First meeting tonight and feeling a bit out of place

Michelle2 · Member

First meeting tonight and feeling a bit out of place

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

you needn't be religious or believe in a deity to have AA work, if you listen closely, they say "God of your understanding, could be the infinite, like, all physics and math, space and beyond, one dictionary definition is "The Great Reality", once I plugged in my own "value" whenever I heard the word "God", no matter who said it, I got OK with the idea, I still kind of have to push Jahweh, the patriarchal judeo/christian deity out of my mind when I hear the word "God" on occasion, but the truth is, that is the one idea that is "sacred" in AA, is that we get to choose our own concept and don't question others faiths or beliefs, ...the freedom is.....astounding, then I learned although we may be using different words, following different paths, we are all seeking the same thing, sobriety and the freedom from the bondage of self, freedom from bondage to the ego

the steps are a mathematical formula that require "X" to work, X= a power greater then yourself that is not you that bring about a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism, our more religious members call it God consciousness, our less religious members call it a personality change, but quite frankly, god consciousness describes it pretty well, the steps remove ego, which is a feeling of conscious seperation from, so remove that it's kind of hard to deny some strangeness is going on when you feel at one with the universe ya know?

anyhow, you needn't be religious nor believe in "GAAAWD" per se, I don't, and we come in all shapes and sizes, buddhists, taoists, wiccans, hindus, pindis, jews, even baptists (I'm KIDDING), if you are interested, here, read this:

A secular Guide to being a godless heathen in AA

Michelle2 · Member

Thanks.. that makes sense

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

The last thing I was interested in was the "God" part of things, too.

If I hadn't have been that sick and crushed that I had nowhere else to go I might not have stayed. But I listened, I saw happy people that had once been like me and I kept an open mind.

Whether it was a real spiritual awakening or a psychic change that happened to me is irrelevant because what ever it was took away that insane urge to constantly drink, and I feel so good about the world even when things are not going my way. What is also irrelevent to me is what other people might think about it. If I told them what I believe they might laugh and religions might hand me over to the inquisition but I don't care. It is my own personal, private spiritual journey and boy does it make me feel good.

It's cost me nothing except a bunch of bad habits and made me a better person in the bargain.

ferrisdp · Senior Member

Welcome Michelle. Can I suggest that you take a read through chapter 4 of the Big Book (We Agnostics). If you Google "AA big book" you can find an online copy of the "Big Book Online Fourth Edition". This was a life changer for me.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Michelle...I was agnostic too at the start. Don't worry about it. Your problem is in your definition of God. You could view God as anything but yourself. Faith is a necessary and good thing...but it is faith in something larger than yourself. It does not have to be a christian God or God in any way others conceptualize. Don't let that aspect of the program hang you up. Don't define "Faith" as belief in a christian God. Faith only means "to believe" in the recovery sense and it can mean to believe in the AA fellowship, your home group...whatever you want as long at it is a group or process that is larger than yourself. Don't focus on others' belief in God...form your own. I know one person that had Samantha from bewitched as their higher power...LOL whatever floats your boat.

Mark

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

OK I struggled with the word GOD at the beginning. It's a word. Could be an abbreviation or acronym - Group of Drunks, Good Orderly Discipline are two I've heard.

My sponsors missus summed it up for me. She said Bill, you've not had a drink for several weeks, but you haven't put any work in. How's that happened?

My honest answer was I didn't know. She said maybe that's your Higher Power, your own personal God as you understand the word at work.

Me: but I don't believe in God. Her: that's OK he believes in you. Me; but I don't have an understanding - when they say a God of your understanding - I don't have one. Her: all you need to understand is there is one.....and it isn't you.

That still does for me.

billyjack · Senior Member

Michelle2 wrote:
I really need some kind of support to quit drinking, I've tried it on my own before and only lasted 3 weeks. My problem is that I'm agnostic and AA is very spiritually based. I feel like a hypocrite during the prayer at the end of the meeting.. I don't believe that "God" will help me quit drinking so where can I go that doesn't rely on faith?

Welcome Michelle, Most of us in AA are of the agnostically inclined variety. I came into AA thinking I was a believer, only to find out I was agnostic. It was said to me that if I were a believer I would be acting like a believer. In my opinion, me being agnostic means that I believe God is running the universe, but I go about my life like He not there. I feel like why would He do anything for me after the way I have been. Well I found out that, that kind of thinking was all crap. If you stay for a while, you might find that will happen for you too. Glad your here. sounds like your in the right place and your not alone...

TwelveSteps · Senior Member

I'm am atheist in AA. I find the chapter "we Agnostics" unbelievably patronizing. I've learned to visualize my higher power (not god) in a way that helps me.

GG

redtara · Member

The language in the big book is old. You have to be willing to read between the lines. Without the willingness it's very difficult. Please remember that alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful. This includes finding excuses for not attending meetings. What your higher power is is up to you. Could be anything as long as it's not your own ego. There's a certain degree of tolerance yo have to have to allow others to express their beliefs are regarding theirs. My first time in AA I was in for 2 years and used this very excuse to leave. 8 years later and with a whole lot more damage done to everyone around me I returned. Tread very carefully with this subject -find a way to make it work.

All the best in finding a sober happy life- you'll find it through working the steps and finding support.

happycamper · MIP Old Timer

Get a Power Greater than yourself, or get drunk.

I share my God with new ppl who dont believe right off the bat.

Sure, go ahead and use my God. He is big enough, strong enough, and most definately powerful enough to sober up anyone.

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

No religious affiliation is required, only a willingness to move beyond your comfort zone. In fact, the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. Certain steps must be taken, though, if you desire too -of course. None of those steps point to a specific God, though, just a higher power of our own understanding.

