered it a problem. We drank, got drunk, fell down, got back up and did it all over again...normally...No problem!! I didn't take an alcoholic assessment until I was 9 years alcohol free and then and only then was I able to recall what it was like and what happened to me. During that time I hung around AA trying to find some stuff...stayed away from open meetings...got kicked out of the closed meetings cause I wouldn't ID as an alcoholic and stayed in the Al-Anon Family Groups working the steps and traditions as I was taught by my sponsorship. I wasn't considered to be really into recovery because I wasn't alcoholic but then my attitude was "Tough Sh+t!!" I'm here...deal with it cause I'm staying because I love and can use on a daily basis what the program does for my life. I sponsor alcoholics and alcoholic/addicts and non-s. The program is a spiritual one and HP is in charge...right?

What I was taught early on in recovery is what matters. "Look at the similarities between them and myself and not the differences". When I look at the similarities...I'm qualified and then some at times. If it is working for you don't make the druggie part a tripping rock twix you...your HP and your clean and sober life. Sober isn't only about being off of booze...

Glad you found MIP and will be looking forward to what you bring back to the screen. (((((hugs))))) smile

rrib · Senior Member

Be yourself. Go the the meetings which work best for you and introduce yourself how you like.

If someone gives you a hard time you might remind them 'The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.' and that you also have that desire.

Its the same 12 steps. In NA, they state that alcohol is just another drug. Most AA meetings welcome addicts these days. Some even have gone so far as to officially become 'open' meetings to avoid any controversy although they will usually ask everyone to confine their comments to relating to alcohol.

If you press the issue about 'only begin an addict' and 'not having a problem with alcolhol', you will most likely wake up some old fart who'll invite you to attend the NA meeting down the street.

I go to meetings to stay sober (and clean). The meetings help me work my program and stay spiritually connected. Controversy detracts me from this purpose. I introduce myself as alcoholic as AA meetings and addicted at NA meetings.

-- Edited by rrib on Tuesday 4th of October 2011 01:36:17 PM

Butt_Crack_Smoke · Newbie

Read pamphlet: "Problems Other Than Alcohol".

Short version is we don't destroy our fellowship buy going beyond the bounds of recovery from alcohol.

The wording is very specific in this pamphlet who should be considered a memeber and why we don't tell non-alcoholics they are memebers. The pamphlet is conference approved and was written by Bill W.

If you have a desire not to drink ..... end of story. Your in.

We buried the 11th heroin addict in our group this year, whom was told by the "super sober" that AA was a cure-all for everything. There are over 300 self help groups based on the 12 steps of AA.

Want to destroy AA? Tell every person suffering from other problems that AA is the cure to everything. Mutiple addiction groups tear themselves apart. We have only one purpose.

Want to kill people? Tell them that AA will fix their other addictions.

Only the "super sober" or the "spiritual giants" ignore 75 plus years of hard won experience and push this ignorant advice to people with problems other than booze.

Good luck and God bless.

NYC

-- Edited by Butt_Crack_Smoke on Tuesday 4th of October 2011 01:59:13 PM

Blu858 · Member

Butt_Crack_Smoke wrote:
Read pamphlet: "Problems Other Than Alcohol".
Short version is we don't destroy our fellowship buy going beyond the bounds of recovery from alcohol.

The wording is very specific in this pamphlet who should be considered a memeber and why we don't tell non-alcoholics they are memebers. The pamphlet is conference approved and was written by Bill W.

If you have a desire not to drink ..... end of story. Your in.

We buried the 11th heroin addict in our group this year, whom was told by the "super sober" that AA was a cure-all for everything. There are over 300 self help groups based on the 12 steps of AA.

Want to destroy AA? Tell every person suffering from other problems that AA is the cure to everything. Mutiple addiction groups tear themselves apart. We have only one purpose.

Want to kill people? Tell them that AA will fix their other addictions.

Only the "super sober" or the "spiritual giants" ignore 75 plus years of hard won experience and push this ignorant advice to people with problems other than booze.

