I just can't stay at meetings - valium doesn't help.

puzzled · Member

I just can't stay at meetings - valium doesn't help.

billyjack · Senior Member

Your right. They used to think alcoholism was a Valium deficiency. Valium has a molecular structure very close alcohol, so valium is really a dry drink.

redtara · Member

A lot of us at one time or another have suffered from panic attacks. If there is no willingness it's very difficult to get better. Perhaps your false pride is standing in the way. Many of us have gone in complete wrecks and made emotional scenes on our journey to getting better. We are self centered in the extreme and we create obsessions and problems that are blown way out of proportion. That's part of the damage we do to our minds when we become obsessed with alcohol. Panic attacks are fearful obsessions gone wild. Meetings and the steps will give you a road map back to finding your sanity. I would be inclined to think you are not doing the steps on a regular basis. A fourth step inventory might give you your bearings.
Running from our pain and suffering is exactly what causes more of it. Embellishing our fear with imagined stories will make us crazy. We are capable of using our minds as a tool for good and not become paralized by the egos obsession with itself. Keep reaching out to people and see discomfort as your teacher. Your higher power is anything but your own ego (impressions, opinions)
I hope by your higher powers grace your given a willingness to change and begin to pray. Prayer hands your ego over to the greater good and enliven's your spirit. You can find another sponser with long term sobriety and who won't mince words with you. I found it best to find an old timer who went right by the book. I really needed a firm foundation. I don't believe thiers any half measures here like the book says "Half measures availed us nothing until we let go absolutely". Don't mean to be trite, but boy the writing in the first reading that leads to the steps saved my ass. I had to listen to it for 5 and a half years before it finally sank in thoroughly, and it's as true as true can be.
Best Wishes

-- Edited by redtara on Saturday 9th of April 2011 02:04:14 PM

puzzled · Member

I have worked through the steps and am on 8 and 9 currently - although I do revisit each of the ones I've taken, and struggle with them sometimes.

But sometimes I just don't believe in AA anymore; it's as though there's nothing there: no recovery, no Higher Power and I really struggle with willingness.

I question the statistics: out of those who try out AA how many recover? How many would have stopped drinking, any way? Is it the same 3 per cent or so?

-- Edited by puzzled on Saturday 9th of April 2011 02:19:28 PM

TwelveSteps · Senior Member

I was diagnosed with a panic disorder back in college, way before I started drinking. I currently work with a therapist whose specialties include people who suffer from both panic/anxiety and substance abuse. It has been immensely helpful. I would highly recommend talking to someone with a similar specialty in your area.

GG

redtara · Member

I think there may be deep (hidden)denial going on. Many in AA don't recover because of this. It's the lucky few who stay. That's why we are called miracles. The steps aren't events they are things we implement into our lives on a daily basis. Some of the steps are done moment to moment. You have no higher power because your unwilling to listen and your ego thinks it already knows everything there is to know. Perhaps you have not hit your bottom or you are making up reasons to not engage in recovery, or you think there may be another way. The door is always open to experiment. But, once you leave there's no guarantee the door will swing back in the other way. It might do you some good to find another sponser or make a few calls and talk about what's really eating you. Your panic attacks might be physiological but they are mostly forgetting to breath deep.
We all have trust issues and breaking this barrier with someone is important and will help your mind to settle. Remember it is a we program, your not doing this alone. It's very difficult to recover by yourself because non-alcoholics have difficulty understanding what your going through. We know it well and have been where you are. Talk to somebody. Go to a meeting and shut up and listen.
Best Wishes

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

I have been diagnosed with panic disorder in the past. What works is exposure and response prevention. If you keep giving in, you are letting both the panic and the alcoholism kick your ass. If you are determined not to believe and to be a victim, than that is what you will be. Dig deep now and do not allow yourself to turn into a total victim. I would also start over at step 1 at this point because someone clearly wasn't working in your program for you to think drinking is the proper medication for panic. It will NEVER help and will ALWAYS make it worse. If you don't believe that wholeheartedly, you are still stuck on step 1 and should not move forward from there.

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

TwelveSteps wrote:
I was diagnosed with a panic disorder back in college, way before I started drinking. I currently work with a therapist whose specialties include people who suffer from both panic/anxiety and substance abuse. It has been immensely helpful. I would highly recommend talking to someone with a similar specialty in your area.

GG

I agree with TwelveSteps...finding a specialist is a good idea. Don't give up on AA...not just yet. Everything will work out in the end, just wait and see.

-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 9th of April 2011 09:00:29 PM

-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 9th of April 2011 09:01:57 PM

-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 9th of April 2011 09:02:21 PM

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

puzzled wrote:

I question the statistics: out of those who try out AA how many recover? How many would have stopped drinking, any way? Is it the same 3 per cent or so?

-- Edited by puzzled on Saturday 9th of April 2011 02:19:28 PM

I have seen hundreds of people recover in AA. I think it is silly to consider any statistic regarding our own recovery. It's either we recover or we don't.

God gives us free will, and will also give us willingness if we ask. If you get back into step 3 out of self and into God and helping others, you wouldn't leave meetings early and you certainty would not be upset about your sponsor helping other people.

Get to the meeting early to help others and set-up and stay after to help others...it works if you work it, and has been 100% effective for me and many others.

AA is not for everyone, only for those who want to be happy in recovery.

Sorry if this came out too pointed, just try to share my ESH. I hope this can help you see the light and recovery.

Rob

Guelph_Doug · Member

IMO, the first thing you should do is talk with your sponsor and express your concerns. If you have before, then do it again. If that doesn't yield some more support then consider a new sponsor, but always be totally upfront about the panic attacks and how it affects your perceptions about the meetings you attend.

