I hope I'm not being inappropriate in joining these boards, as I'm not an alcoholic myself but my partner is. I knew he was before I began to date him, so it does not affect my opinion on him, but having been with him for a while I've noticed things I didn't notice before, things he blames on the disease. Everything bad, "it's because of the disease." I have come here to try and understand.
I know I can't truly understand, but I want to know if his feelings are normal and true, or if he is using this as an excuse for his moods and attitudes, to try to push me away. I understand how alcoholism isn't just as simple as not drinking but it seems to affect him all round.
When he goes to meetings he is fine. But if he doesn't get to as many meetings as he needs, things start to go all wrong. His perception of things (situations, people) changes, he accuses me of looking at him in a certain way when I really don't. He accuses me of looking at other people, when again I don't, he doesn't like me to go out with my friends as he thinks I'm going to cheat on him, which I'm not going to. Very paranoid basically. And he gets so... difficult - being really picky with insignificant things, resent people for very small things, very sensitive, he gets irritable, restless, stressed. He is mean to me and tries to push me away, saying we are never going to work (yet when he is well I'm the most wonderful woman he has ever met, tells me how great I am, he is full of love and affection). He can also be very manipulative, and unreliable. He says all his defects of character come out when he misses AA meetings and his head goes crazy, he also gets fearful. he calls all of this classic alcoholic behavior > is this true? I haven't seen him for over a month now, as it never seems to be a good idea to see him when he is sick; he always picks a fight with me and says he would rather not see me than meet up and fall out or make tensions. He said it's not choice but need.
In a non-alcoholic context, this behavior is unfair and can verge on cruel sometimes, but does the disease do this to a person? Having been in an abusive relationship before I am now very aware of the signs; control, jealousy, manipulation... This man, he is so very kind and a good person, I can't see him being abusive, but the signs are there and it frightens me, but perhaps it's me being paranoid.
He's also said nothing but AA can help him, which makes me feel useless and bad. Is there really nothing I could do to help him? I'm being as supportive as I can but hate the fact that I can't do anything myself to help him properly.
I apologize if I'm being intrusive, I understand it's all very personal and I don't really have the right to be involving myself here, but I didn't know where else to go and thought here would be the best place to get some insight.
"When he goes to meetings he is fine. But if he doesn't get to as many meetings as he needs, things start to go all wrong. His perception of things (situations, people) changes..."
Learning about alcoholism and the disease and how it affects us sounds important to you and may help you see why he gets this way. I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert here, as my time in recovery is but a few months. This is just my 2 cents in response to your questions. There is another group, a group called Al-Anon, which may be able to help you understand. These are typically the people who love and live with us alcoholics. They have a message board here, you can get to it by the main MIP page. You may want to repost this topic there, they may be able to help you better. It is a great thing that you are reaching out and trying to understand what is going on with your boyfriend. In turn, you may find that the best thing you can do to help him is to take care of yourself. Good luck & Peace.
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I asked God for all things that I may enjoy life. He gave me life so that I may enjoy all things.
Hey, thank you very much, I've heard about Al-Anon, I will go over there too :) glad to hear about your recovery. I hope nobody minds if I come on here from time to time.
I'm mainly interested to see if this behavior is common with other alcoholics, and if it isn't unusual. I'm just so wary about being walked over, as I'm quite a soft and sensitive individual. I don't want him to be mean to me and blame it on the disease just because I wouldn't know any better, if that makes any sense.
I think it's very nice of you to put some effort into finding out what he's going through. I agree with nezyB that Al-anon is a great resource for you.
IMHO, what he has sounds like abstinence rather than sobriety. For us (recovered alcoholics) sobriety means changing your whole way of looking at life so that the things you used to drink over don't bother you, and you don't behave like somebody who needs or wants to get drunk. In contrast, somebody who is merely abstaining by sheer force of will without trying to change his worldview is called, somewhat uncharitably, a dry drunk. They have a better than average chance of relapsing and usually do not stay dry for more than a couple of years at a stretch. He may be going to AA relying mostly on the fellowship and mutual support rather than embracing the 12 steps and character changes that are the heart of the program. Does he have a "sponsor", somebody who is shepherding him through the process?
