Common newcomer question: How soon should I work the steps?

Old Timer answer: How soon do you want to be better?

We beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start

If drinking is but a symptom and we are meant to get "down to causes and conditions", and ACOA is causes and conditions...it's only to soon to look at this stuff if it's too soon to get better

going through a divorce, kids not talking to you, wife pulling stunts, new rebound relationship in the shitter....

it must seem to every newcomer that more is being asked of him than he can do. Both his pride and his fear beat him back every time he tries to look within himself. Prides says, "You need not pass this way," and Fear says, "You dare not look!" But the testimony of A.A.'s who have really tried a moral inventory is that pride and fear of this sort turn out to be bogeymen, nothing else. Once we have a complete willingness to take inventory, and exert ourselves to do the job thoroughly, a wonderful light falls upon this foggy scene. As we persist, a brand-new kind of confidence is born, and the sense of relief at finally facing ourselves is indescribable

We also clutch at another wonderful excuse for avoiding an inventory. Our present anxieties and trouble, we cry, are caused by the behavior of other people-people who really need a moral inventory. We firmly believe that if only they'd treat us better, we'd be all right. Therefore we think our indignation is justified and reasonable-that our resentments are the "right kind." We aren't the guilty one. They are!" , To see how erratic emotions victimized us often took a long time. We could perceive them quickly in others, but only slowly in ourselves. The moment we ponder a twisted or broken relationship with another person, our emotions go on the defensive. To escape looking at the wrongs we have done another, we resentfully focus on the wrong he has done us. This is especially true if he has, in fact, behaved badly at all. Triumphantly we seize upon his misbehavior as the perfect excuse for minimizing or forgetting our own.

Right here we need to fetch ourselves up sharply. It doesn't make much sense when a real tosspot calls a kettle black. Let's remember that we are not the only ones bedeviled by sick emotions. Moreover, it is usually a fact that our behavior has aggravated the defects of others. We've repeatedly strained the patience of our best friends to a snapping point, and have brought out the very worst in those who didn't think much of us to begin with. In many instances we are really dealing with fellow sufferers, people whose woes we have increased.

I don't know Bill, it seems like God has been sending SOME direction lately, SOME message, maybe this is a good time to find out what it is?

What is God's role? What is ours?

There's a story of a man who was at his house when heavy rains poured down, the river crested, and the town flooded. As he stood on his front porch, the neighborhood completely under water, two men came by in a rowboat. "Can we take you to safety?" one called out.

The man shook his head. "No, thank you. I have faith in the Lord and He will save me."

A little later, the waters had risen and the man was on the roof of his porch when several folks happened along in a motorboat. "Say, there, would you like to come with us?" one of them called.

"No, thank you," the man replied. "I have faith in the Lord, and He will save me."

The waters continued to rise with alarming speed, and the man soon found himself on the roof of his house. A helicopter came by and hovered overhead as the pilot broadcasted, "Let me drop a line and get you out of there."

"No, thank you," the man called back. "I have faith in the Lord, and He will save me."

The man perished in the flood and went to Heaven, where he was met at the Pearly Gates by Saint Peter. Extremely saddened and upset, the man requested to talk to God. His request was granted.

"Heavenly Father," the man cried, "I had faith in you to save me from the flood, and you didn't come through for me!"

Astonished, God replied, "What are you talking about? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"

Thanks...Bill for the topic.

I know people who have recovered using both methods. I guess the pendulum swings both ways, so to say, leading us to wonder who really needs to recover and from what. I know people who went to ACOA for family reasons and discovered that they were alcoholics too and sobered up in AA as a result. The process of recovering has so many variables involved and can cross so many paths, not just ones in either organization. The point I'm trying to make is this: Some of us need added support, to guide us through the tedious process of reclaiming our lives -one day at a time. Any program that can ease our burdens by promoting healing and wholeness by any means possible to as many people that need it, is worth pursuing. Addiction affects everyone, whether you are a child of an alcoholic or not. Recovery programs including ACOA can benefit everyone, as long as we are open to change.

~God bless~

Jamie D wrote:

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It says in the Big Book of AA that a business that takes no inventory usually goes broke. But I don't think any sane business owner when taking his inventory wants to know what went on during the manufacturing process of his products , how exactly were the products made, did the mood the maker of the goods was in when they were made then set the products up to be faulty in this way or that for the duration of their shelf life. My inventory is always of the faults with me now and what to do with them, not a deep understanding of how I got them.

I have forgiven everyone in my past, and I don't live their today. God is in the present moment not the past thats why the book says may you find him >>>>now
I looked here , and I wound up very bitter and unhappy. Staying loving and willing to serve in the now is enough work for this alcoholic.

