At the age of 19 I got into some fairly minor legal trouble due to my use of chemicals. I was in a bad spot in my life, had moved to a place where I had no real friends, and was involved in a family life that could only be described as insane. During this time I used chemicals to deal with the things I was going through and to help fit in. I definitely would not categorize my behavior at the time as "normal" but I never had any major consequences or felt like I absolutely could not stop my behavior.
In any case, I went to rehab at age 19 and have spent the past 11 years in sobriety. My sobriety has been good. I have done all that was suggested by counselors, sponsors, and friends. During this time I completed college, got a career, and got married. I have been very happy and live a blessed life. However, I have always had doubts as to whether or not I truly suffer from alcoholism or drug addiction. I've always felt a bit less than honest when identifying myself as such at a meeting or when talking about the 1st step. In the past couple of years this sense of dishonesty/uncertainty has lead me to feel like I don't belong in AA or that I can't wholly relate to what others are sharing in meetings. I've never had a blackout from drinking too much, never had a drink at an inappropriate time (although I would stay up really late partying in college), never had withdrawals, and never needed a drink to get me through the day.
So, after a couple of years of talking with my spouse and some close friends, I decided to pull the trigger and try drinking. I am keeping an open mind to the experience. I'm not saying I am an alcoholic or am not an alcoholic. I am saying, "I don't know and want to figure it out." If I am an alcoholic then I feel like I will be able to fully commit to AA. If I'm not, then I don't need to go to AA. In the past week my spouse and I have been gone out drinking three times. I have been able to have a couple of beers on each occasion and feel like I've had enough for the night. I've been able to go home where there is alcohol in the fridge and not tear into like a spree that would be detailed in the Big Book.
I've felt like the experiment has been going well. However, the thing I have been noticing is that for 1-2 days after drinking I have a rapid heart rate, I have trouble focusing, have some anxiety, and just feel "off". I'm wondering if this is anxiety caused by such a radical shift in my lifestyle and I'm hyper sensitive about it. Or, if this is the physical allergy we talk about in AA. Or, if these are some kind of withdrawal symptoms? Caffeine definitely seems to enhance these feelings and I am giving up coffee for the short term until I can figure it out. I will say that while I have had thoughts about when I am going to drink next (it's new and exciting to me), I'm not finding that my every thought is consumed by getting the next drink. Anyhow, wanting to draw on the experience of those who have relapsed and ask what they felt after taking that first drink.
Thanks for your replies. Please know that I take the relapse very seriously and have only taken these measures because I believe it's the only way to truly understand myself in this program.
Aloha Neekolas...Thanks soooo much for the share. I've been clean and sober since 1979 and came into program with doubts and justifications as to why I was "different" than them. At 16 years sober I almost left the program while holding my just received 16 year recovery chip. "I am cured my head told me and don't belong here any more". I was facing the door and two immediate events took place which had me take my seat again on top of all of the experiences I had up until that time. I was looking at the differences rather than the similarities as I was originally taught when I came thru the doors via the Al-Anon program...see it was always her or their problem...not mine. I didn't take an assessment until I was 9 years clean of alcohol or any other drug and it was in that assessment that I removed myself from denial "almost" completely. After the 16 year chip I started to learn and experience even more "alcoholic" events in my life including increased compulsion to drink...you have just experienced it...the just "two" compulsions...you have just experienced that also...drinking dreams or ideation and day dreaming in the liquor section of the store with memories of the past...that is all a part of relapse which comes before the actual drink for me. I am college educated on alcohol and drug addiction and here is one of the biggee realities from that part of my journey in recovery. Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical that affects every part of the body it comes into contact with...every part and I am compulsed to think about it, and drink about it. At that point is it I that am running my life or is it alcohol that is running my life. Honestly...alcohol runs my life because I won't live my life without it. Amazing!! I'm addicted to a chemical that has absolutely no value in my life and that controls me even while I am sharing this with you or maybe because I am sharing this with you.
Alcoholism the belief and practice that alcohol is a prime function for my life inspite of existing evidence. Everytime I sit in an AA meeting I am aware that I am under the influence.
