Would any of you date someone that still lived with their ex and paid for all of their ex's entire living expenses? I am just wondering if I am crazy. I am also nurturing a fat ass resentment that is all riddled with icky hate and jealousy. This has truly been the bane of my existence the last 6 months. Some program I'm working. So down at the moment. Nasty screaming fight took place between me and the boyfriend's live in ex. I keep trying to apply the spiritual axiom and what not and to keep my own side of the street clean....and it's not working. What do you do when you just really start hating someone and can't stop? Also, is it okay to make demands in relationships? Like "this person goes or I go?" Truly this is a CoDA issue I know, but AA is the program I try and live by to keep it simple.....though I have complicated my personal life a bunch lately.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks...for the topic. I wouldn't date anyone who still had some excess baggage lying around. Talk about a resentment waiting to happen. Who in their right mind would allow anyone the luxury of mooching off them anyway? I mean, what's up with that? If the feelings toward that person is no longer nurturing, then why allow them to stay there in the first place. That sounds simply ludicrous to me, doesn't it? The last person I would ever allow back into my abode is the Ex-wife who told me **uck off, shortly after I discovered her secret liaisons with my so-called good friend. I wouldn't allow her free reign to do what she pleased, and I don't think anyone with some sense about them would as well. Of course, that's my opinion and only my opinion. Inevitably, the choice is up to you. Here's my suggestion though...take some extra time before you proceed from here. Both your sobriety and future relationships deserve at least that. I'll continue to pray for both a favorable outcome -on your behalf, and for the strength to carry on despite the end result.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Sunday 21st of August 2011 12:40:40 AM
I wouldn't Mark, this man is still "enmeshed" in another relationship, it's not a "couple" it's a "threesome"
Boundaries aren't "you need to change your behavior or I go" boundaries are "this is what I will do to protect myself from this behavior", this behavior is he is still enmeshed in a prior relationship, so rather then try to get him to change, ask yourself do you want to share your botfriend with someone else?
Because you are sharing your life with both of them
Ask yourself, what in you makes you choose someone who is emtionally unavailable, since he is still in a relationship with someone else, rather then change him, change yourself, and he won't look so attractive any more
When my GF left me in early sobriety I -dove- into my program, took 6 months and "formally" did the steps, and when it was all over my sponsor asked me how I felt...Are you over Margo he asked (i had been devestated, lost 50 lbs in 30 days, didn't sllep for weeks, just threw up and cried a lot, she was 'the love of my life'")
I said, I feel great, he said, OK, well if you are truly over her, she'll be back (WHAT!!??!!) yeah, she'll be back, and the truth is my job is to make you healthy enough so she doesn't appear attractive any more...well he failed miserably and I got back together with her and drank 3 years later, but I digress (joking, he didn't fail, I am exceptionally stupid and stubborn)
boundaries are healthy, and have nothing to do with ultimatums but more to do with picking healthy people to have in our lives, rather then "you need to change" something like "I will choose someone who is actually single to have a relationship with"
The difference is, what we often think of as boundaries are actually attempts at behavior modification, like going out on the freeway then trying to get the Semi's to "behave" to stop "running us over" we spend countless hours on what we -think- is our program try to solve this seemingly unsolvable problem, we give the trucks ultimatums, we lecture them, we buy them Semi self help books, we go to Semi 12 step support groups, we read books, "Men Who love semis too much", we yell, we beg, we plead, we fight with their mechanic or bribe them, we try everything we can to get them to not be "Semi's", but alas, they are, so they keep running us over, nothing we do will change that
it's all meaningless
Don't play on the freeway, trucks don't run us over
It's that simple, It really is
What you came looking for, you came looking with
your "truth" and your answers, you just aren't ready, aren't willing to face it yet, but you know what the right thing to do is, and since you aren't doing it, it's making you spiritually sick
I know what thats like, having done it myself, now what I have to offer is my experience, I hope you learn to offer your hindsight and experience rather then your pain and suffering faster then I did
probably not a bad idea to visit that whole "take a year off from dating and work on yourself thing" that is suggested, relationships are just like any other addiction, they mask what is truly going on inside, as a matter of fact, as far as I can tell they are, for most of us in AA, is some form or another our main addiction, for me working my program IS working on my relationships with others, well and God and the Universe etc, but that is just another relationship, but taking a year or two off to be alone and actually addressing these issues will pay vast dividneds, ask Dean, Jerry etc the guys you respect
It takes what it takes Mark, and you will do what you are going to do regardless of what anyone says, you and I share this trait in common, we suffer from an inability to learn from others mistakes and insist upon making them ourselves in a grand fashion, until we are in so much pain, we do the work, but know you aren't alone in having relationships in early sobriety be incredibly painful, and I hope your pain threshold is getting higher as you get more sober, so it doesn't quite take so much pain before you do what you know is right in your heart
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 21st of August 2011 01:05:29 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Been there, done that. Don't want to do it again. She messed my head big style. It was an affair. It didn't work. It hurt. Are you putting yourself in a position to be hurt?
