The meeting after the meeting. The coffee at the coffee shop. The late night chat sessions. The coffee's at members houses. The picnic at the park on a Sunday with other members. The chat's for hours on the phone. Giving members a hand at work for a couple of days and then the impromptu AA meetings that result. These are the things that have meant so much to me over the years. Ironically when I say I got "sober" as in of mind AND body in the fellowship of AA I literally mean the fellowship. I have always felt more comfortable to get into the deep level of honesty in the after meeting meeting than in the formal structured environment.
I now have a special love for meeting venue carparks. It's something in our district at the moment that is sadly lacking, and we as a district are in the process of changing. I said to my group GSR that as great as it is to sit around listening to members who have good recovery and "understand" the book and the programme in depth and talk about the technical details of programme , that can on it's own without some light heartedness get really boring and old.
In an alcohol obsessed society where being sober and not drinking alcohol at all is not the "norm" lets face it, sometimes it's nice to just chill out in a park somewhere barbeque some meat and talk about fun stuff.
I'd love to hear from other members on what the fellowship of AA has meant to them.
Kind regards
Jamie
-- Edited by Jamie D on Thursday 3rd of March 2011 11:59:32 PM
You got it right there. It's the meetings between meetings that help so much. turning up early, helping to set up, the smoke break, the gathering in the car park after the meeting, the guy that collars you and asks you over for a coffee, 'cos he sees you have a face like a slapped babby's arse, the guy that turns up for a coffee and a chat, the socialising, sitting about chunking chords on guitars, going fishing, helping each other - all great stuff.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Thanks Jamie, for reminding us how truly important fellowship really is.
If I had a dollar for all the times my sobriety was affected by the thoughts, prayers and well wishes of my fellows, I would be a rich man by now. The meeting does go on beyond the scope of AA and with the help of Almighty God and my brethren; the prospect of another day safe and sober does as well.
I wish there were people who could view their worth through the eyes of someone else, just for one day. My brethren, provide so much of their time and effort to help in matters of grave importance to me -like easing my pain. I rely on their expertise and companionship in all matters, big and small, not just alcohol related ones. Their constant companionship has stood the test of time and without the fellowship of AA -as I understand it- the prospect of long term sobriety would be merely improbable.
Today like every day is a reminder that without true fellowship, inside and outside the rooms of AA, the prospect of a better life and victory over our disease one day at a time might just as well be an illusion. My higher power, whom I call Jesus Christ and the fellowship of AA, will stand the test of time; but the closeness I feel with those I choose to share my most treasured secrets with, has proven to be more valuable than any and all riches this world can ever offer -thanks be to God.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Friday 4th of March 2011 03:50:39 PM
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Meetings between meetings? Fellowship? Yikes, sounds like human contact to me. Me fear that.
I've been in the program 20 months and I'm just now starting to know a few people well enough to actually chat with them afterward, and then only for a couple of minutes.
One of the things I like about meetings is that they're structured and polite and have rules, which is the way ALL human interaction ought to be, in my opinion
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Yikes, sounds like human contact to me. Me fear that.
Wow. This really surprised me Z. I suppose I'd formed an idea in my mind concerning the sort of person you struck me as , going on some of your other posts, and a fear of others wasn't part of that Idea. I suppose it's hard to really get to know anyone if we are honest just from an internet forum.
Fellowship quite honestly is what saved my bacon and made life worth living
Fellowshipping is how I met my sponsor, where I made my friends, we'd go out every night after the meeting (I got sober pretty young) we'd stay out all night frequently
I started a meeting once, lasted maybe 5 years? at a beach at sunset, I'd get there early and build a big bonfire, we'd BBQ, people brought their kids and dogs, and at sunset we'd have the meeting, it would be full dark 1/2 way through the meeting, listening to shares while staring into a fire under the stars....wow
I'd say 99% of my friends today I made fellowshipping, most of whom I've known for coming up on 20 years, all of us that fellowshipped stayed sober, over the years what thinned our ranks was we got jobs, college degrees, careers, had children, got married, what made us "drop out" was life, not alcohol
Sobriety isn't a meeting now and again, Sobriety is a way of life and fellowshipping is part of that, and all are welcome, I don't even know how to handle areas where they don't "fellowship" I've seen it a few times and it boggled my mind
IMO it's part of "thoroughly followed our path" Seeing much of each other, scarce an evening passed that someone's home did not shelter a little gathering of men and women, happy in their release, and constantly thinking how they might present their discovery to some newcomer. In addition to these casual get-togethers, it became customary to set apart one night a week for a meeting to be attended by anyone or everyone interested in a spiritual way of life. Aside from fellowship and sociability, the prime object was to provide a time and place where new people might bring their problems.