Your share is soooo me and I am very grateful for it. This is why I hang with the relapsers. Sooo Thinking does come before the drinking...Gotta remember that and what my early sponsors taught me...."Don't think and Don't Drink"...Mahalo from the Pacific. (((hugs)))
Why drink? Because I'm stuck in limbo between not going to meetings because I'm not sure I'm an alcoholic and wanting to experience what it is like to have a "normal" social life as an adult. Being that I got sober at the age of 19 I've never really had the chance to attempt drinking like an adult. Part of me feels like I'm a much different person now then I was when I was 19.
If you have been to AA you (hopefully) are familiar with Chapter 3 of the Big Book. And you know where to go if your experiment fails to prove to you that you do not have a substance use disorder. Even during long periods of sobriety/remission, for alcoholics, the disease is still perking along in the brain/body, just waiting. You'll know.
Hmmm... Going out and having fun without alcohol is perfectly "normal" for large segments of society. Many, many people just have no desire to drink at all, and they still have fun. The fact that you associate drinking with normalcy is slightly troubling to me.
Well, this experiment will certainly let you know if you're an alcoholic or not. I can't really encourage you in this, but we can't stop you either. FYI, from stories I've heard, it's pretty common for alcoholics to be able to go out and drink in a controlled way half a dozen times or so before their intake spikes and the disease kicks in full force. They are then usually shocked at how fast everything goes down hill. One other observation: I've never, ever heard anyone in person nor on any internet forum who said they drank problematically, then quit, and then managed to return to controlled drinking. You may be the first, but you may want to ask if you really want to take that big a gamble. OTOH, there are MANY stories of people who attempted this and then wound up worse than before.
Let us know how it goes.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
It's probably better to fiqure it out now, while you're 30, then 20 years from now. Best of luck, don't wait to lonq if it qet out of hand. We'll leave the liqht on for you.
Thanks for all your replies and support. I do have a strong AA support group and have somewhere to go if things go poorly. I know there is the potential for the disease to be active and growing while in abstinence. One of the big motivators for me to figure this out is that my wife and I will be thinking about having kids in the next couple of years and I would never want to experiment with something I consider so dangerous when I have children.
Yes. You know where to go if things get awry. I think you have some anxiety due to having so much recovery in you. It probably spoiled your drinking and you are just gonna find out that drinking isn't all that great anyhow.
The only glaring misconception I saw in your writing was that you "want to have a normal social life" as an adult and think drinking is a part of that. Normal people don't drink during the week. Not even 3 drinks. Most non-alcoholics don't even drink at all or have 1 drink with dinner or 3 on the weekend at a club or something. As an alcoholic, I labored under the delusion that normal people drank and got drunk a lot but just didn't have all the problems I did and could stop at 5 or 6 where as I would drink til I passed out all the time.
So....you are treading on some dangerous ground to be 30 years old and going out for drinks several times a week. Any more than a few and that is alcohol abuse. Any more than that and you have your answer. Back to AA.
The other issue to consider is that AA is not all about drinking and what did you gain spiritually? What did you like about the sober you? Alcohol will lie to you and make you think you are giving up a lot to be sober when actually you are giving up a lot just to drink.
I go out. Go to plenty of parties, social functions and also bars (wouldn't recommend that one for anyone new and I avoided bars for almost 2 years)...I just don't drink. I don't feel like I am missing a damn thing. In fact, I marvel at people acting how I used to and am so grateful to not have that compulsion to be intoxicated and act like a fool. Just my experience. I have a very full social life and am still sober. It is not an "either/or" thing.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks for the thoughtful response. It's impossible to say what is "normal". I think there is an enormous scale from people who have no drinks a week to people that go out several times a week for drinks to people that could basically qualify as alcoholics.This is certainly something I am struggling with, ie what exactly do the drinking habits of a normal person look like? The only experience I have is high school and college. And well, I would have to say is that I was your basic, immature college kid. So far I've decided it's best not to drink at home. There is something too comfortable about that at this point. My wife will have a glass of wine or a beer and I'll opt for water.