Regarding his saying that AA is the only thing that can help him, do not take this too hard. Frankly, most of us find that very few people really understand or tolerate our situation who has not been there themselves, not even spouses or parents or best friends. It's just the way things are.
That being said, if you DO want to help him, I'm not sure there's NOTHING you can do. My wife played a big part in my recovery. She has authority in my life and recruited others in my life with authority (like my doctor) to confront me in a loving and gentle way. I think authority is key. You MUST have the person's voluntary respect for this to work. I think you may not be married, so this may or may not work for you. You might want to try recruiting others that he knows and respects to speak to him.
All THAT being said, if you're not married to the guy, I think it's perfectly legitimate for you to consider whether or not you owe him any of this. If he refuses to change and you've made no vow to him, I think you might want to consider if your life needs to go another direction.
Probably more yakking than you wanted, but please take anything you find useful and discard the rest.
-- Edited by zzworldontheweb on Sunday 14th of August 2011 04:30:55 PM
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Thank you very much for your reply, very helpful :) and very much appreciated also.
I think you may be right when you said about abstinence rather than sobriety. He is young (26) and entered recovery three years ago (I think three years anyway,) I've only known him for a year and a half and he was drinking when I first knew him. He says now that it was a relapse but I think he was trying to drink like other men, as we often drank socially with others. Though he hasn't drank once since then, a year and a half. His age is probably a significant factor?
His closest friends are alcoholics too and they're like his support network as well as AA. He speaks so highly of the program and is quite open about his alcoholism and it seems he does embrace the Twelve Steps and apply them in all areas of life, he even advises others on non-alcoholic related issues, based on things he has learnt there - accept the things you cannot change etc. Yeah he has a sponsor though I'm not sure how effective that is, I dont really know, though I know that a lot of people suffering phone him as he is a great talker, good with advice, he does a lot of chairs (isn't that the term?)
The reason for his lapse in meetings is that he had just gotten a full time job as well as having another project to work on, leaving him very short of time so he tried to manage his own life but he was very stressed out and overwhelmed I think. He's since quit that job to focus on said project and get himself back into the program again, as he says it comes first, otherwise he has nothing.
Yeah we're not married - but I do love him, though I'm not as happy as I normally am with him ATM. I'm getting a bit impatient tbh but that doesn't say a lot about me as a person, it's his time of need and I want to stick by him.
Hope this makes sense!
"n a non-alcoholic context, this behavior is unfair and can verge on cruel sometimes, but does the disease do this to a person? Having been in an abusive relationship before I am now very aware of the signs; control, jealousy, manipulation... This man, he is so very kind and a good person, I can't see him being abusive, but the signs are there and it frightens me, but perhaps it's me being paranoid."
It's not you being paranoid. Nor could you do much more, from what you have written you are showing indredible understanding, you have obviously made a huge effort to help your man. The problem is not yours, it's his. The behavior you describe sounds fairly typical of an alcoholic who can talk the talk but not walk the walk. That is to say one who goes to meetings and says all the right things, but hasn't caught on to the need to live the steps.
It won't help him if you accept this behaviour. His disease is no excuse for treating you badly. If you have the chance to talk to his sponsor, let him know what is happening and he may be able to help your BF see the error of his ways. Otherwise, Alanon might be good for you but whatever happens you need to take care of yourself. The status quo isn't an option.
You mention being in an abusive relationship before. This is not my area of expertise, but might the current situation be a pattern for you? Perhaps someone elso on this site can suggest some avenues for you to explore in this regard.
Whatever happens it sounds like your BF is damn lucky to have you and if he blows it he only has himself to blame. BTW I got sober at 22 so age is not the issue here.
