Sometimes my sponsor is rude, even nasty towards me. I told him about issues I was having with another friend in AA, and he dismissed it as "bullshit". That is what he said. He also said that I and my friend were behaving childishly and that we should get over it. It's not the first time he's been blunt like that, but lately it has been bothering me. I am also in therapy right now for PTSD and criticism really bugs me right now. I've actually considered dumping him as a sponsor...I said I'd make a decision based on my meeting with my shrink. I need to stay sober to deal with my PTSD issues, so both therapy and AA help, but sometimes my sponsor's opinions clash with what I learn in therapy.
__________________
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just God when he's drunk.
Well....there are a few differences between a sponsor and a therapist
A therapist gets paid, he actually makes his living based on if you come back or not, so he can't piss you off or he loses his paycheck, and he learned what he knows in school, and in many cases, there are therapists who can't have a healthy relationship to save their life yet give you advice about how to have a healthy relationship, will give you advice about how to stay sober, then go home and get shitfaced every night, generally speaking other then therapists with -LONG TERM SOBRIETY IN AA- I have found therapists to not only useless in getting sober but possibly dangerous, once I was sober and had been for awhile and had worked the steps, therapy helped me immensly
I have had some -great- experiences with a -GOOD- therapist before, but also bad ones with incompetent ones, and have seen some do mind boggling things like convince the client that alcoholism was "just a label" and he should be able to "drink moderately if he put his mind to it"
A sponsor doesn't get paid, he's more interested in saving your life then hurting your feelings, and he learned what he learned from experience, not school
When my sponsor told me some was bullshit and I was being childish, he was usually right, and if I ran off in a snit and "told on him" all I was doing was proving him right
telling you something is bullshit isn't being rude, and telling you when you are being childish isn't mean, it's someone trying to help you grow up
now if you were to post some things he said that I actually thought were rude or mean, I might be inclined to change my mind, but to me it seems your issue isn't your sponsor is rude, but that he tells you things you aren't ready to hear yet in your current level of sobriety and emotional development
I have asked sponsors before to take it easy, and try to rephrase things in a way that didn't quite crush me as I was a bit of a raw nerve end and like every other new alcoholic, extremely sensitive, since it takes some of us (includuing me) a LONG time to overcome this serious handicap with great results
Like, Yo Stevo, man that really hurts my feelings when you call me childish and say "that's bullshit", can you think of a way to rephrase that so my feelings aren't quite so hurt?
sounds like he tells you the truth, and thats what we do in AA, although we learn to do it with love, so do you want someone in your life/sobriety to tell the truth, or do want someone to hold back and NOT tell you the truth when you are behaving childishly and a situation is "bullshit"
it's up to you, but sobriety is about getting out of our own way and getting our heads out of our bums, since that is what is wrong with us in the first place
Now that "Srage" has had his say, you will hear some different opinions, and get some fluffy bunny hugs from some of the other regulars on the forums lol
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 13th of September 2011 10:07:00 PM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
So I would consider myself one of the fluffy ones. My sponsor has been very loving and direct. I have taken just about all of her suggestions, because I believe she has some soundness of mind while I am still working on it. We keep our business to step work for the most part.
I certainly understand about wanting to share what's going on with me outside of my step work with a sponsor and I often do in e-mail check-ins. I don't expect a response in these cases, it's so she has a good idea where my head is at. She avoids advice giving and sticks to the principles of the program. When I have a beef it's mostly with other members. I figure alot of non-program people are full of it and dysfunctional, so I ignore any bad feelings about them folks. Us alkies in A.A. are supposed to be working a program right.. so what's up with them? (Smiles)
Laughing aside, it's hard when I think I'm having a hard time with someone in the program, cause I rely so much on you all, the fellowship is a big part of me having a life to save. Over the last few months, at any given moment I can make a list of at least 4-6 members who's behavior makes me want to change home groups and find a different A.A. I call them border line resentments in my head. One of these people made my list on my annual housecleaning step 4.