I don't "need" alcohol to have fun. I've had an amazingly fun and full time in sobriety. If things go bad and I realize I have made a big mistake, I won't have any issue with going back to AA (although I know it will be tough for me to face everyone). I basically feel like there is a big unanswered question there for me and I'm exploring it. I'm cautious, nervous, and realize this whole thing would fall under the category of "playing with fire". I'm praying for guidance and to be shown the answer, either way.
In other news, my nerves seemed to have settled and I'm feeling ok. I'm still trying to figure out if what I was experiencing was sheer anxiety or the physical allergy described in the book. However, my impression of the allergy is that it leads to an insatiable desire to drink. I feel more like my heart is gonna pop. :)
All I can say is that the allergy for me was very clear in terms of just never feeling like I could get enough. I tried stopping at 2 or 3 drinks and succeeded only a few times, but I would feel so angry and empty when I couldn't drink any more. Enough was never enough. I was never sated and always wanted to be more drunk.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Our book is very clear about what to do when you are unsure if you are an alcoholic or not
Go drink
try to drink and stop abruptly, try it more then once, it will be worth a good case of the jitters to get a good knowledge of your condition
I drank at 30 after some years of sobriety, a number of us "went out" to see if we were alcoholics, it took me about a year before I was "full speed" again, and it was starange, because my "full speed" was a lot more moderate then it had been in the past, it's like that underlying death wish and self loathing had been removed by the steps
I came back after a few years, that was...IDK...15 years ago or something, late 90's I think, the two guys who "went out" at the same time, I'd say...maybe are or aren't alcoholics, they are certainly both "heavy drinkers", you know you hear these stories about "no one who ever goes out is able to moderate their drinking" and that is patent bullshit, "they" say, "everyone who comes back had it fail", well no shit Sherlock, that's why they came back
As someone with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with drinking at 30 after a long period of sobriety the only thing I would say is watch out for the "frog in the boiling water" syndrome, the movable "yet", the elastic "this line I will never cross" slowly changing, a few years of drinking and I found my boundaries moving until my life was becoming unbearable again.
The truth of the matter is when I finally came back to AA I was not even drinking very often any more, maybe once or twice a month, my liver had gone belly so I was getting sick whenever I drank, but I am an alcoholic, so I either need a program or a drink to treat my alcoholism
Good luck whatever happens, one thing I did was maintain my friendships with the "real friends" I made in AA, some folks got weird I drank but just like when we drink we have "drinking buddies", when we don't drink we have "sober buddies", but for me, I also have "real friends" who have been with me drunk and sober over the decades, I paid attention to what they had to say, not like the AA "I drank the AA Koolaid and you drank alcohol so you are going to hell" stuff I got from from frightened people, but "Dude, you are F'ing up" after I had been drinking a few years
You have been sober, you have the tools, you know where to go, and if you need to go back, do so, when I went back I had a friend take me, it's scary, but yet again I was made to feel welcome
Good luck either way, I wish you a long and happy drinking career, or a long and happy sober one, but if it turns into a long and unhappy drinking career come home to your people, because if it goes bad, we are truly your people, and we don't shoot our wounded
PS Pink makes a good point about watching for the allergy, I was going to mention that and spaced it, every year or so try the "Marty Mann test" 2 drinks a day for ten days, if you are non-alcoholic it's no problem, if you are alcoholic it will be impossible for you to do, you will get drunk 2 or more times, that is a GOOD objective test of alcoholism
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 14th of June 2011 12:33:43 AM
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 14th of June 2011 12:38:00 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Wow...You are cured from what? Obviously not alcoholic amnesia. A drink with dinner here, a beer there...where does it end? Hopefully not the morgue. Good luck though.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Tuesday 14th of June 2011 02:22:58 AM
It's not a game I'd like to play: it seems like you are playing a drinking version of Russian Roulette but possibly with a fully loaded gun. However it's your call to make so I hope everything works out for you.