Good luck and God bless.
NYC

-- Edited by Butt_Crack_Smoke on Tuesday 4th of October 2011 01:59:13 PM

Thanks for replying but what? You say "if you have a desire to stop drinking you're in" But everything else seems to suggest something else.
I did read the pamplet. The pamplet does not say- you're in. Too me (my situation) it say's- you're out. I was hoping the sentiment was considered out dated. I do realize it was written by Bill W.

mikef · MIP Old Timer

The 12 steps of NA are adapted from A.A.and are the basis of our recovery program.We have only broadened their perspective.We follow the same path with a single exception,our identification as addicts is all inclusive with respect to any mind altering mood changing substance. Alcoholism is too limited a term for us ,our problem is not a specific substance but it is a "disease called addiction(BASIC TEXT NA)"This is a major premise difference in the fellowships( AA LOOKS AT ADDICTION AS A SYMPTOM OF THE DISEASE ) but does not need to keep you from attending whichever program you find helps you remain in a fit spititual conditon ,a day at a time ,using no mind altering mood changing substances.You do not have to identify yourself as anything but yourself,there are many AA meetings with people announcing as ANDA'S(ALCOHOLICS AND ADDICTS)For many oldtimers(BACK WHEN I SURRENEDERED IN '84 anda's would have been tarred and feathered in a meeting) that may blurr the message and same for NA but like was said you can be who you are(your name) and identify as just a firm advocate of the 3rd tradition, a desire to stop drinking....Times they are a changing and some things unspoken, one fellowship says we must remain free from all drugs in order to recover, yet no opinion on nicotine and caffeine (outside issues),2 of my very 1st addictions and drugs. We say were free to choose God of our own concept and then go from a Power GREATER THAN TO introduce not only God (25% of our steps use the actual word God and 4 steps refer to male gender)(as father,him and his etc) but a male gender also(suppose thats not your concept,could have been written God as you understood God ,not Him and so forth...There are so many things that could take you from recovery mode and into poking holes in the program,,,the disease is insidious ,cunning and baffling it will try and take you in any realm,Cant save your A-- and face at same time, share as if you life depends on it ,get into the solution,the steps and be honest , get a sponsor and see what that sponsor says(step work is definitely done differently in both programs),more will be revealed. BoB DYLAN said,,,,,,,,THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING. addicts using subs,methadone at meetings,, ,alcoholics using naltrexone,antabuse...etc...but we must not forget once we put the substance down ,the healing and the work begins,,,welcome to MIP HOPE TO HEAR MORE FROM YOU!!!You are an alcoholic or addict if you say you are,,,,Time to start the healing!!!! I say this in loving service to both fellowships,,,,,,,,,,,,! smile

cooncatbob · Senior Member

You don't say where your located.
I was a pot smoking beer drinking alcoholic addict and my problem is Bob.
I concur that some NA members revel in being the "Bad Boys" of the recovery world, this is not the NA way, this type of behavior has cause many groups to lose their meeting facilities and the city of Oakland asked NA to look else where for their Northern California Regional Convention after a few bad apples (non recovering addict) caused trouble at the hotel in 1999.
This isn't a problem with NA as a whole but a few miscreants cause NA to get a bad reputation.
The courts are partially to blame, one third of the attendees at the Friday night meeting I used to attend in Sacramento were there to get their court cards signed, most of them spent more time in the parking lot smoking cigarettes then listening to the speaker share.
I suggest that you become part of the solution.
Attend the groups business meetings and voice your concerns, you'll probably find that you're not the only one turned off by this disrespectful behavior.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hello Blu, and welcome to the board. You are certainly welcome here. I am a gratefully recovering person who was addicted to drugs and am an alcoholic. I attended both NA and AA for the first few years, along with ACOA and Coda. My problem is me, the addictions were symptoms. The recovery is the same. Don't let anyone chase out of a meeting room. No one has to announce themself as "an alcoholic". I used "gratefully recovering person" for awhile, and "alcoholic and addict, amongst other things" for longer. F-them if they can't take a joke. Stick around we have a good group here.