So back to the sponsor thing. I recently got perspective from another point of view. I was asked to sponsor some one else for the first time. The step work was great, we chugged along and I didn't press her regarding a lack of meeting attendence, which was her reason for letting the previous sponsor go.
Well everything was great until step 9. Months went by. She kept wanting to talk about people who were pissing her off. I finally told her I need our sponsorship relationship to focus on step work. I said things nicely for awhile. Then I got so uncomfortable that I had to call it like I saw it..."you are dragging your feet on this step, do you think you might be balking?" I asked her how we might better work together to address where she's at, made a few different suggestions how she might proceed. I thought it was a good conversation, no unpleasantry.
Shortly afterwards, she said, "thank you very much, I know what I need to do and I'm going to do it on my own." Today we remain friends, but not sponsor/sponsee. I think that's because I kept it clear, but fluffy. I was ultimately relieved to be relieved of duty because it's a lot of hard work!!! Although I will say that it was emmensly rewarding and I will do it again when I am asked.
This weekend she told me after I asked if she had a new sponsor that she hasn't been doing much but going to a few meetings. Today part of me wishes I'd called "bull" on the, "I'll self-sponsor and can figure it out myself". In the end, the sponsorship relationship is not a contract and can be ended at any time. I want to work with some one who wants to work the steps. It is life and death, and I do care.
Some of us Alkies are out there not working a good program and sponsoring. My sponsor is dedicated, I want what she has, so I listen carefully to what she has to say. There were a few times I thought I saw "cracks" in her "jive". I mulled it over carefully and decided that was my squirly mind taking over. Sometimes two people are just not a good fit. Before ending the relationship I would take some time to meditate carefully on the whole picture. I would want to be able to go to my sponsor and tell her about the doubts I was having, honestly. I feel I could if I needed to and call it a good kind of fluff. We have established some basic things already and have weathered one conversation that didn't go so well. After that one we were able to get to the bottom and both accept eachother as imperfect humans working hard to stay sober 1 day at a time.
My sponsor was a kind & loving person. He lived a life that was an attraction to me. He lived the 12 steps. His family life was very good. His finances were good. His disposition with his superiors was good. He was firm with me when it came to working on the steps, especially, steps 4-9. He was never vulgar or crass. I emulated his life because it was what I wanted in mine. My therapist was also a good man, but never understood alcoholism, because I lied to him about the symptoms. Sponsors are human beings, and the book tells me that probably no human being could have relieved my alcoholism, and that God could and would if He were sought. This is read almost everyday in meetings but actually very few believe it.
I agree with LinnBaba on this. My first sponsor, God rest his soul, told me the way it was and called me on my bullshit and that's why I picked him. I didn't need to be treat like a baby I needed to be treat like a grown man who was prone to screwing up everything he touched. I treat my sponsees the same way he worked with me, and many of them tell me that's why the picked me. They heard me talk in meetings and talked to me after meetings and knew I took recovery seriously. Alcoholism is a serious desease and needs to be treated as such. I was told a long time ago that a good sponsor "Comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable".
__________________
Tell me and I'll forget. Teach me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll learn.