We have shown how we got out from under. You say, "Yes, I'm willing. But am I to be consigned to a life where I shall be stupid, boring and glum, like some righteous people I see? I know I must get along without liquor, but how can I? Have you a sufficient substitute?"
Yes, there is a substitute and it is vastly more than that. It is a fellowship in Alcoholics Anonymous. There you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you.
"How is that to come about?" you ask. "Where am I to find these people?"
You are going to meet these new friends in your own community. Near you, alcoholics are dying helplessly like people in a sinking ship. If you live in a large place, there are hundreds. High and low, rich and poor, these are future fellows of Alcoholics Anonymous. Among them you will make lifelong friends. You will be bound to them with new and wonderful ties, for you will escape disaster together and you will commence shoulder to shoulder your common journey. Then you will know what it means to give of yourself that others may survive and rediscover life. You will learn the full meaning of "Love thy neighbor as thyself."
-- Edited by LinBaba on Saturday 5th of March 2011 10:16:53 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Yeah, for me, the difference between an avatar and a human face is huge. Avatars don't change when you make a social gaffe or display insufficient wit.
Humans aslso tend to be untrustworthy. There's no guarantee that they won't gossip out whatever you say, or suddenly decide they're not that in to you and just disappear. I guess that's one reason I depend on my HP so much. No falsehood there, not a drop.
Jamie D wrote:zzworldontheweb wrote:
Yikes, sounds like human contact to me. Me fear that.
Wow. This really surprised me Z. I suppose I'd formed an idea in my mind concerning the sort of person you struck me as , going on some of your other posts, and a fear of others wasn't part of that Idea. I suppose it's hard to really get to know anyone if we are honest just from an internet forum.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
I can remember in the first couple years of sobriety, some lost and lonely souls who hung out at local diners and befriended the AA's who often came in. A couple of the souls started attending AA meetings and professed that they where Alcoholic, we all knew they weren't really drinkers, but we rolled with them.
This is when I knew we really have something special that I was very grateful for. I love the time spent at the diners before and after meetings, and sitting with sponcees over coffee.
I play golf on the weekends with 6-8 mostly AA friends, we rarely talk program, but we know each other inside and out and are all true friends and will be there for each other in a time of need.
....And I only came here to just get sober!
Yes, there is a substitute and it is vastly more than that. It is a fellowship in Alcoholics Anonymous. There you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you. How is that to come about? you ask. Where am I to find these people? You are going to meet these new friends in your own community. Near you, alcoholics are dying helplessly like people in a sinking ship. If you live in a large place, there are hundreds. High and low, rich and poor, these are future fellows of Alcoholics Anony- mous. Among them you will make lifelong friends. You will be bound to them with new and wonderful ties, for you will escape disaster together and you will commence shoulder to shoulder your common journey. Then you will know what it means to give of yourself that others may survive and rediscover life. You will learn the full meaning of Love thy neighbor as thy- self.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Life will take on new meaning. To watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to see a fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends - this is an experience you must not miss. We know you will not want to miss it. Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives.
I couldn't even begin to imagine my life in AA without these experiences, without fellowshipping in AA, without the friends I have made, the love I have received, helping others when they couldn't help themselves and then in turn have these people carry me when I couldn't carry myself...what an empty, sad existence my life would have been without this, to be able to be myself and be loved unconditionally anyway, to be loved so much people told me the truth and it was OK, to love unconditionally, to walk this path together, I've been to places without this and it was sad and lonely
Finally, we begin to see that all people, including ourselves, are to some extent emotionally ill as well as frequently wrong, and then we approach true tolerance and see what real love for our fellows actually means. It will become more and more evident as we go forward that it is pointless to become angry, or to get hurt by people who, like us, are suffering from the pains of growing up.
Such a radical change in our outlook will take time, maybe a lot of time. Not many people can truthfully assert that they love everybody. Most of us must admit that we have loved but a few; that we have been quite indifferent to the many so long as none of them gave us trouble; and as for the remainder--well, we have really disliked or hated them. Although these attitudes are common enough, we A.A.'s find we need something much better in order to keep our balance. We can't stand it if we hate deeply. The idea that we can be possessively loving of a few, can ignore the many, and can continue to fear or hate anybody, has to be abandoned, if only a little at a time.