Remember, two or more people talking about recovery IS a meeting. Perhaps that's the best way for you to approach this. Maybe your sponsor could arrange that you "start small" with a daily coffee meeting and add a person at a time over a couple of weeks until you are comfortable with a larger group.

Recovery from anything takes time AND persistence. If you want to recover, you must be "willing to go to any lengths to get it". Fight the good fight and soon you will see results.

Pax Vobiscum

D

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Rob84 wrote:
puzzled wrote:

I question the statistics: out of those who try out AA how many recover? How many would have stopped drinking, any way? Is it the same 3 per cent or so?

-- Edited by puzzled on Saturday 9th of April 2011 02:19:28 PM
I have seen hundreds of people recover in AA. I think it is silly to consider any statistic regarding our own recovery. It's either we recover or we don't.
God gives us free will, and will also give us willingness if we ask. If you get back into step 3 out of self and into God and helping others, you wouldn't leave meetings early and you certainty would not be upset about your sponsor helping other people.
Get to the meeting early to help others and set-up and stay after to help others...it works if you work it, and has been 100% effective for me and many others.
AA is not for everyone, only for those who want to be happy in recovery.
Sorry if this came out too pointed, just try to share my ESH. I hope this can help you see the light and recovery.
Rob

Quoted for truth! Excellent post Rob. AA is not for everyone, certainly everyone is welcome. Obviously if your are havinq panic attacks and can barely sit throuqh a meetinq, then hopefully your seeinq a counselor on a reqular basis to work throuqh that. I had a lot of fear and anxiety, the 6 months till about a year. I sweated, stuttered, and cowered in the back of meetinqs prayinq not to be called on to speak.

Nobody spoke of "panic attacks" or disorders that described what I was qoinq throuqh back then (early '90's). I knew that I had nowhere else to qo, and I was also a druq addict so takinq maintenance meds wasn't an option (so I thouqht) for me. So I touqhed it out. I made myself show up 15 minutes early and introduce myself to at least 2 new people (that I didn't know) and the chair person. I stayed after for 10 minutes and introduced myself to 2 more. I went to about 5 of my daily meetinqs a week at the same AA club, so in a short period of time I meet a hundred people, and qot to know a couple dozen pretty well. The funny thinq was, that I was (and still am) terrible at rememberinq people's names, but invariably most of those people remembered mine. In a short time I had a couple people at every meetinq sayinq or wavinq hi to me, which felt a lot better than slippinq in and out of meetinqs not talkinq to anyone.

ferrisdp · Senior Member

Have you talked to your dcotor about non-narcotic medication options? Things like valium and Xanax are basically alcohol in pill form . My panic attacks and severe anxiety have abated since becoming sober and with the help of non-narcotic medication. As Pinkchip said, cognitive behavioral thrapy has also proven to be quite successful. Panic attacks are real and I will not sit here and say get sober and they will dissappear -- I mean, you were sober for 3 1/2 years and the panic attacks started while you were sober. You do have options -- you don't have to tough it out.

slugcat · Senior Member

i had panic attacks before and still after first getting sober. they hardly ever happen now. i was in therapy for things related to my childhood for about 10 years. panic attacks still happen but not as bad and not nearly as frequently. for me i needed that therapy and it helped me cope , outside issues needing outside help. Im not sure but i think that past stuff of mine is sometimes related to the attacks but that is just me and its different for everyone.

In AA i once had someone tell me that i was getting attacks because i needed to do another 4th step! what a load phooey! I was on antidepresents when i first sobered up and before that also.

I meet lots of people in AA who also battle with things such as panic attacks you arent alone and if you had one in a meeting i would hope you would get support.

I did more recently have a horrible bout of OCD obession type thoughts that were bringing on panic in meetings so much i had to leave sometimes or avoided meetings and had to go to others.

about not wanting to get to meetings or finding them annoying someone suggested that i pray for the willinginess to go to meetings and i use that i find it helps a lot. it really helps me to pray for willingness to get to meetings.

and yep also got suggested to me to do some service at a meeting and i found that helpful it made me go there and feel part of. i dont like being bossed around or being committed to things but it helped.

-- Edited by slugcat on Sunday 10th of April 2011 03:10:40 PM

slugcat · Senior Member

also if your antidepressant is causing problems it would pay to tell doctors and maybe they can try something else. i was initially on amitriptaline and that was ok but when i tried proszac i had bad reaction made me feel mental and my GP was saying i had to keep on it, that it would get better but i just couldn't. cant stop them suddenly but maybe if its not the best med they can try something else. Just a thought im not an expert!

-- Edited by slugcat on Sunday 10th of April 2011 03:10:18 PM

happycamper · MIP Old Timer

Valium, Xanax = liquid alcohol.

The story in the book : Doctor , Alcoholic, Addict. Edition 3.

I do the best I can to keep it simple. I trust God, clean house and help others.
I USE the program of AA to get me thru bad times/days and Gods guidance.

puzzled · Member

I'm ditching AA altogether - I believe it's done more harm than good and am no longer prepared to listen to the anodyne platitudes, nor be around people who seem to have sick, co-dependant relationships with each other. Also, I don't believe in spirituality - how can I when I don't believe in spirits? - let alone make it the 'cornerstone of my recovery.'

I'm told I'm arrogant, in denial, too intelligent... maybe, but I've been dumb enough to put up with 5 years of AA.

No more.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

OK. Good luck with everything. Just keep in mind AA will still be here if you ever feel you need it.

Guelph_Doug · Member

good luck... btw the synonyms for anodyne are quite informative.

cindy · Senior Member

wow..im astounded by u heartless dicks..all experts eh?..u all threw rocks..forgetting u all live in glass houses

redtara · Member

Exoerts no. Honest yes. There's no one ever helped me who sugar coated things. When one is ready to listen the teacher arrives. The teacher is everybody.