I am reminded of a previous post by LinBaba which deserves to be requoted "I think it was Clancy that compared drinking to playing Russian Roulette for us, in the early days it was
click click click BLAM click click click
as time went on it was:
click BLAM BLAM click BLAM click click BLAM click
until finally it was
BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM *click*
and we'd go "SEE!!????!??!!??!" and point at the click as why we could keep drinking normally"
The progression of recovery is a continuous uphill journey,without effort we start our slide down that hill again,but the kicker is the progression of the disease is ongoing even during abstinence.There is no "age" limits on this illness, it is our reaction to the drug that makes us who we are not how much or how often we use....I could refund my misery in a moment if I entertained the thought I could pick up again even much after a quarter century!! Homie don't play with this thing!!! Like Dean says "we'll leave the light on..................
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Thanks for the words and the experience. You hit on a ton of major points for me. I guess the take-away is I need to watch for my reaction/what is happening in my life vs. my intake of alcohol. You mention friends in AA/drinking buddies, I know that I will lose some AA friends over this and it's definitely something I'm stressed over. I know it's not a conscious decision for some people but I've lost touch with people who have started drinking simply because our lives go down different paths at that point. On the other hand, I know I have friends who will be there no matter what.
To others, I'm aware of the progressive nature of the disease. I believe, mistakenly or not, that I will have sense to recognize if things have taken a turn from experimentation to full-blown alcoholic reality. At least, I hope so. I can't predict the future, obviously.
no worries, it is what it is, many of us who get/got sober young gotta go peek after a decade or so, some of us dont need to come back, some of us need to and do make it back, some of us need to and dont make it back, but if there is one thing I learned, OK, two things, one, an alcoholics gonna do what hes gonna do, and a spirit of belligerent intolerance kills alcoholics, we arent witch burners, i seen a bunch of AAers one night when i was out lit up like a Xmas tree, wacked on X, zipperfaced on blow, and blowing about a 3.5 with a couple of people and we were all sticky with some kama sutra oil or someshit and ill never forget big head doug calling me over, giving me a hug and telling me he loved me because i was me, not because i used to be sober, and to never hide from "us" that single act saved my life and made it OK to go back to AA when it was time and I passed that on to countless others, many of whom are sober today. as far as friends go nearly all mine are sober and we stayed friends when i drank, i used to drink half a beer with dinner and leave the rest just to piss em off
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I thought I was different when I came into AA, but my 1st & only relapse convinced me that I was an alcoholic. I did not need anybody to tell me that. My own experience & the "Doctor's Opinion" in the AA book convinced me beyond a shadow of doubt that I definitely was an alcoholic. I also learned that if I did not choose recovery as quick as possible, then I will progress on to a point where recovery will be impossible. The AA book says that there are those who do not recover, and I most certainly did not want to end up in that category. That was some 22years ago.
You are probably experiencing anxiety from many things after being sober for so long.
Something made you quit at the ripe young age of 19. Revisit that and analyze if you were on a spiral of dependency.
Changing lifestyles is stressful, like you mentioned, you'll certainly get some concern from AA friends, probably lose some. Normal people do drink in social situations, it would nice to be carefree and just go with the flow without any ramifications. I know that will never work for me.
I quit drugs(chemicals) at an early age due to a traumatic experience with them and never went back, I just (slowly) transitioned to alcohol as my drug of choice.
From your read, you may be one of those individuals that it will work for.
The experiment continues. I have continued the path of having 2-3 drinks 1-3 times a week and it has been going well. I am still finding that the a day or two after drinking I feel foggy headed, slightly nauseous, can have elevated pulse, etc. I still haven't decided whether this is a result of anxiety or if I am experiencing the physical allergy of alcoholism. Time will tell, I suppose. I feel that if I continue to have these symptoms I will probably just stop drinking. Being able to drink is not worth feeling great all the time and having mental clarity, IMO.
Well neekolas, let's just hope that it isn't the physical allergy. I really hope that you're not an alcoholic.
