Im writing this out so maybe I will see what I need to see. To start with I am 3 1/2 years sober almost to the day. My life has changed very much for the better. I now have joy in my life thanks to AA and my higher power. I am excited that I continue to grow. Now heres what has upset me......I was on vacation in Lake Tahoe at a running camp with my boyfriend. We have been together for 6 years and he too quit drinking at the same time I did. So that is good. He is an ultra marathon runner and did a race out there. I run half marathons......here where the haunting came in. There is another woman out there who is an accomplished trail runner. She is very nice. She has done nothing wrong. She pays alot of attention to my boyfriend, but its about running. The thing that happened is my marriage broke down because my husband was s..rewing my best friend...It took my a couple of years to catch on because I either didnt want to see it or I was too trusting.....or I was crazy like my ex told me I was. Nothing inappropriate happened between my boyfriend and this woman. Just the way she seemed so interested in him, and he was eating it up...Just brought on past memories of the madness. I truly felt crazy when it happened in the past and the familar setting took me back. The past experience hit me like a ton of bricks. I couldnt talk to him about it because the pain was to great and I knew i was being unreasonable. He kept wanting me to tell him what was wrong, (i was preoccupied and not myself for a day or two) But I felt that I just needed to work my program and figure it out. I truly forgot how much all that hurt. Sounds to me like I might need another 4th step. I hate that i couldnt talk to him about it but sometimes I need to have my own thoughts and feelings. Not sure if this make sence. Just was hard to handle. Ha, thought I got alot of that behind me. Did I think about drinking......NOT AT ALL....so that is good. Just hate when my program is off kilter. Anyone who has a simular story or advise feel free..... Thanks for letting me rant and I apoligize if this makes no sence....... Peace!
-- Edited by SUSIE on Wednesday 27th of July 2011 01:44:19 PM
Thanks for your rant. Oh...by the way, there's nothing you need to apologize for. Your post makes perfect sense to me.
I felt similar feelings 10 years ago, when I uncovered a lot of unresolved anger under a sea of alcohol. That's when I did my fourth step. The reason behind my emotional instability was fueled more by resentment than anything else. A resentment I had since my teenage years. The resentment in question was directed at my father and what he put me through. I clung on to that resentment for so long that it eventually fueled my alcoholism. Something, we know all about. I had to come to terms with that incident and the role I played, before I was able to move on from there.
All my relationships continued to suffer, because I had lost all respect for anyone who resembled my father. The cause of my future worries were directly related to my past resentment and that's what I need to realize most of all. I had to finally realize this; "I did nothing wrong". Basically, I had to let go and let God instead. When I did, something amazing happened. I "felt forgiven myself". By forgiving my father indirectly, the healing in my life began. I forgave him for one reason and one reason only. To move on from there. I needed to move on with my life, regardless. The only obstacle in my way was my "not so" guilty pleasures that wreaked havoc on my emotions. The guilt and shame caused by that relationship had more of a profound effect on my life than anyone else. And that's what needed to be resolved more than anything. I had to come to terms with that part of my life before all else and forgiveness is where it all started for me. I hope it can be for others as well. I pray...
I hope anyone who is in a similar scenario can finally move past the problem by realizing they "did nothing wrong" as well. I hope they start living life as it is meant to be, far beyond the doubt that tries to sabotage our mind. I hope people are finally able to clear that clutter from their past and start living life "guilt free" for many years to come. Thanks be to God...
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Friday 29th of July 2011 01:41:46 AM
Oh My Gosh Mr. Davidl, thank you. I am not alone. Thank you for taking the time to explain and it made perfect sence. I have let the past again emerge into my present life and it is affecting my present relationship. What my ex did has haunted me for years and I have been pretty good and playing the "im ok, im over it, Im strong" bit till it came back and hit me in the gut. I think if I address it once again with an open mind I just might be able to put it to rest. Thanks again and have a blessed day!!!