My first sponsor Bob S. was a mid 80 year old man( I was 37 years old,after 25 years of active addiction)when I surrendered.He was more of a mentor than a sponsor,who worked in the prison system with lifers and those who seemed to have no hope.He was hard ,miserable,constantly talked of having no love in his life(though I would tell him I loved him)and did not seem to be "enjoying" his sobriety.He would swear at me, tell me I thought I knew everything(which I thought did)and constantly checked up on me to see I was making meetings.He died lonely,miserable with no one in his life, but in sobriety.I loved him dearly but many others could not get a grip on hm.I was one of just a few who attended his funeral,not even his family was there.He had over 25 years freedom from active alcoholism.This is my ESH.You will meet many people along the road, and each one individual in their own process.I would highly suggest you read the World Service LITERATURE ON SPONSORSHIP(P-15) so you get an understanding of what our program talks about and some of the things sposorship does and does not include...,even though sponsorship takes many different forms with the main premise being one of helping the sponsee work through and understand the spiritual principles of our step work.. YOU MAY NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR DISEASE BUT YOU AR RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR RECOVERY.HAVING A RESENTMENT WITH SOMEONE WHO IS THERE TO HELP ISNT GOING TO HELP YOU GET IN RECOVERY MODE AND RESENTMENTS WILL BE A KILLER........People are human and have all different kinds of emotions and some are sicker than others even in recovery...Just because we put the substance down doesnt mean we have recovered, but it is necessary to start there.I have a sponsor NOW who is loving and caring in his approach with me,a spiritual God guided person,who lives his life accordingly.He doesnt cosign anY junk from me and tells me immediately what he is hearing and seeing when we communicate,He does not give advice but always suggests what has worked for him and what hasnt.He always reminds me I have a 3rd/11th step in mylife and I need to live there daily.I can only suggest you look inside,see whats going on,take an inventory,be honest and say whats on your mind so that THAT universe between our ears doesnt take you to la LA land where it wasnt very pleasnt to say the 'least" (keeping it on me) was at Deaths doorstep, no joke ,no game suffering a deadly illness,that the God(of my understanding) allowed me to make a decision(though God's grace and mercy) to save my life and lead me to a program that showed me a "new way to live"..Keep coming back okay!!! I know I certainly took a lot more verbal assault while using then I did when in the process of recovery, I survive a day at a time, looking inside, maybe not liking what I hear from my support but always seeking the honesty in it.We dont want to kill the messenger they may only be carrying the message "the best way they know how.!!I am also from the school of Bunny Rabbits!!! If you want what we have ,do what we do,I did want to get into sobriety like BOB S (rest his tormented being) but I did not come into recovery to be miserable,definitely my stuff!! :) :) peace.
__________________
Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Hi, Don't hurt my feelings or else !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have had those feelings. I also acted on those feelings. In early recovery I had little clue what my feelings even meant. I did discover I reacted. I was over sensitive. I did need to grow up. Also I discovered I did not know how to pull it off. Somehow I knew I could not survive another stone and drunk. Hurt feelings were better than my last drunk. I could survive hurt feelings. Wayne
It took me a few go-rounds with sponsor and other hardcore folks that dressed me down at meetings, that they weren't saying my problems were bullshit, or that they didn't matter. They were saying my problems didn't have anything to do with staying sober. Even if I didn't present a problem as "if I don't solve this I'll go drink", that's how they heard it. And for a newcomer, that's exactly it. I never had the conscious thought to drink over it, but they could see that's where it leads. Of course whatever resentment I had at the time was now redirected toward whoever called me out, and I figured out that's ok too.
LinBaba wrote:SOBRIETY IN AA- I have found therapists to not only useless in getting sober but possibly dangerous, once I was sober and had been for awhile and had worked the steps, therapy helped me immensly-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 13th of September 2011 10:07:00 PM
I found therapy useful when I was going through my divorce, at 5 years sober. I don't think a therapist could have gotten me sober. It helps to have some goals. I really had no specific goals for therapy other than "get me through this". AA didn't provide the sympathetic ear and warm fuzzies that I needed at the time - just as psychotherapy could not have provided the straight talk and action program I needed to get sober. Because I had been sober a while, I was sane enough to know what I needed even though I was in so much pain it was often hard to see.
A combination of firm but with tact is best. For a sponsor, I have to want what they have. I don't want anything that a mean and crotchety Ahole has. Knowledge is imparted and not drilled into you.
With that said...I think your sponsor was probably right...but being blunt.
I agree that probably you were having a childish argument with the other person in AA and also probably you should just get over it. The same result could come about just by your sponsor telling you "What is your part in it?" and "Did you keep your side of the street clean?"
Yes, your arguments, relationships, and mindset is going to be childish and over-emotional early in sobriety. Your sponsor should know that and temper patience with wisdom. That is my take. Not everyone's perfect though.