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

Hey Blu858,
Another thing to consider is ""Heal Thyself". In other words, if AA meetings are keeping you clean, and that works for you, then go to AA meetings and do the conversions in your head. (ie drinking = using) Like the others said, be honest, but there is a lot that does not need to be divulged.

happycamper · MIP Old Timer

Im with cooncatbob, he shares some very good points.

Another idea ... start a new NA meeting in your area. Focus on good 'chairing', and keeping it structured.

Im a pot smokin drunk too. Been to a few NA meetings and felt so out of place. I certainly didnt belong there and am so thankful to have found my place in AA. But then again ... I am an alcoholic, so Im right where I belong

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

Blu858 wrote:

I did read the pamplet. The pamplet does not say- you're in. Too me (my situation) it say's- you're out. I was hoping the sentiment was considered out dated. I do realize it was written by Bill W.
No my friend it's not out dated. AA is still not the answer to all problems and still has but one primary purpose which is to carry it's message to the alcoholic who still suffers, a purpose for which a non alcoholic is not suited. BCS's views may not be popular in our modern all inclusive world, but he speaks the truth. Even the third tradition, the only requiremnt for membership is a desire to stop drinking is only part of the picture. In needs to be taken in its intended context (a tradition for an organisation whose sole purpose is to help alcoholics) which can be seen in the long version which starts 'Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism.... It really is dishonest, when alcohol is not a problem for an individual, for them to then say but I want to stop drinking so therefore I am a member. That is not the true intent of the tradition and it harms our fellowship.
In my case, I am an Alcoholic. I don't understand, relate to or know the first thing about drug addiction. I find that whole scene completely alien. Luckily for me the person who 12 stepped me was an alcoholic, had it been a non alcoholic addict, I doubt if I would be here. If you sent me to see an addict, I wouldn't know where to start, except to suggest he contact the appropriate fellowship.
An impression I have, which may be completely wrong, I wouldn't know, is that Cocaine Anonymous, maybe nearer to what you are looking for.
The real point here is a non-alcoholic cannot carry the message to a real alcoholic (the 12th step). If they could, AA would not need to exist. If you can't practice the 12th step, what is the point? On the other hand, other fellowships, maybe NA, maybe CA, need you desperately, there you can practice the 12th step and experience the full rewards this program has to offer.

God bless,
MikeH

Tracey C · Senior Member

For myself I have found this board itself to be a wonderful help on many levels. I am not an alcoholic but I do have a problem with food. When I can I attend overeaters anon meetings about once every 3 weeks. In between I hop on this board and I call my sponsor. I also attend al-anon meetings and when I'm home I read as much literature from all programs as I can. There are many different ways you can help yourself if you're not feeling comfortable at the meetings.

Kind Regards,

Tracey

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Welcome Blu858 to "MIP"...

mikef · MIP Old Timer

Hi blu858,Blessings of this day!

If you have a 12/12 book look at pages 139 thru 145, it gives agreat rundown on your dilema(also taking in account others ESH here)..."he soon proved he was a desperate case and above all else he wanted to get well,"will you let me join your group"I am the victim of another addiction even worse stigmatized than alcoholism,you may not want me among you?" read on.............. SO THE HAND OF PROVIDENCE EARLY GAVE US A SIGN THAT ANY ALCOHOLIC IS A MEMBER OF OUR SOCIETY WHEN "HE" SAYS SO(btm of pg 145).For me it does get blurry when we look at tradition 5 and tradition 12 (as Fyne Spirit has stated)but I always respect the house im in with language condusive to the fellowship(my stuff)I have seen thru the years that in my area, there seemed to be more tolerance for one who shared as clean and sober(NA)(alcohol is a drug)than one sharing as an ANDA(alcoholic and addict)in A.A....The perception and difference of 'addiction as a disease(see the disease model of addiction) and as a "symptom of is really BIG and as a sponsor I would find it difficult(although I have 12th stepped both )to work steps based on the difference.Remember this is my stuff and do not let anyone keep you from any rooms as you seek recovery a day at a time.Trust in the guidance of your Higher Power(your own concept)get a sponsor and listen to learn,let the healing continue...truly MORE WILL BE REVEALED..... smile .