I call that being "triggered" by an event, almost post traumatic stress disorder
fourth steps help, this is what we mean by "more will be revealed"
learning to trust your heart/gut not your head helps, learning to trust yourself/ your gut/ your intuition, intuition becomes a working part of our day, so either this past event threw your intuition off or your intuition is trying to tell you something, I found clearing the detritus from the past better helped me be real/objective about today
talking to others and seeking outside help helped me
That's a tough one because sometimes where there is smoke, there is fire, and why it is so destructive (for me) to be around people who lie/whose words don't match their actions ie saying "I love you" when their actions don't match, the "double bind, (look it up) gaslighting (look it up, it's also pretty important), emotional abandonment, low grade emotional abuse, passive aggressive "punishment" etc it "triggers" my own feelings of abandonment and hurt, also when I try to communicate about it with them of course they say "No No it's all in your head" and then I have a "disconnect" between my head and my heart, which leads to insanity, so ultimately the trick is to learn what is my head, and what isn't
SUSIE wrote:
She has done nothing wrong.
except
She pays alot of attention to my boyfriend,
which wouldn't be a problem but:
he was eating it up
past event leading to "The Trigger"
The thing that happened is my marriage broke down because my husband was s..rewing my best friend...It took my a couple of years to catch on because I either didnt want to see it or I was too trusting.....
the following is "gaslighting"
or I was crazy like my ex told me I was.
Read the following carefully as if it was written by someone else:
Nothing inappropriate happened between my boyfriend and this woman. Just the way she seemed so interested in him, and he was eating it up...
her paying all that attention and him "eating it up" -is- innapropriate
this is what I mean by learning to trust our instincts, we have the "double bind", triggers from past events, and him lieing to you on an emotional level ie "eating it up", the trick is to learn to be comfortable enough in ourselves and our relationships to be open, honest and comfortable ie, whether it be learning to be OK to allow him outside female validation...so much to explain
Ultimately I needed outside help, CODA and therapy, and it ultimately brought me back to my center which was "trust my intuition", A therapist told me once I didn't have to "learn" to trust my girlfriend, especially since the one thing she did that was consistent was lie, both by word and by deed, So I needed to learn to trust myself, and not try to force myself to trust when none was deserved (ie i had a GF and some family members who lied ALL the time), it made ME crazy
in another example I had a GF who was worried about ME all the time, we went to therapy and we both made changes, I throttled back my energy around women, and she learned to trust herself and her instincts, then on the odd occasion I -did- get female "energy" coming at me, two things happened, I shut it down when I realized what was going on, and she had learned to be comfortable with herself and our relationship to trust it wouldn't go anywhere, but dollars to donuts if I sat around and "ate the s*** up" beyond a certain point, it would be pointed out to me" just pointed out, "hey, what you are doing is inappropriate and disrespectful to me"
So...I got nothing except bring that **** to people with experience, and people you trust, ie sponsor/therapist and walk through it with them, put a second set of eyes on it, and I had to learn to communicate my discomfort to my partner
-- Edited by LinBaba on Thursday 28th of July 2011 06:56:42 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Hi Suzie, It sounds like you might be blaming yourself for what your x did. He acted badly, and was dishonest. He didn't know how to have a healthy relationship, shouldn't have been married, and dozens of other conclusions could be drawn about why He did what HE did. You picked the wrong one, that's about it. Own your own stuff and let the rest go. I would say that the gushing over a married man is inappropriate, in my opinion, especially when the person's spouse is present. If some woman was acting that way towards me (18 year relationship 14 years married) I'd excuse myself and walk away, especially if my wife were present. That kind of stuff makes me feel very uncomfortable. These are boundary issues. If it were me, I'd have a calm discussion with my spouse about how it made me feel.
Hi Suzie, It sounds like you might be blaming yourself for what your x did. He acted badly, and was dishonest. He didn't know how to have a healthy relationship, shouldn't have been married, and dozens of other conclusions could be drawn about why He did what HE did. You picked the wrong one, that's about it. Own your own stuff and let the rest go.