God Bless,
Mike H.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Monday 15th of August 2011 12:09:55 AM
Welcome to "MIP". Your friend seems to be riding a roller coaster of emotions and "alcoholic abstinence" can be fueling that uneasiness. I ditto the response from others about Al-Anon. You might see your problems from an entirely different angle if you view it from another persons perspective. A "personal" perspective that is, and not just your own. Al-Anon, is a program that compliments other forms of traditional therapy and helps support the needs of both friends and families alike. So, I suggest you start there. There are other support networks including this forum that can help you as well. We'll be here to support you too, when need be. We promise...
Oh...one last thing. I hope your friend can finally find a good sober network and start enjoying all the benefits of this wonderful sober life, here and now. The deadly emotions that he is currently suffering through can be reversed, but only if he's willing to take action now. I hope he eventual does, for both your sakes. We will continue to pray on his behalf, with the hopes that he can finally find a solution that will benefit him long term. I hope that he's finally able to not only enjoy the fruits of this wonderful sober life, but to do so for many years to come.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Monday 15th of August 2011 03:16:50 AM
Thank you so much Mike and Mr David!
Unfortunately I don't know who his sponsor is to talk to. I feel bad I've probably painted him in a really bad light! I should point out he always knows hes in the wrong and apologizes for it - blames the 'ism' which I appreciate but I don't see why it happens again and again. I do always stand up for myself though. He hasn't been mean in a while, he phones everyday and explains to me about how he's feeling, what he's doing about it. It's just kinda a bummer that I can't see him until he is better.
I sent him a text with a nice spiritual guidance-style quote, which he loved, he loves all that, so I'm thinking of sending him one or two of them a day. And your words are priceless, about the need to live the steps etc, which I was thinking of saying to him but part of me worries that because I'm not on the same boat that he will think I'm being patronising?
"You mention being in an abusive relationship before. This is not my area of expertise, but might the current situation be a pattern for you? " - I seem to be attracted to trouble to be honest! Though it's never obvious at the time. When I met him we drank socially, a small group of us at college. You could see the difference between him and the regular drinkers. A previous relationship was abusive, emotionally speaking, though he didn't have a drinking problem he just turned out to be a baddie. I dont think I actually stayed long enough to be seriously affected but it certainly has made me more aware of things happening.
"Whatever happens it sounds like your BF is damn lucky to have you and if he blows it he only has himself to blame. BTW I got sober at 22 so age is not the issue here." - thank you! Glad to hear about your early recovery. God bless you.
"Welcome to "MIP". Your friend seems to be riding a roller coaster of emotions and "alcoholic abstinence" can be fueling that uneasiness. I ditto the response from others about Al-Anon. You might see your problems from an entirely different angle if you view it from another persons perspective. A "personal" perspective that is, not just your own. Al-Anon, is a program that compliments other forms of traditional therapy and helps support the needs of both friends and families alike. So, I suggest you start there. There are other support networks including this forum that can help you as well. We'll be here to support you too, when need be. We promise..." - thanks very much! I've joined the Al-Anon forum too and everyone on there, and here, are so lovely. I will have to look into getting to meetings myself in the local area, as I'm worried that this is starting to affect me... Do you think I would also benefit from attending open AA meetings?
I hope he is better soon too. I feel terrible for him as he says he's in a very bad place at yhe moment, after a couple of months of not getting to enough meetings and r.e. his previous job, he was working with people he did not like and had to put on a false act when working with them, but carrying resentment for various reasons toward them, it was draining. He says it will just take a bit of time. He is very willing to take action and is surrounding himself with fellow RA's.
Ps what does ODAAT mean?
ODAAT = one day at a time. We alcs can waste an awful lot of energy reliving yesterday and worrying about tomorrow that we forget about what really counts - today! Alanon would be a great idea for you. Like AA it's somehting you do for your own well being, not anyone elses. Not a bad idea to attend one or two open AA meetings either. Maybe yr BF would take you. My partner sometimes comes with me and quite enjoys the meetings. Perhaps you might get to meet the elusive sponsor that way? I remember in my early recovery I was always thrilled when one of my family or friends came to a meeting with me. I don't imagine it did them much good but it was really nice for me that they cared enough to try and understand what I was trying to do. MikeH.