My first sponsor told me he "would not cosign my bullshit" and all sort of things like you mentioned. I thought it was so wrong at the time and I complained about him a lot. Of course now I realize he was helping me for free and all my "problems" really were some whiney childish bullcrap. I also complained and whined that I had depression and anxiety problems that I saw a therapist and psychiatrist for. My therapist thought I needed a "softer" sponsor. Go figure. I think I needed exactly what I got, cuz I did stay sober and I did grow up and change a lot.
Nobody can say anything that hurts my feelings unless there is some truth in it. If they are wrong when they say harsh stuff to me, then I get angry and tell them to piss off or I ignore them. If I get upset and take it personal, then it's because it's usually true. So...I would go back to your sponsor after thinking about how your actions may actually be childish and then think of a solution. Otherwise you will just have more of the same arguments and social problems that upset you.
AA is a different approach than therapy. It is highly solution based and meant to create radical but necessary change. Just go with it and ask questions later lol. Lastly, another saying is "AA is not for wimps." I may like soft and fluffy, I might think I need soft and fluffy, but what I think is what got me in the rooms in the first place.
An example of this would be how I get into it with LinBaba on this site sometimes, but he is the person I probably learn the most from at the same time.
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Whether a therapist is right for me, and the same regarding a sponsor, is best determined by the results I am seeing in myself. I have enough sobriety to trust myself and my higher power to guide me right and not put me in a toxic state due to someone else's influence.
A good therapist is not interested in stringing me along and a good sponsor is not crappy to me--I won't tolerate either. As far as PTSD goes, having such a chronic recurring condition, with at times acute re-emergence, I trust my expert, specially trained, practitioner over an opinionated, untrained layman. It is a dangerous condition for someone to mess with when they don't know what they are doing. I have found you can't just generalize and paint all therapists or all sponsors with the same brushes--they both come in all kinds of "quality" levels. The principles of AA are not counter to any principles of improving wellness, and neither is good psychotherapy honestly applied. When I am sensing an "either-or" kind of tension, or contradictory input, then I really need to make sure my 11th step is fully operational!
I discussed it with my therapist and he encouraged me to address it with my sponsor ASAP. So the next day, I did speak with my sponsor and simply let him know how I felt. LOL, a lightning bolt did not strike me.
He did apologize for hurting my feelings. He says he never means to do that - it's his job to be honest with me and my program. We did discuss my issue with my AA friend and he said that it would blow over. For now he wanted me to communicate with him more, do a 90 & 90 and work harder on getting thru Step 6. He also said that he was with his sponsor in another state, and that they were having serious issues with an acquaintance in the program who had a nasty relapse, and admitted that he was feeling very passionate about staying sober and some of that may have come out doing our talk. He is still my sponsor; he has done great work helping me stay sober and I don't want to give that up for now. So all is well. The friendship??? He's leaving that up to me. But he did say that the longer one sits on something, the greater the resentment.
I greatly appreciate all the feedback that you all have given me here. Even at 48, I feel like the awkward teen I was over 30 years ago when I picked up my first drink. Thanks for your support.
__________________
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just God when he's drunk.
I discussed it with my therapist and he encouraged me to address it with my sponsor ASAP. So the next day, I did speak with my sponsor and simply let him know how I felt. LOL, a lightning bolt did not strike me.
He did apologize for hurting my feelings. He says he never means to do that - it's his job to be honest with me and my program. We did discuss my issue with my AA friend and he said that it would blow over. For now he wanted me to communicate with him more, do a 90 & 90 and work harder on getting thru Step 6. He also said that he was with his sponsor in another state, and that they were having serious issues with an acquaintance in the program who had a nasty relapse, and admitted that he was feeling very passionate about staying sober and some of that may have come out doing our talk. He is still my sponsor; he has done great work helping me stay sober and I don't want to give that up for now. So all is well. The friendship??? He's leaving that up to me. But he did say that the longer one sits on something, the greater the resentment.
I greatly appreciate all the feedback that you all have given me here. Even at 48, I feel like the awkward teen I was over 30 years ago when I picked up my first drink. Thanks for your support.