Toad · Senior Member

Hi,
Quote
There are problems;

I feel un-authentic introducing myself as an alcoholic.

I listen very closely to the readings that ask to refrain from sharing about problems other than alcohol.

I love the old timer AA meetings. I appreciate the great wisdom and perspectives. I also know other than a handful of enlightened folks- most would be offended if I shared I slammed heroin and cocaine for 15 years, was a thief, and thought of alcohol as a "low rent" drug. They would ask- "WTF are you doing here?"
Unquote
Sounds like you are a real addict.
I am a real alcoholic and addict.
I wanted to be special, I wanted to be different, I wanted to be the exception. I wanted life in recovery to be tailored to my
specifications. In order for me to get and stay clean and sober I had to drop that plan.
No on-line site on recovery can claim a representation of any 12 Step program.
So the door can swing easily.
Face to face meetings are a whole different deal. As you already know.
What is clear seems to be "Willing to go to any length".
Ride on,
Wayne

outsideissues · Newbie

Butt_Crack_Smoke wrote:
Want to kill people? Tell them that AA will fix their other addictions.

A heavy smoker, Wilson eventually suffered from emphysema and later pneumonia. He continued to smoke while dependent on an oxygen tank in the late 1960s. Wilson died of emphysema and pneumonia on January 24, 1971.

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Great thread!! For every belief and opinion there are also experiences. I was in Al-Anon for 9 years before coming into AA...part of that was because I couldn't or wouldn't stand the self righteous and self centered AA "Nazis" as they were call in that part of CA. They were loud and pounded the book and surely recited that they and only they had the path and the lantern and then.... One day I was at a place and time with another that no one including myself would have predicted before I got there. When there the other person took a phone call from a person she could not comprehend. This was a real estate office and I per-chance just dropped by. After a time trying to understand the person on the other side of the phone she held the phone out to me and said "Here I think this is for you". She didn't even know I was in the program and the person on the other side of the phone was a drunk drunk. I was not in AA at this time yet and still we talked. He said he wanted to quit and to get sober and needed help to do that. I told him that if he was serious about wanting help I'd come talk with him...me a member of the Al-Anon Family Groups...and when he said he was serious I was dead in the center of my promise to help and feeling anxious about it. I left her office and while traveling back to mine called the Central Office of AA and spoke with the chair of it who I had known for a while and spoke of my concern about going to 12 step a wet one and not being in AA. What my friend asked me was, "Who in the hell ever told you that a member of Al-Anon with long experience (9 years at this time) was not qualified to 12 step a drunk?". I had never heard that announcement was only assuming and afraid. He told me that he knew of my recovery and that I should go. I then checked it out with my HP and ended up on the south side of town called "sin city" surrounded by druggies and drunks wondering who the hell I was and why I was there. When I told them who I talked to they ushered me to where he was and the 12th step was done. No I didn't get him to a meeting or to the rehab...just listened and shared after which he mentioned, "Leave it to AA to send just the right person in a time of need". I think of this guy often and hope the best for him and attend AA meetings with another local drunk I 12 stepped after his Al-Anon wife called and asked that I come.

Point is? This is a spiritual program only a spiritual program and God as I understand God is the chair. I've never heard my HP specifically ask for a member of AA on all occasions. Funny now that I think of it.

Just a recovering fellow... smile

TwelveSteps · Senior Member

In my large metropolitan area it's unusual for any AA members to be "only" alcoholics and not have other addictions. There are people in my non-closed meetings who introduce themselves with "I'm X and I am an addict."

GG

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

Jerry F wrote:
I think of this guy often and hope the best for him and attend AA meetings with another local drunk I 12 stepped after his Al-Anon wife called and asked that I come.

Thanks Jerry,

a great example of how one alcoholic is uniquely capable of helping another. And of course you were transmitting something you had - recovery from alcoholism through the 12 steps.

God bless,

Mike H.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

In the story "Acceptance was the answer" the author describes a litany of drugs he used as a doctor who are self medicating all the concurrent problems he had as a result of alcoholism and also problems that led to the alcoholism. The guy actually was knocking himself out with morphine and pentothal and passed out before he could reach the bed.