Jamie :)

The Big Book does say that, it also says "more will be revealed"

easy to judge a man for stumbling while he walks across a bridge I have never crossed, easier yet to give him advice about how to cross that bridge I have never seen

When I came in to AA all over the rooms the old timers would tell me, scratch an alcoholic, find a codependent, and I thought they were idjits and I told them so, I just like to drink and F*** I told them, I don't have any of them thar relationship -issues- or "family of origin" -issues- I just drank too much..they'd smile and say "keep coming back"

I've peeked out a few different 12 step programs now, picked a little up here, a little there, done some therapy, some couples counseling, I by no means am a "self help" junkie but as things came up over the years, as "more was revealed" as it were, I looked in the appropriate venue, read the appropriate books, and it all dovetailed into the steps perfectly, as a matter of fact upon careful re-reading of the BB and 12 and 12, Bill was trying to tell me about what lay ahead, but since I had never crossed that bridge, I didn't even know what I was looking at, easy to stuff in other people, more difficult to see it ourselves

Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom. Aristotle

"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about."
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer

"The most excellent and divine counsel, the best and most profitable advertisement of all others, but the least practised, is to study and learn how to know ourselves. This is the foundation of wisdom and the highway to whatever is good. . . . God, Nature, the wise, the world, preach man, exhort him both by word and deed to the study of himself."
Pierre Charron-

I actually like what my father said about things, learn everything there is to know about something, and then forget it all and do your own thing, i think sobriety is like that, we clear the wreckage of the past in order to live in the now, but the thing is, as we live life we find ourselves repeating lessons, sometimes in new relationships, and we found we built on sand here and there, so we have to tear that section out in order to rebuild a healthy foundation

or in other words

more will be revealed

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation"
- Herbert Spencer

Point taken Andrew. This is your board and if anyone wants to Gawd Daaaammm WaaalL  have any ESH that clashes the board GURUS truth, that truth will be cut and pasted and paraded around in front of the whole board with labels of ignorance and contempt sticky taped to them.

God Bless Andrew the boards Yours Have a good life brother. I'm over this passive agressive attack bullshit.

Hey Bill,

I don't know if this has been said, but Acoa, unlike AA meetinqs, tends to make you feel worse before you feel better. There is a qenuine qrievinq process for various childhood issues. It took awhile for me (years) to identify, qrieve, accept, forqive and learn to be my own lovinq parent. One would want to be "in a qood place" emotionally, spiritually upon the entrance to this process. It amounts to diqqinq up past issues that we're not qoinq to be happy about.

LinBaba wrote:

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"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about."

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer

 

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 Dyer is exemplary among the "gurus" that I have tried to follow over the years, and after the initial lift, quickly discovered that - like all the others - he only had hold of one part of the elephant, and that part was mostly likely the part that goes cha-ching.  On the advice of a friend back around 1980, I read Pulling Your Own Strings and I really got a lot out of it.  Of all his books, it may be the most direct and practical, although to many folks that for whatever reason are more "normal" than me, many of his suggestions are beyond obvious.

I backtracked and read Your Erroneous Zones, which was ok but lacked the readability and practicality of Strings.  Then I tried to read The Sky's The Limit and was turned off before I got halfway through, because at this point I believe Dyer began declaring himself to be a fully-developed, fully-actualized person and even while he admonished people for wanting to be something they're not, he clearly was preaching "be more like me".

By the time I was going through my 10th guru or so, "take what you can use and leave the rest" was foremost in my mind, although certainly around the time I encountered James Redfield in 1995, that familiar feeling kicked in.  This guy is really on to something.  Yes, another part of the elephant, and one I even recognized in some ways.  But he was teetering on the brink of losing me by the end of the first book, and I never could get into the second book at all.  What I learned from Redfield is exactly what his autobiographical narrator learns: you will cross paths with people in your life, that you can learn from and perhaps you can also teach - but do not linger.  Redfield's narrator is frequently frustrated because just about the time he's really "getting it" from one of his would-be teachers, they disappear.  So that was a very good message to learn, and I made Redfield disappear when I had had enough.

And I did the same with my private psychotherapy and group therapy.  Both ran their course, and both tried to talk me out of quitting but ultimately both supported my decision to move on, because the primary thing I had learned is that the goal of therapy should NOT be to spend the rest of your life in therapy.

So why I have I stuck with one single thing - AA - for all these years?  Because AA is the channel by which I connect with all of the people I am to learn from.  It is not the only channel, but it's still the most fruitful.  It's dynamic, ever shifting, like my home group regulars.  There are people there with more sobriety than me, but when it comes to continuous group membership, I'm now the oldtimer.

Barisax

Well said Bari, this and the authority thread are exactly how I feel, it's like the steps were my "center" my "spiritual kindergarten" if you will and over the years I pick stuff up here and there, some SLAA here, some CODA stuff there, some ACOA stuff here, some therapy there, and books, books and more books, but ultimately

Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the wise, seek instead what they sought
Basho

Like in Siddhartha where he meets the living entity of "The Buddha" and listens to his teachings for awhile and his friend decides to stay so he interviews with the Buddha guy and says "it's obvious you are enlightened, your teachings are simple yet profound, your very being shouts you have achieved enlightenment.......yet I couldn't help noticing none of your followers have achieved enlightenment so I think I am going to pursue my own path....thank you for your time."

The funny thing, and most profound for me, is it is at that point (i think been 10-15 years since I read it) he chooses to live of hedonism for 20 years, goes spiritually bankrupt and instead of committing suicide resumes a spiritual path, but that -still- isn't where and why he achieves enlightenment, it is because of his broken heart over the unrequited love of his son that pushes him over the edge, his "codependent bottom" where he discovers what unconditional love is is when and where he finally achieves enlightenment, it wasn't his successes per se that made him grow so much as a person but his so called "failures". and that I think is why AA is so important, it's not our "successes" that cause us to grow, but our failures, as in pain is the touchstone of all spiritual growth, and we recognize that here in AA, it's not what we did right that causes such deep empathy and compassion and wisdom we see in the rooms, but what we did wrong and we grow from that