I have many friends in AA who claim no religious affiliation. My non-religious friends usually choose the collective knowledge found in the rooms of AA as their higher power. Some of those people have experienced lasting sobriety, without the need to profess a certain religious affiliation -like others do. We are a fellowship of men and women, whose primary goal is to help the still suffering alcoholic achieve sobriety -one day at a time.

I hope no one has pressured you to adopt their god as your higher power, thus closing the door on any other persons interpretation, not just their own. Step 3 does say and I'm quoting here: "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understood Him". The higher power they are referring too, has more to do with "as we understand him", not as "someone else understands him". Don't allow anyone to convince you that their "God is the only "God" -period.

AA is a wonderful fellowship, so don't shy away from its threshold because of unbelief. We would rather you stay in the confines of this wonderful fellowship, than to experience anymore turmoil at the hands of this deadly disease. True and lasting peace can only be found in confines of a sober community known around the world as AA. So stay...regardless...because you're worth it.......

-- Edited by Mr_David on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 01:47:40 AM

-- Edited by Mr_David on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 01:49:14 AM

-- Edited by Mr_David on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 01:50:52 AM

-- Edited by Mr_David on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 01:51:38 AM

Michelle2 · Member

Thank you all for your replies. I did go back for a meeting tonight. I have decided that for now my "higher power" is my own desire for the preservation of my family, friends, career, health and life.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

Michelle2 wrote:
Thank you all for your replies. I did go back for a meeting tonight. I have decided that for now my "higher power" is my own desire for the preservation of my family, friends, career, health and life.

Whatever gets you to the meetings. I had a tree at the start - a really nice tree - and it will always have a special place in my heart because it gave me something to hold onto when everything else was a mess.

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

Michelle2 wrote:
Thank you all for your replies. I did go back for a meeting tonight. I have decided that for now my "higher power" is my own desire for the preservation of my family, friends, career, health and life.

This is as close as I can explain how a "Godless heathen" was able to find a "higher power' in AA without writing a book, which I tend to do sometimes, I am most closely what's called a "Taoist" which just means "The way (things are)" there is no "God" in Taoism, there is no diety or "otherness'

so maybe apply the word "God" whenever you see the word "Tao" and you will see what we mean by saying "why don't you choose your own concept of God"

Tao ke tao, fei chang Tao. We have never seen Tao, but we try to explain it. This line means that there is something out there, but it is unknown so we do not know what to call it. When you study the Tao Te Ching, you have to use your heart to try to imagine what Tao really is. When we try to understand something that does not have a name and then try to name it, its name will not represent its true nature. For example, you can call someone Ted- but Ted is a common name and does not refer to a specific Ted. This is an example of the fact that when you try to name something, you are attaching your own meaning to it. The name we give something is limited by our knowledge of it. Because Tao is so difficult to understand, we cannot use our own knowledge and opinions to give it a name. What Lao Tzu is saying here is that even though he calls this thing Tao, the word Tao does not represent the true Tao.

When we say Tao, we have to know that we are referring only to the Tao that we understand from our own perspective- our narrow vision- and not the entire, true Tao. We do not understand the real Tao- we only understand a piece of it. This is something that is hard to explain and absorb, but you need to try to understand it. Remember that even if you use the name Tao, it does not represent Tao itself. Once you open your heart, you will start to absorb many things that come from the source- from Tao itself.

So when I say or hear the word "God" in a meeting, I don't think of it as "Yahweh" the patriarchal God of the Christians and the Jews, but my own concept of a power greater then myself, I had to literally take the word back and make it my own, I did that by looking the word up in the dictionary and seeing one definition was simply "The Great Reality"

I can do that....I can do "reality" and the truth is I can even believe reality and that power in reality I don't understand, like we don't even percieve 99% of what is going on has the power to get me sober, I needn't borrow anyone else's superstitions or religious beliefs, "The Great Reality" sufficed for me, at that moment the word "God" stopped being a stumbling block for me, because that is what makes AA a spiritual rather then a religious program is we don't have to consider anyone else's concept of God, their God is none of our business, as our God is none of theirs, and one of the basic "rights" that is actually insisted upon in AA is choosing our own concept, like that very cool, very powerful tree that helped Frodo's friend, I can get down with having a leafy friend as a deity

Tao ke tao, fei chang Tao. We have never seen God, but we try to explain it. This line means that there is something out there, but it is unknown so we do not know what to call it. When you study the Tao Te Ching, you have to use your heart to try to imagine what God really is. When we try to understand something that does not have a name and then try to name it, its name will not represent its true nature. For example, you can call something God- but God is a common name and does not refer to a specific God. This is an example of the fact that when you try to name something, you are attaching your own meaning to it. The name we give something is limited by our knowledge of it. Because God is so difficult to understand, we cannot use our own knowledge and opinions to give it a name. What Lao Tzu is saying here is that even though he calls this thing God, the word God does not represent the true God. (it only represents -his- God, so I plug in my OWN value for it, get it?)

When we say God, we have to know that we are referring only to the God that we understand from our own perspective- our narrow vision- and not the entire, true God. We do not understand the real God- we only understand a piece of it. This is something that is hard to explain and absorb, but you need to try to understand it. Remember that even if you use the name God, it does not represent God itself. Once you open your heart, you will start to absorb many things that come from the source- from God itself.

God being = the great reality

Now this is just me, you are allowed and encouraged to follow your OWN path to your OWN concept of a power greater then yourself, I am only showing how I was able to do this thing as an atheist/agnostic

I am not one of those who say "Get God or Get out" because personally I don't view that kind of bulls*** as helpful, I view it as the opposite of helpful actually, someone even to this day says "get god or get out" my response is "yeah? get F****d"

-- Edited by LinBaba on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 09:51:48 AM