Me, I am, and I'm going to keep working this 12 step program ODAAT. I gotta tell you, today, and perhaps just today, I do not envy you. I couldn't have said that a year so ago.
no worries, it is what it is, many of us who get/got sober young gotta go peek after a decade or so, some of us dont need to come back, some of us need to and do make it back, some of us need to and dont make it back
In my first couple of years sober, this was after I decided I really wanted it, I used to have the occasional wistful thought. I was in my early 30s, and I'd hear people tell their stories and they got sober in their 40s, or 50s... and I'd think "gee, I probably had a few more good years of drinking in me". I never seriously thought about going back out, just that "what if I had waited a couple more years". Well of course I'm playing Nixon's secretary and erasing that part of the tape... those final months of drinking that led me to my first meeting. Yeah, where does that go, if I don't go to AA when I did? I might have never made it.
So many people die from this disease, including at least one good friend who went out after 11 years and never made it back, when I play "what if" brain games with what was my one moment of clarity, my once chance to get sober, I remember what people said, "I know I have another drunk in me, I don't know if I have another recovery in me". I'm now a whole lot older than my early 30s and I get a chuckle out of the idea of "a few more good years of drinking". I drank for 13 years, and while I had some good times early on, nothing about any of those 13 years is memorable enough to where I'd want to do them over.
So I don't know if I would have had another chance had I not gotten sober when I did. That's in the past. I know that now, at the age of 53, there's no "good drinking years" in me... LOL. My dad went through a divorce at 53, and was dead at 57. Gilbey's gin and no food will do that to you. There's my disease, in black and white.
As to meetings, I love meetings. It would really suck not being able to go to them. I really don't care what people think. If you keep doing what you're doing you'll keep getting what ya got.... sobriety, friendship, fellowship, the chance to live a long and decent life, be there for my family - HAVE a family at all. I think I'll keep doing it.
I'm so grateful that you shared your true honest feelings with us. I believe I'm sitting on the fence with AA, right now. I'm 15 yrs sober, started my journey of recovery at a very early age, and feel like I've grown immensly over the past 15 yrs. I still attend AA meetings, not as often as I used to. I haven't drank nor used any other drug. However, I feel myself not as enthused in AA as I used to be. I'm not as dedicated to my Homegroup, I don't have a sponsor anymore, I do very little at the Service level. My heart is not as passionate in AA. The only passion I have in AA, is the newcomer. When I see him/her come into the rooms so broken and humble, just wanting a life back again, only then can I relate and reach out to them. But, overall, I just love my life of 'normalcy'. I can be out at social events and feel completely comfortable with the bottle of water in my hand and be social with others. I laugh, tell jokes and feel like I'm completely myself. When I'm tired, I'm ok with leaving today and not feel like I have to stay for others or to see what may or may not happen. I have felt in the past 5 yrs or so, that I have "recovered". That AA has such a stigma attached to it, that I HAVE to go to meetings. I'm not as passionate in it anymore.
I would really hope that you stay in touch with us and let us know how you are doing.
Thanks for the note. I think it's normal not to feel the passion you once had for AA. I think it's hard to continue taking medicine when it seems that the illness has passed. I don't know what the answer is to longevity in AA but I definitely feel your pain!
As for my situation, I am continuing to drink and explore what it means to no longer be in sobriety. One of my biggest fears going into this was that I would have some of the reactions that I have heard in meetings or read about in the book -- ie, tearing off on a spree and waking up in another state, having engaged in raucous debauchery. That hasn't happened for me. I've been able to go out and drink in a social manner and it's been good. I've had some nights where I've gone beyond "just a couple of drinks" when going out with friends for birthdays, etc.
Initially I was having some strong physical reactions for days after drinking but those have reduced greatly. However, they are not totally gone. I'm not sure what it's about but I continue to monitor it. Overall, I would say the most negative aspect of this whole thing has been the paranoia and self-observation that has come with taking the plunge. I'm keeping a watchful eye on myself. I continue to take this very seriously and know that alcoholism can be devastating, especially for your loved ones. So, I have really been cautious and haven't made any kind of decisions on whether I'm "normal" or otherwise. I feel like that is something that will have to come with time. I'll update in a couple of months, I suppose.
Hi, I went through a similar experience to you, returning to drinking after 5 years recovery through AA and NA. Before going into it are you still interested because your last post was last year.