-- Edited by bikerbill on Sunday 21st of August 2011 03:37:25 AM
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Hi Mark, In my experience if there is one area that is fraught with danger for alcoholics, its relationships. Whether romantic or business or social. The problem is, as my sponsor told me in the early days, that people have feet of clay. The minute we pin any aspect of our emotional well being to the behaviour of another human being we are headed for trouble because they will eventually let us down - even if they don't mean to. Another thing my sponsor told me because I once got mixed up in someone elses relationship, is that the intruder usually the one who gets hurt. I guess if were in your position now I might ask what is Gods will in this, and perhaps meditate on whether my desire in this relationship is consistant with His will for me. I could ask my self these questions to help me sort it out.
Self Will- No Power Is it dishonest? Is there resenment? Is it selfish? Is there fear?
Or God's will = Power ( Must have all 4 absolutes) Is it Honest? Is it Pure? Is it Unselfish? Is it Loving?
Bill's post was thought provoking. The BB talks about making a decision based on Self that later placed us in a position to be hurt.
Hey Mark, I set a boundary for myself. I can only date people that are available (of course I'm married now so this is on the old operating system lol). I like the 6 month rule. They (and I) need to be out of any previous serious relationships for at least 6 months, so that they (and I) can be emotionally available. It's self destructive to be in a relationship with someone who is not available.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 21st of August 2011 06:25:09 AM
Hey Mark THOUGH I HAVE BEEN MARRIED NOW(3RD TIME(FOR 27 YEARS AND GOING TOGETHER FOR 3 YEARS PREVIOUSLY,I HAVE BEEN THERE.i WASN'T DATING I WAS CHEATING ON MY FIRST AND SECOND WIVES WITH OTHER MARRIED WOMEN.IT CAUSED TREMENDOUS HURT AND PAIN TO EVERYONE.POWERLESSNESS=ANY DRIVING FORCE IN OUR LIVES THAT ARE BEYOND OR OUT OF CONTROL.GIVING ULTIMATUMS TO OTHERS NEVER REALLY WORKS,IT CREATES EVEN MORE RESENTMENTS THAT ALWAYS SEEM TO RESURFACE SOMETIME OR ANOTHER.I WILL PRAY YOU DO A DEEP SEARCHING INSIDE AND MAKE A DECISION ON KEEPING YOURSELF "SPIRITUALLY FIT" TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY.SOUNDS LIKE THAT AIN'T HAPPENIN NOW.....IN SUPPORT AND PRAYER ,LET US KNOW WHAT COMES UP OKAY.....
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Brother your post reminded me of something an early sponsor taught me and I heard his voice over my shoulder as I was reading your post. "Listen to what you are saying as if you were someone else and then decide what it looks like to you." What are the words that you would use to describe it and then think of the ways to amend it or accept the insanity of it along with the pain.
Did I need another person to verify what I already knew about the situation or did I need more courage and support to change it for me?
Where's your HP in all of this and what does your HP say about it? Where does your HP want you? Take that position. What you describe sounds crazy...for me and then I understand from my own experiences.
Sorry to hear you have not been in a great space lately, especially since I know you have worked hard on your recovery and have made good progress.
I will preface my experience by stating I got sober at 24, and was married for the first time @ 38 (been almost 13 years now), and a fair amount of dating in between.