We can try to stop making unreasonable demands upon those we love. We can show kindness where we had shown none. With those we dislike we can begin to practice justice and courtesy, perhaps going out of our way to understand and help them.
Life without Love shared with others is no life at all, and a mate and one or two friends wasn't enough for me, I've had that, and I've never been in a sadder, sicker state then when that was the case, Isolation and fear of others is the disease, not the solution
zzworldontheweb wrote:
Yeah, for me, the difference between an avatar and a human face is huge. Avatars don't change when you make a social gaffe or display insufficient wit.
Humans aslso tend to be untrustworthy. There's no guarantee that they won't gossip out whatever you say, or suddenly decide they're not that in to you and just disappear. I guess that's one reason I depend on my HP so much. No falsehood there, not a drop.
You are missing 99.9% of the deal then ZZ, the steps and the fellowship are a radio for talking to God, I mean LITERALLY, you want to be brought to your knees crying because God's love is filling you so much you can't stand it? to feel the palpable presence of God, get a sponsor, work the steps and then start bringing some of that of that Christian love to your fellows, Faith without works is dead, it's a fantasy man, without actual -action- I wouldn't have received the benefits of this program, I know your afraid, we all afraid, that's why we drank...I can't convey to you how powerful these steps and the fellowship are when worked in conjuction...I just....can't, I know I am a nameless, faceless avatar that spouts nonsense rhetoric here on the web, but with all the earnestness at my command I BEG you, I plead with you, give the actual program a shot, and then you and I can talk about an actual, palpable feeling of the nearness of our creator
Literally, I have been brought to my knees, tears streaming down my face as I felt...like...light...just coursing through me, just lifted off my feet...come...have this experience, like you say, these steps and this program is based on YOUR faith, so there is nothing to fear, give it a shot, it works, and fear of others will be lifted and we are able to see ALL people as God's children as the result of the steps
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 6th of March 2011 10:26:22 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I gotta respectfully disagree a bit when absolutely conflating a relationship with AA people with a relationship with God. I have a relationship with God and have had for many years. I have indeed had the weeping, on my knees experience that you describe, in church. I don't really need a radio for talking to God because his son Jesus Christ is right here with me all the time. And I do mean as a real person, directly present (I got a little cynical about that for a while, which led to drinking. My goal is not to repeat that mistake).
I do go to meetings and I do have cordial relationships with my fellow AA's. I'm just a little shy, and shyness is a normal human trait, nothing to be ashamed of or fear. In fact, it's the norm in most countries. Extreme emotional extroversion is an American cultural trait. You describe fellowship as 99.9% of the program, I had a sponsor that described it as 50%, with the other 50% being the book and steps, so I think it's variable.
This board is nice too, but honestly, it's a rather minor accessory to my sobriety, and I HOPE it is for the rest of us too. The whole avatar vs face thing was just an explanation of why I'm probably more frank here than in meetings.
HOWEVER, in the spirit of quashing self-centeredness, I promise I'll put a little more effort into being sociable after meetings.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
I gotta respectfully disagree a bit when absolutely conflating a relationship with AA people with a relationship with God. I have a relationship with God and have had for many years. I have indeed had the weeping, on my knees experience that you describe, in church. I don't really need a radio for talking to God because his son Jesus Christ is right here with me all the time. And I do mean as a real person, directly present (I got a little cynical about that for a while, which led to drinking. My goal is not to repeat that mistake).
I do go to meetings and I do have cordial relationships with my fellow AA's. I'm just a little shy, and shyness is a normal human trait, nothing to be ashamed of or fear. In fact, it's the norm in most countries. Extreme emotional extroversion is an American cultural trait. You describe fellowship as 99.9% of the program, I had a sponsor that described it as 50%, with the other 50% being the book and steps, so I think it's variable.
This board is nice too, but honestly, it's a rather minor accessory to my sobriety, and I HOPE it is for the rest of us too. The whole avatar vs face thing was just an explanation of why I'm probably more frank here than in meetings.
HOWEVER, in the spirit of quashing self-centeredness, I promise I'll put a little more effort into being sociable after meetings.