In Dr. Bob's Nightmare Dr. Bob describes taking large doses of sedatives daily to help him function.

So I ask, "If we don't talk at all about drugs, why are drugs discussed in these stories IN THE BIG BOOK?"

It is very rare nowadays to find a "pure alcoholic." I consider myself one of the few people in AA who really got there ass kicked throroughly by alcohol alone but even with me I got mixed up with taking too much anxiety meds while drinking and I would also take any painkiller a person gave me though I didn't go out searching much for them.

So---I suspect that if there was no cocaine or heroin, you would have been an alcoholic. The problem is the same really. Alcoholism as your drug of choice addiction takes you to a different place than other drugs so for that reason, I see a need for ongoing distinction...Aside from that, take what you need. My recovery has yet to be messed up because the person next to me calls themselves a drug addict. I do get annoyed with drugalogues that I cannot identify with (usually from newcomer drug addicts that have not picked up on subtle rules and basic AA practices), but have also learned so much from addicts with lots of sober time that focus on recovery and solution and for that I am really grateful that they attend AA meetings too.

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

Mark,
I met that guy at a convention in 1981. He came to NZ to speak at our evening public meeting and he was a real scream. Absolutely hilarious entertaining speaker with a great message. We also had an Alanon speaker from Australia who also had a marvelous message and all this happened at about the time of my 1st birthday. I met all kinds of interesting people, even a television news reporter from Hawaii!.

I am one of those pure alcoholics (a bit of an oxymoron really) and I know we are fairly rare these days. I am also an "AA baby", also quite rare in this part of the world.

In threads like this one and similar discussions I have heard over the years, there often tends to be a difference between what is said or written and what is heard or read. Apart from the very early days when AA was very much finding its way, the tradition has always been to include all who suffer from alcoholism regardless of any other addiction or indeed any other of the many characteristics and failings a person might have. So being a drug addict most definitely does not exclude an alcoholic from membership in the fellowship of AA.

There was a time back in the eighties just before NA got started here that AA was the only 12 step fellowship operating. During that time the AA meetings were attended by "pure" drug addicts and also overeaters as neither of these groups yet had fellowships of their own. The AAs were extraordinarily tolerant as you would expect, and did not try to keep the program to themselves. During this time I was living in a smaller city and for a time the fellowship there was somewhat overrun with a largish group of loud and intolerant hard drug users and the meetings became rather unpleasant, and very off topic, to say the least. I had been sober about three or four years and still had my AA friends in my home town, so I was ok, I left those meetings and as I was travelling a lot, I just went to other meetings around the country. But what about the newcomer, to my shame I didn't give them much thought. An abiding memory I have was that of a middle aged female closet drinker who turned up at one of these meetings. It was her first meeting and her last. I tried to talk to her after the meeting but she made it plain we had nothing she wanted, she did not identify at all. More than that, I'll never forget the look of fear and bewilderment on her face as she left, stopping several times to look over her shoulder to make sure we weren't following.

In time NA and OA were formed and all fellowships benefited. But I often wonder how many alcoholics we lost in that time when we were trying to be all things to all people.

I wonder what the outcome would have been for that woman if she had experienced the approach described in the BB page 18 "But the ex problem drinker (alcoholic) who has found this solution , who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished."

So, in the eighties were we pioneers in AA? Were we breaking new ground. Hardly! in 1958 Bill W said this "Sobriety- freedom from alcohol- through the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps is the sole purpose of an AA group. Groups have repeatedly tried other activities, and they have always failed.... If we don't stick to these principles, we shall almost surely collapse. And if we collapse, we cannot help anyone."

Blu858 feels un-authentic introducing him/herself as an alcoholic. Does un-authentic mean false, deceptive, dishonest? How would he or she expect to reconcile that with a way of life that demands rigorous honesty?

Blu585 I would hope our meetings would not be so rude as to say WTF are you doing here. There are plenty of thieves, thugs and villains in AA but very few saints, and no one in a position to judge another. We do need friends and we try to be cooperative and helpful wherever we can, it is part of our 12 step work. Sometimes that might mean explaining what AA isn't as well.