I would say that the gushing over a married man is inappropriate, in my opinion, especially when the person's spouse is present. If some woman was acting that way towards me (18 year relationship 14 years married) I'd excuse myself and walk away, especially if my wife were present. That kind of stuff makes me feel very uncomfortable. These are boundary issues. If it were me, I'd have a calm discussion with my spouse about how it made me feel.
Bingo, exactly what I was trying to say, two issues, one that's past (affecting today) and one today - the whole "gushing" thing and the double bind you found yourself in ie "I love you" but am going to recieve my love and validation from this woman over here
that would be a "no no" in my book, trick is communicating that stuff and having a partner mature enough to "own" his own behavior, and make "amends" ie changes
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
You guys are spot on....I cant thank you enough for your input. I needed a mans input and got a few. I will get it out and tell my boyfriend what has made me uncomfortable. I do trust him but I guess I got a resentment. I could not believe the flashback I got on the whole deal. I just thought I could work it out in my head ( dangerouse place that it is). I am a people pleaser and all that does is piss me off in the long run. I didnt want to talk about it at first due to the fact I would have started to cry.....Oh what a bad girl that would make me.. I see now how getting it out will help me to move on. I have been holding him hostage and he doesnt even know why. Thank God for the 4th step i guess. Glad to be in the program and continuing to grow. Oh and have I mentioned how wonderfull and smart you men are???? have a blessed day, you have made mine.!
not "this is what -you did-, then it's "on" and there's an argument, he JADE's
you ________
him:
Justify
Argue
Defends
Explains
you try to "prove your point"
and the entire incident gets lost in a morass of argument that ultimately never gets resolved, and you are "the bad guy"
as opposed to:
this is how I felt when -this- happened
you can argue with a lot, but you can't argue with how I feel
period
because those feelings are mine, I own them
how my partner chooses to navigate them is up to them, whether by attacking me, or working with me, or denying and minimizing them, actually gives me a good picture about whether this person deserves to be in my life or not
cuts down on the "discussion", gets the information out there, this is how "I feel" which is the truth, it's NOT -you did- it's -this is how i felt when this occured-, and if done correctly accomplishes one of two things, reconciliation and greater understanding moving forward, or the realization the person you are with possibly has some growing to do emotionally, and may not be quite as good a fit as he once was haha
however I have always had success with a hollow point .45 in the kneecap if the behavior persists, lets see that bitch gush about his running then!!! Don't kneecap her too though, then they's just commiserate together and you'd be the bad guy, him and you have a captive audience and she run away happy to get away alive
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
All my relationships continue to suffer, because I had lost all respect for anyone who resembled my father.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Thursday 28th of July 2011 03:54:00 AM
I've had this happen a lot - especially when it comes to appearance, mannerisms, etc. I've run into several guys in AA that reminded me of my father including one that suffered the same fate. One I've known for a long time and he still reminds me of my dad (in a good way), although I can't really put my finger on why.
lol.....my ex husband knows how lucky he is that he came out of it alive!!!! I was a crazy alcoholic who was constantly told by another alcohlic (my ex) how crazy i was. Then I felt ...OK I will show you crazy.....crazy huh. I laugh but its not funny. Since the haunting or flashback I truly see how serious the abuse was and thanks to my friends here know that its not my fault. Thank you for showing me how to handle this. I am confident about our conversation.
Best to forgive the creep (x) chock it up to "twisted human nature" and leave those memories alone till they fade to grey. When we get out those old resentments and play with them, they stay fresh in our minds. Then by making some resemblance to a more current event, we bond the two together in in synapses of our memory. This make the baggage grow, instead letting go of it we cultivate, fertilize it, and it grows. Going back and making peace with the past (after recognizing our feelings), accept it, minimizing the event, forgive the others, forgive ourselves, find the lesson, find the fortunate part, experience the gratitude for that, find some humor in it, minimize some more then put it away for good. Make an agreement with self not to talk about anymore.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 28th of July 2011 10:02:36 AM
Hey Susie,let me just tell you I have been married 3 times(must be something up with that huh)Anyway even now after 27 years of marriage and 3 years before we were married,I still found myself at one point getting jealous,angry etc with my wife and my and her boss.Thinking something was going on(had to look deep inside me) The difference for me now is ,I am able to immediately voice what Im feeling and be honest with what Im feeling,where as I never could before..'RELATIONSHIPS CAN BE TERRIBLY PAINFUL AREAS" but trust ,honesty and comunication is the only thing that got me to where I am now.Am i NO LONGER a member of the "I get green family",no .but I CERTAINLY KNOW A bETTER WAY TO HANDLE IT RATHER THAN WORK IT OUT IN THE UNIVERSE BETWEEN MY EARS...tHANKS FOR SHARING ,GOOD JOB RUNNING,IM BACK ON ROADS AGAIN MYSELF,LIKE TO QUALIFY ONE MORE TIME FOR bOSTON.At 65 ,the time now i believe is 4:10.....not near that .....yet!