Just to be perfectly clear, I described working the 12 steps with a sponsor and the "fellowshipping" that occurs with working a 12th step and watching people recover and having a fellowship grow around you as 99.9% of "The Deal", sorry I wasn't more clear, "fellowshipping" in and of itself is basically useless without the accompanying work, hell alcoholics do that all day every day, we call those places they meet and "fellowship" bars
You are missing 99.9% of the deal then ZZ, the steps and the fellowship are a radio for talking to God, I mean LITERALLY
The entire purpose of the steps is to bring about a conscious contact with God, it was explained to me that if God is "light", then fears, resentments, our little plans and designs are "window shades" which block "the light" and by working the steps we rid ourselves of what is between us and God, and my experience is it works, fears of people (and economic insecurity) are lifted, we are more interested in what we can give back to life (other people) then our own little plans and designs
It's hard to improve on perfection, in which case there is no reason to work the steps, but the -working- the steps bring about an incredible spiritual experience, just thought you might be interested in it, since you are an avowed christian, and this is first century Christianity, let me put it this way, I'm NOT a christian, and it worked for me, imagine how powerful it would be for you
just an idea
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 6th of March 2011 02:00:42 PM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Hmmm... the first century Christians actually made a lot of mistakes, which is why Paul had to write all those letters straightening them out. In a way that whole section of the bible is meant to prevent us from making the same mistakes they did. People in our society tend to think that the quality of one's Christianity is correlated to how bubbly and extroverted and vulnerable one is, but that's just projecting American cultural values onto it. Charity is is in what one does as well as how one talks.
My friends in AA don't seem to be acosting me after meetings and asking why I don't stick around and jaw, so I just get the impression they don't have much of a problem with it. I don't feel the need to be spilling my guts all the time because frankly, my life has been pretty good and I have little to complain about.
I don't mind hearing OTHER's troubles of course. Again, I promise I'll try a little harder after meetings.
-- Edited by zzworldontheweb on Sunday 6th of March 2011 04:42:45 PM
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Hmmm... the first century Christians actually made a lot of mistakes, which is why Paul had to write all those letters straightening them out. In a way that whole section of the bible is meant to prevent us from making the same mistakes they did. People in our society tend to think that the quality of one's Christianity is correlated to how bubbly and extroverted and vulnerable one is, but that's just projecting American cultural values onto it. Charity is is in what one does as well as how one talks.
My friends in AA don't seem to be acosting me after meetings and asking why I don't stick around and jaw, so I just get the impression they don't have much of a problem with it. I don't feel the need to be spilling my guts all the time because frankly, my life has been pretty good and I have little to complain about.
I don't mind hearing OTHER's troubles of course. Again, I promise I'll try a little harder after meetings.
-- Edited by zzworldontheweb on Sunday 6th of March 2011 04:42:45 PM
Normally at this point I'd say we'll just have to agree to disagree about the steps and working the 12th step and having a fellowship grow up around us as the result of our 12th step and this being an experience "that you must not miss" as our literature says, but that doesn't feel like that is what is happening here, so I guess I'll agree we are having 2 seperate and completely unrelated conversations and let it go
I think my favorite thing about AA is it's a program of action, that it states clearly "Faith Without Works is dead" and in our Program Love is a verb, not a noun, Love is something we do, not something we say, Love is an action word, and our way of life is something we do, not just some amorphous concept we talk about, what we do and who we help and how we live and how we apply these principals in all our affairs defines who we are, not who we say we are, and if we don't follow these principals, we are the ones who suffer (emotionally, full of fear and resentment, not to mention relapsing, unhappy relationships with those around us etc) but we have these steps with clear cut instructions and promises, when we do this like this, we get this
AA doesn't care how much money you have or who your daddy is or what you have done in the past or what God you worship, AA says, "Welcome, if you have a problem with Alcohol you are in the right place" and shows us love
It shows us how to have a spiritual awakening and it shows us how to pass that experience on to others, it gives us a purpose, and a conscious contact with a God of OUR OWN understanding, what could be better? It gives us a place where it teaches us to be accountable, it points out "I used to judge myself by my intentions while everyone else was judging me by my actions" and teaches us how to put our money where our mouth is, to put up or shut up. I don't get "saved" in AA by believing IN anything, I get "saved" in AA by getting off my ass and helping others, and the rewards are amazing, and the door is open to everyone of all beliefs, the realm of the spirit is all inclusive never exclusive in AA, it's open to all and what we believe in is our own business, it's great, we just have to follow a few simple rules.
As Dr Bob said about AA it can be boiled down to 2 words, "Love and Service"
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 6th of March 2011 08:04:07 PM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