'Course MIP isn't AA and you are very welcome here!

God bless
MikeH

Blu858 · Member

Thanks to everybody for welcoming me here! I really appreciate it. I'm a newcomer- 31 days today.

My experience here exactly reflects my face top face interactions in AA. Unfortunately at a time when I need recovery and support to stay clean, I'm giving a lot of mental energy to finding a comfortable, uncontroversial place to put down a foundation- which is a fantasy in the real world. Thank God I have my higher power.

I am in a sensitive and vulnerable state as I once again look to the 12 step program to get back on track. It's entirely my problem that I have a tendency to focus on the negatives when I'm in this state. In NA- I focus on the horseplay,the character defects. In AA- the folks that suggest I would be better suited in the other program.

At a time when I fight obsession and compulsion, feel lonely and need the unparalleled therapeutic value of one addict helping another- I meeting shop. The fact that I have not found a meeting I want to return to AND have not broadened my support group is my fault. I get snobby and condescending in NA and feel victimized in AA. I do own my inability to open up to anyone yet. I've got to change something in myself(not the AA or NA program) to save my life . I'm certain of that.

And where does my mind go now? To the fantasy of ONE program. Where all of us human beings so different but exactly alike in that we put something in our bodies to feel better get together to help each other live a CLEAN, SOBER life.

-- Edited by Blu858 on Friday 7th of October 2011 11:04:15 AM

Rainspa · Senior Member

To the fantasy of ONE program. Where all of us human beings so different but exactly alike in that we put something in our bodies to feel better get together to help each other live a CLEAN, SOBER life.

And it's a GOOD fantasy. It is the fantasy that killed the Washintonian movement-a movement that sobered up a HUGE number of drunks. What? Never heard of it?

MY point exactly.

If you look at AA liturature it's pretty clear: you know the answer.
Google AA Blue Paper, read the actual liturature; the answer isn't hidden.

I am an alcoholic; I can't sponsor you.
I don't understand what and who you are, and what your experience is.
You really can't relate to my experience; you haven't lived it.
If you are not an alcoholic, you don't have the ability to sponsor another alcoholic (step 12)

The point of a 12 step program is .....wait for it.....a little more.....

TO DO THE STEPS

All 12, in order, as written.

The FELLOWSHIP of AA are the meetings.

If you want to avoid NA because people in NA meetings act like horse's patoots then AA isn't the answer. We've got horse's patoots to spare. You just haven't met me yet.

The language of recovey is plural - WE are alcoholics, WE recovered, these are the steps WE took.

WE are addicts, WE recovered, these are the steps WE took.
Since you've stated which group you belong to avoiding the fellowship of YOUR peers is something you might want to talk about with your sponsor (point of a sponsor is to help you work the steps. (all 12, in order, as written))

If you want to cheat yourself out of recovery that's your business.

rrib · Senior Member

Rainspa wrote:
Google AA Blue Paper

Are you talking about N.C.C.A. (NATIONAL CLERGY CONFERENCE ON ALCOHOLISM) 'Blue Book', Vol.12, 1960, which tell's Bill Wilson's story?

Or the essay Bill W. wrote which became the G.S.O. phamplet Problems Other Than Alcohol ?

Or some other document?

Rainspa · Senior Member

Nope. My bad. Google AA blue card.

-- Edited by Rainspa on Saturday 8th of October 2011 07:19:17 PM

rrib · Senior Member

My google search points to the Grapevine Article- June 2004

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

With all due respect to Bill W, the subject matter and you AA historians here, I disagree with all this antiquated anecdotal evidence (and writings of Bill Wison, who is arguably not the best role model for a "Sober person") or of "other" types of addicts failing in AA. I've seen many who have had success working the steps, in AA, for other addictions. And guess what? Not everyone that completes the 12 steps goes on to sponsor people. Some are just not cut out for it, and imo, better left to those that are. If you did/do good for you. And if you believe that the path that you took is the only path, well that's your perception/reality isn't it? There should be other 12 step groups, for these "others" to attend, in a given area, but sometimes there isn't or the only available meeting is poor. Do we cast out these folks? I think not. I wish that this hard core fundamentalist segment of of our fellowship would get over themselves and Bill Wilson. This hero worship of him and ALL of his writings, imo, contributes greatly to the perception that AA is a cult. Bill Wison was just a man, with many addictions and problems, that was able to barely manage one of them.