Would any of you date someone that still lived with their ex and paid for all of their ex's entire living expenses?
If I thought I could casually date them and not get emotionally invested and have expectations on the changes I want to take place, then maybe. It's a pretty volitile and unhealthy situation so I think I would end up not getting involved. Poke at the beehive you have to accept getting stung.
What do you do when you just really start hating someone and can't stop?
I would get away from the situation/person, go to more meetings, help a drunk, try to pray for those who I resent and are possibly sick. Resentment is the #1 offender, we all have been there, we just can't live in that spiritual sickness. You have options GTFO. Surrender
Also, is it okay to make demands in relationships? Like "this person goes or I go?"
Bottom of page 60 and the top of 61.
We can only control our own actions, playing God and trying to force others to change usually doesn't work, they have to decide for themselves. I would make my decision and stick to my values, If things are to change to where a healthy relationship can take place then so be it.
I know I personally need to stay clear of emotional drama, I really try to show emotional strength in all relationships. Maybe this is a little bit sick in itself, maybe I'm too hardened. I guess it's just what I needed to do to stay sober and try to grow spiritually in the right direction.
My wife has her faults, but I trust her 100% in the areas needed. Without trust in a relationship you have nothing.
Hope this can help
-- Edited by Rob84 on Monday 22nd of August 2011 12:40:11 AM
-- Edited by Rob84 on Monday 22nd of August 2011 12:42:16 AM
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
This does help guys. It's a tricky situation... The ex is supported due to citizenship issues and my BF believing that this completely prevents the ex from working. The ex takes advantage of this and is a lazy turd that disrespects BF, meddles in our relationship, and is completey ungrateful.
Yes, I know I am judging him and taking his inventory. That's how I see it though.
P.S. They have been broken up for 5 years but stayed living together since. At the start of the relationship I was told "We broke up and now are just best friends." What I came to insideously find out is that it isn't really a friendship that they have. The boundaries are very muddled. My BF takes care of the ex like a child when the ex is 40 years old. The ex has tantrums and controls my BF to the point that BF thinks it's futile to "argue" with the ex. So...the ex winds up taking no responsibility and continuing on in a child like state. This is the type of enabling that one would usually see when one person is a substance abuser (and also when the couple is still together). I am so tired of the sick triangle that I have put up boundaries now either they will be respected or I am moving on.
I do hate learning through pain but it is the most effective way for me unfortunately (you are right about that assessment Lin). Also, I know that part of what really bothers me about the ex is that I worked so hard to not be a manchild anymore and to not take advantage of others that it makes me angry and sick to see someone else like that (though sadly I actually do identify since I used to be like that when I drank-and am still working on it in many areas).
-- Edited by pinkchip on Monday 22nd of August 2011 01:30:11 PM
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Happycamper...that was a good way of putting it. I am still sick and this leads me into a lot of trouble. It would seem only the program and spiritual growth can offer me the type of sanity and wisdom to make sane choices. Otherwise, I will intellectualize myself into buying my own cartload of BS. I used to do and think a lot of things that troubled me....but I just drank to deal with it. Now I progress to feeling high levels of pain and misery and get all enmeshed in drama before learning to draw boundaries and make choices that I guess are right for me.
This emotional sobriety stuff is not easy but I know it's worth it.
Thanks guys.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
"Would any of you date someone that still lived with their ex and paid for all of their ex's entire living expenses?" NO...self-abuse is not in my best interest ...nor god's will for me.
The most significant change I've experienced in my life is from having been married at a young age for over a decade and completely unable to envision a life being single, to having built a wonderful life full of friends and activities that I love -- enough that I enjoy dating and am open to a serious relationship, but I don't NEED someone to complete my life. The result is that I look at every relationship not with the attitude of, "How can I fix this to make it work, because it HAS to work," but, "Is this relationship making me happy now, or does it have the potential to make me happy if we do a few things differently?" I don't presume to make assumptions here, but just based on your posts I get the sense that you're taking the former approach to this relationship.
All we have is today, and it sounds like this relationship is causing you a world of hurt today. Only you can tell if the enjoyment you feel from being with this person balances that out. I commend you for approaching it all with duh an attitude of emotional sobriety!