You sound like an amazing young woman. It sounds like you really care about your BF, hopefully he realizes that. Having alcoholism doesn't give us cart blanche to be "so... difficult - being really picky with insignificant things, resent people for very small things, very sensitive, he gets irritable, restless, stressed. He is mean to me and tries to push me away" Not drinking just means not drinking, it doesn't mean we are actually working the program of AA. If you google AA Big Book online, you can read the book that is the AA program as it is supposed to be worked. On page 15, it says something about a new design for living. That is what an AA program can be. AA is not just about not drinking. It is about learning a new way to live, a better way, without drinking. One gentleman in my home group got sober at 22yrs old also. He just celebrated 39 years of recovery. He says he does it one day at a time. Open AA mtgs are also a place you can learn more. I hope my spouse can get to the point where he will attend one with me. I ask him, but he's not there yet. So I go without him and keep asking, and maybe one day he will say yes. I love your avatar, great pic. Peace
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I asked God for all things that I may enjoy life. He gave me life so that I may enjoy all things.
Not to dampen your spirits....but if being with him is so challenging and difficult, why do you care so much? Why are you still even considering him to be a serious life partner after you haven't even seen him for a month? It might not be abusive but it's definitely not a nurturing, supportive, positive, and egalitarian relationship. I'm telling you this because I have a habit of trying to change others to suit my expectations. I have done this in all relationships and this explains why I have 4 exes now. Save yourself the trouble and find someone that loves you and where the relationship just flows naturally. It's not supposed to be so hard.
I do think Alanon is worth investigating to help you learn to focus on you and to stop hyperfocusing in on the sickness of others and trying to fix them.
Truly in support,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks for such a forthright post of honesty and care. Many non alcoholics won't go to such lengths to grasp what the heck is going on, instead they tend to shut down emotionally and stop being available and present in the relationship, long before it is over.
I don't know what the answer is. I have a few thoughts though. 1.) The disease of alcoholism, (treated or untreated) does not give anyone an excusable right or viable justification to be inconsiderate, uncaring, unfair, abusive, ect,ect, .... unacceptable behavior and attitudes are unacceptable behaviors and attitudes. No one has to tolerate it more from one population of people than another. No matter what the source, the reasons are not justified unless YOU accept them. 2.) Many people, both those who are alcoholic and those who are not alcoholic, suffer from "Dis-ease". Meaning they have a problem being comfortable within themselves and/or within the frame work of certain environmental/relational circumstances. Until this is addressed, which usually doesn't happen until the person "bottoms out" mentally, emotionally and/or spiritually and the vacancy inside them becomes unbarable, and no longer tolerable to themselves, the change that is needed or desired doesn't come forth. Unfortunately, this rearly happens prior to those around them having to bail out for their own peace, serenity and ease. It is at this point that the person has no outside source to aim their dis-ease at, and can't continue to subject themselves to what they have subjected others to.
I too would strongly suggest you go to the Al-Anon portion of this site, they are a absolutely great group of people. Both the message board and the chat room is very active and they have online meetings every morning at 9am and at 9pm each night. (Eastern time)
I hope all works out well for you and yours on this journey of recovery.
Thank you everybody, Mike, nezyb, Philip, John, Mark, for all of your kind words
"Not to dampen your spirits....but if being with him is so challenging and difficult, why do you care so much?"
I feel bad I've probably made him out to be a nightmare, he's not difficult to be with, and is a great and loving person - I was just meaning when he misses out on his meetings he can become difficult, in that he becomes stressed, restless, can say harsh things, elements that can be difficult for me to deal with as I'm pretty powerless. We met through college but our hometowns are about an hours drive apart. But I'm there because I love and care for him a great deal and definitely want to stand by him as this seems to be just a slip! When he gets to his meetings he's amazing; romantic, kind, caring and loving. Just this other side emerges when he hasn't been to meetings. It's interesting how vital they are to his overall well-being. Though certainly if things don't change I won't be sticking around. But I ought to give it a chance. And try out a couple of meetings. Hope this makes sense!