Had he had a different outlook on addictions being different branches of the same tree, and done a combined 1st step, admitting that he was a drug addict, sex addict, nicotine addict, caffeine addict, control addict (Codependent)... maybe his mental health would have improved and he could've quit smoking and lived longer. He died a practising drug addict and directly as a result of his addiction (lung cancer/emphysema). Dr. Bob also died from lung cancer as did thousands of smokers and non smokers attending AA meetings that allowed smoking. Imagine if our founders weren't so narrow minded or naive, and had realized that smoking was a drug addiction and at least not allowed it in meetings. I have a good friend in the program now Frank, 36 years sober. He's a non smoker and is fighting lung cancer from second hand smoke, from attending meetings, before/during/and after hanging out with smokers.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 10th of October 2011 09:49:48 AM

rrib · Senior Member

StPeteDean wrote:
if you believe that the path that you took is the only path, well that's your perception/reality isn't it?

In the April 2004 issue of Box 4-5-9 there is an artical on Singleness of Purpose where Bob P's remarks to the 1986 conference are quoted.

He said, in part "I echo those who feel that if this Fellowship ever falters or fails, it will not be because of any outside cause. . . . it will be simply because of us . . . . It will be because we have too much fear and rigidity and not enough trust and common sense. . .

If you were to ask me what is the greatest danger facing Alcoholics Anonymous today, I would have to answer: the growing rigidity that is so apparent to me and many others. The increasing demand for absolute answers to nit-picking questions. Pressure for G.S.O. to enforce our Traditions. Screening alcoholics at closed meetings. . . . And in this trend toward rigidity, we are drifting further and further away from our co-founders. Bill, in particular, must be spinning in his grave, for I remind you that he was perhaps the most permissive person I ever met. One of his favorite sayings was, Every group has the right to be wrong; he was maddeningly tolerant of his critics; and he had absolute faith that faults in A.A. were self-correcting"

I'm glad I found the article. This issue keeps coming up. I doubt I have any answers in my back pocket but I believe maybe part of the solution is to be able to talk about it when it does come up.

-- Edited by rrib on Monday 10th of October 2011 09:43:52 AM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Thanks for that article rrib. I couldn't agree more. The same complaints here ring true with fundamentalist religious folks (many whom of which are AA zealots also). And we wonder why the fellowship gets accused of being a "religious cult". How many of these same folks would lose their mind at the suggestion to change the word "God" to "Higher Power" in the "approved literature"?

ANGELINA · Veteran Member

MY GOD WHAT BRILLIANT RESPONSES...TOOK ME AGES TO READ THEM ALL BUT AGREED WITH EVERYONE!
IT WAS NOT UNTIL I LOOKED AT MYSELF MORE CLOSELY WHEN I ACCEPTED I WAS ALCOHOLIC THAT I REALISED I HAD A DUEL ADDICTION...IF I HAD A SORE HEAD,I WOULD NOT TAKE TWO TABLETS IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MORE...
MY SISTER GOES TO A DIET GROUP AND GUESS WHAT..THEY USE THE 12 STEP PROGRAMME!..IF SHE MISSES A MEETING SHE GETS SENT A LETTER THAT SAYS
" SORRY YOU MISSED YOUR LAST MEETING,IF YOU HAD A "SLIP" DO NOT WORRY..THAT WAS THEN,TODAY IS ANOTHER DAY"
WE BELONG WERE OUR HEARTS TELL US THAT IS WERE WE BELONG...GO TO AA AND SUBSTITUTE THE WORD ALCOHOL WITH DRUG...
ALCOHOL IS A DRUG ....A drug is simply Any substance which when absorbed into a living organism may modify one or more of its functions.
KEEP ON DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING...GREAT LUCK AND LOVE
ANGELINA XOXO