Thank you again for your responses and I shall try to compose my self defences a little tighter from now on.
I posted to my original thread last night about powerlessness and received a response.
But I thought perhaps I should post it as a seperate thread so more of you would see it and add your perspective on it.
My perspective on saying "Im powerless" implies, to me, that I am not responsible for my actions. I at the present can not accept that. If someone murdered your child and then said "Hey I was powerless" I doubt you would accept that.
So I cant actualy believe Im powerless otherwise what am I? If 'I' cannot control my own actions then surely Im not 'me'...? Im just along for the ride.
Sit in a meeting and listen to the words of Powerlessness...in the first part of the meeting when "How it works" the meeting is getting started, you will always here the word Powerless. does apply to our inability to stop drinking alcohol once that first one goes in...Dean, or anyone, please post the words to "How it works".
When we get sober, and dig in and work the 12 Steps, we are VERY responsible for all our action, working the 12 Steps helps us, with the use of a guide, or Sponsor.....to just not pick up that first drink.....I think the importance of just listening is so very critical in the first months in the program, sure questions are ok, but listening is what I did for the whole first year, reason, I had been a relapser for so many years, and really knew that I needed to listen and repeat the process every 24 hours.
Hugs, Toni
-- Edited by Just Toni on Saturday 19th of March 2011 04:51:22 PM
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it -- then you are ready to take certain steps.
At some of these we balked. thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
Remember that we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power that One is God. May you find Him now!
Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. we asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
When it comes to Step One, admitting I am powerless over alcohol (and drugs for me), I had to take a good hard look at myself. What I found is that once I sought chemical peace of mind, I could not stop. No amount of alcohol or drugs was ever enough to do the trick. I wasn't a binge, black out daily drinker or user, but once I started, I could not stop. And it was becoming a situation that would only have spiraled further downward if it continued. I had no control. The end result of this was that my life, inside and out, became unmanageable. By admitting this to myself, I have actually empowered myself. I have made the choice to admit it had control of me, not the other way around. This does not make me irresponsible for my actions of drinking and drugging, but rather responsible for making the choice to do something about it. Peace
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I asked God for all things that I may enjoy life. He gave me life so that I may enjoy all things.
Moon...Powerlessness for me has to be looked at from a distance so that I can see more than what my old perspectives are telling me after all my perspectives are and have been for awhile affected by consumption of the mind and mood altering chemical alcohol. Under the influence one perspective and outside of the influence another.
Your metaphor for the child killer can easily be altered by perspective...sane or insane? Responsiblity is altered. Same as under the influence. When you first showed up the real person that present himself was (lol) a cow from a different moon? That cow was under the influence and you admit to that. I was drinking and I was drunk. When you are drunk you are not you...you are altered severely and will do things you might never do when not under the influence of our drug of choice...chemical alcohol. Face on you're responsible considered drunk you are responsible for the drinking; alcohol will take care of the rest. When it gets into your system alcohol with start it's own powerful magic and will take you away from you. You will not be able to think it to stop, feel it to stop, incarcerate your self to stop or meditate your self to stop. It will stop when it's level of power decreases and you slowly arrive back at some level of awareness and hightened responsibility. If you have been drinking for sometime like I had the alcoholic personality becomes embeded and takes longer to diffuse or hardly ever does. Dry Drunking refers to that power of alcoholism where the drunk personality shows up when there is no alcohol in the person.
Powerlessness...can you drink alcoholically (which is what you admit to) without the chemical doing it's thing? If the answer to that one is no it is only one level of powerlessness. If you cannot have a day without even the thought of alcohol or the wish or plan for alcohol, that is another embedded level of alcohol. If you cannot have a quiet period of reflection without remembering drinking episodes as important that is another. Gor me the first step is a two part step.
Admitted we were powerless of alcohol
and that
our lives had become unmanagable.
Unless I accept without reservation that I am truely powerless over alcohol I will always struggle with the idea and be susceptible to the next drink. I cannot think sobriety I must behave it just as I cannot think myself drunk I must drink or use the mind and mood altering chemical alcohol.
Go eat a box of exlax, and when it hits, lets see how much power you got to control that urge. And after its done you tell me, who's responsable for the mess. If anyone in AA is telling you that because they are powerless over alcohol that they are not responsable for what they done . They got there head so far up their ass they cant see the light of day.......just sayin
-- Edited by billyjack on Sunday 20th of March 2011 09:07:10 AM
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
Go eat a box of exlax, and when it hits, lets see how much power you got to control that urge. And after its done you tell me, who's responsable for the mess. If anyone in AA is telling you that because they are powerless over alcohol that they are not responsable for what they done . They got there head so far up their ass they cant see the light of day.......just sayin
-- Edited by billyjack on Sunday 20th of March 2011 09:07:10 AM
Ok, so that was NOT a good idea. I tried the exlax and you were right! And in retrospect, you were right. It was my fault. It was a great lesson, but I do not recommend the rest of you try it!
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Mooncalf, I love that you are questioning what concerns/bothers you in early recovery instead of attacking or getting defensive. That is growth already. So quickly you are making progress!
From what I understand it is very common to wonder about your sense of identity- self- responsibility when examining powerlessness. I think everyone who has shared on the matter has been very spot on and helpful.
What I would like to contribute to the discussion is what I found to be the biggest surprise so far of my sobriety, and that is- admitting powerless has made me much more powerful! I too, was panic stricked about being powerless. I had suffered childhood abuse, rape, alcohol abuse, toxic relationships...and my survivalist mentality did not easily let go of my need to try and control everything. So many times I had my power taken away from me that all I knew was the victim role, and fighting for power felt most natural to me. Where did it get me though? In such a state of despair that I was self medicating to the extreme to numb out all the pain, and letting my life unravel before my very eyes. On the outside I seemed to have things together, but on the inside I was dying, and ready to die. I was a shiny garbage can on a self destructive path, rolling to nowhere.
Ironically, since embracing AA and the 12 step program, I feel that I can handle anything that comes my way with serenity, and not have to take a drink over it. That is power! This program has done that for me. It has also taught me how to love myself, how to have self esteem and self worth, how to care about other people, how to take care of me and my family. With MY God's help I can do things I could never have done alone. In surrendering, letting go letting God (YOUR Higher Power- whatever that looks like to you), accepting the things we cannot change and having the courage to change what we can, we become part of something extremely powerful, and greater than our individual selves. Miracles can happen. We are all miracles.
Bottom line is: this program works if you work it! Get (and read) the Big Book, work the steps with a sponsor, go to many meetings, get a home group, do some service work in the program (pouring coffee, cleaning up after meetings, etc.), get connected! Call people in the program, reach out and be teachable. Be willing to open the door just a little bit to something larger than you that can help you, and reap the benefits! I've heard if you put as much effort into your recovery as you did obtaining and using/abusing alcohol, if you pursue your recovery AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT, you shall succeed! YOU DESERVE THIS! :)))
I fully agree. If i killed someone drunk driving i couldn tell a judge i was powerless. The judge would laugh me out of the courts with massive penalties.
I am powerless over alcohol. At some level I have always known this. So much so that although I have done things that I am ashamed of while drinking, I know the responsibility for my actions is mine and mine alone, because I took that first drink, no-one poured it down my neck and at some level I knew that once the first drink goes down I have no real control of what happens next (as regards how many drinks I take) and what happens when I'm in blackout.
Root cause analysis would show that if I didn't take the first drink, I couldn't take sufficient drinks to remove all inhibitions, sense of morals, conscience and restraint. I took the first drink myself. Therefore root cause analysis proves that the ultimate responsibility for my actions is mine
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