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
You will get there mike...Boston awaits... As to the reason for my feelings I think I am getting the answers. My boyfriend has kept telling me that I am not communicating like I normally do and it has been really making him a bit crazy. I see my part. Maybe Im jealous of this girl, but I think that im jealous of all the attention he gets and sorta how he handles it. I was not the center of attention wow!!! So some of it comes from that. Felt like I wanted to knock him down a peg or two. Aside from that, the situation just had alot of the same tones from when my ex and my ex best friend messed around on me. It all came back with all the feelings of rejection, hurt, and no self worth. So tonite I will tell my boyfrined how I feel and put it behind me. I dont like feeling like this. I know after hearing from all of you know what to say and have organized how I feel and why. whew alot of work . I also went to a meeting this afternoon and out to lunch with AA girlfriends and that helped alot too. Thanks all!!!
Aloha Susie...it appears that some stuff that had a cover over it for a while had the veil pulled back and revealed that it had only been laid to rest rather than let die. Been there and done that...never really forgave it (the opposite of resentment) and then let it go or her/them for that matter. Just put it aside in my denial box.
I've done forth steps on my emotions...My greatest emotional character defect was fear and I was beyond glad to discover that so that I could then go on to discover the opposite of fear and practice that instead. This is a program of recovery.
I always hesitate to discuss reactions from the past with people in the present who might have reminded me of the past because it is mostly about my fear and not about what anybody is doing now. I can make the "False Evidence Appearing Real" (F E A R) in my head a great living insanity given just a bit of a chance. I will talk it out with my sponsor or other trust fellows in the program. The chances are that they will not take it personally where my spouse (if she is the target) will.
I remember for the first 5 or so years of my present marriage where my spouse would come at me with her thoughts and suspicions and dreams about "me" participating in infidelity (against her...personal) with whomever in the program (women in common intrest and common settings) and she would rage insanely.
How I handled it? I told her she should have never ended her counseling sessions before and after we married and that she could not make me pay for mistakes of her past either as a consequence of her or her exhusbands choices. It was higher education for her and the longer she continued to fall into it the less I participated in the solution for her. False Evidence Appearing Real most often has me investigating myself first rather than anything or anyone else and then just reacting and "jumping to conclusions".
Be interesting finding out what that 4th comes out to. In support ((((hugs))))
Thanks Jerry....As the day goes on I am seeing the flashback for what it is.....just like you said...Fear. It hit me hard. I am not blaming the boyfriend. I had to process it and see it for what it was. I am going to explain what happened and why. I see know that this issue has held me back from alot of living. I have been a afraid of true commitment. I hold back alot of my feelings for a person due to my past and that isnt right. I deserver to love and be loved throughly. From some of the comments today it has made me see that I have buried these feeling and have not been honest with myself or others that I have a relationship with. Im the first to point out thier faults and insecurities and have not really dealt whole heartedly with my own. My defects of character are blazing thier ugly head! I see them! Now to let it go and let God guide me to the serenity I know can come from doing the steps and following the program. thanks for taking the time to help me. :)
such a huge discovery huh? You don't only deserve that you also have the innate ability to realize it and in that is the practice...practice...practice. Let go of the fear and the love will arrive. Thanks for the the feedback (((hugs)))
