I recently shared with a long time sober member ( who is well ) and whom I have alot of respect and love for, a part of my experience that I have had in AA that has baffled and surprised me, and surprisingly enough concerning this issue he said he had, experienced the same thing. I'm talking here about people saying to you regarding some part of your experience strength and hope when baffled by it and unable to find an understanding of it in their own mind "Oh well not everyone in AA is an alcoholic".
Now wether this is because they haven't done the steps and gotten well and someone well describing what it's like now, is incomprehensible or hearing someone describe the peace of mind it's possible to have when well is so unbelievable or embarressing if you haven't got it (yet) , it's angering I don't know.
The member I was referring to earlier in this thread is very widely known at area, district and national level and everyone who goes to his homegroup meeting enjoys hearing the difference between how mad he was ( because the guy was really mad ) and how well and at peace he is now, mainly because it's hope giving to hear someone describe the change being so profound, and I was absolutely gobsmacked that this guy has had members say to him "Oh, your not an alcoholic, if you were that wouldn't have been possible".
Now I hadn't shared with ANYONE not even my sponsor that I've had people say this to me , your not an alcoholic or that level of change or peace wouldn't be possible, but now I'm wondering how much does this stuff go on in the fellowship ????
Because it's a dangerous thought stream to be throwing around .
Kind regards
Jamie
-- Edited by Jamie D on Sunday 27th of February 2011 02:22:38 AM
I've not had anyone in the Fellowship say that to me, thankfully. Lots of people outside the Fellowship have, but as the BB tells us, their reactions are very different to alcohol than our own and there is widespread ignorance and misunderstanding of alcohol: in other words, non-AA's opinions on alcoholism do not count to me.
When I first came into AA, I would have been delighted if someone in AA had told me that I wasn't an alcoholic.
Deep down, to my innermost self, I didn't believe that I was an alcoholic. Part of the reason that I went to AA, I now realize, was to give me further evidence that I was worried for nothing, that my drinking was OK, "that here were people who were real alcoholics. All I've got to do so is go to the pub a little less, or when I do, really only have that one pint and then head off..."
That thinking, of course, was merely a manifestation of my insanity with respect to alcohol. The evidence of my powerlessness over alcohol and unmanageable life was compelling.
That kind of thinking led to relapse, but fortunately I was able to come back and work this program. Thank you AA.
If someone had said that to me in AA, then I would simply have relapsed a lot earlier.
While I can't stop someone from relapsing, I sure as heck don't want to help someone do so. So I stick to the line that "only you know whether you're an alcoholic, but here's how I came to admit to myself that I was."
In the event, the Big Book tells that you don't have to drink as much or as for as long as some of us in order to be a real alcoholic.
For that matter, I am incredibly grateful to be alcoholic today, because that was what led me to AA and AA has given me a life. Before AA, even before I was drinking alcoholically, I merely had an existence, no friends, no ability to finish anything, etc. AA has changed all that. I hear others with longer time in than me say that AA has given them a life beyond their wildest dreams -- I'm not there yet, but I am going to stick with AA, because if they can do it with this program, so can I.
Steve
-- Edited by SteveP on Sunday 27th of February 2011 05:04:19 AM
Ive never had anyone in AA say Im not an alcoholic.
I have heard and believe that No, not everyone in AA is an alcoholic. A real alcoholic that is. I believe there are hard/heavy drinkers as well as the ones who get busted for drinking and driving and are ordered to come to AA mtgs.
If a person comes to the rooms of AA and listens ... I mean really listens and reads the literature, then at least a seed is planted and they are then capable of making the decision of whether or not they belong on a permanent basis in AA.
It seems like the spectrum of dependency is so broad that there can be no absolute clear dividing line between normal and alcoholic. IF the individual thinks he has a problem, and the first couple of the 12 steps apply to him in his own reckoning, then we ought to yield to his judgment and give him the same kind of help we give everybody else. If he later finds out tht the program doesn't apply to him, he can drop out of his own accord.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
I had a friend from Australia (Dalby) who would say something similar, "You must not be an alcoholic then." But it was a joke. Neither one of us wanted to be an alcoholic, so we joked about it all the time. I agree, it could be dangerous if someone doesn't get the joke, that most of us couldn't accept we were alcoholic despite the DUI's, time in jail, etc.... the insanity of it was funny to us.
That's what I was thinking when I read your post, Jamie. Just throwing it out there.
-- Edited by gladlee on Sunday 27th of February 2011 10:15:16 AM
Plenty of times, by pretty much all my friends who are not in the rooms... the ones that saw me have two drinks socially and didn't know I had two bottles of wine waiting at home that I would drink by myself before bed. :)
Good point, oh Sovereign of the Waves. I've seen comments on other general boards when somebody admits to a drinking problem. Some yahoo will always come around and say "You're not an alcoholic. Alcoholics I know start drinking as soon as they get up and do nothing else all day". Meaning that, since the yahoo doesn't do that, he's not an alkie
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
I am one of those family and friends who are not in the rooms persons myself. My family was adamant at times because they rarely saw me collapse from drinking. When I did they were not there and of course who would care to have an alcoholic in the family; we just drank too much some....all....most of the time. Yeah that could be it. It's okay what they think or not...main person who's got to know and follow up on it is me. AA is a save your own ass program. So far mine is warm and smiling and feeling really sober. (((hugs)))
I have several friends, one very close one, that believe that my problems right now are more related to guilt, seperation, and women more than alcohol. I don't know if I'm an alcoholic, but the alcoholics I know accept me at my own judgement. I do know that after 9 days focusing more on pleasing God than myself and no alcohol, my head is clearer than it has been in months. Someone said in one of my earlier threads that it's better to be in AA pretending to be an alkie than sitting on a barstool pretending not to be. That's good enough for me.
I've never had anyone in AA tell me I'm not an alcoholic. Compared to many of you I'm a lightweight, in terms of how long I drank, how much I drank, and how much trouble I got into drinking. But there's no doubt I'm an alcoholic. So is my brother, who has been sober almost a year now and he admits he's a lightweight compared to *me*.
This program of recovery for alcohlics works really well on me. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Now I have had a small number of people *not* in AA tell me I'm not an alcoholic. One said that because I haven't had a drink in over 20 years, that proves I'm not an alcoholic. A religious relative told me that once I did step 3 and turned it over to God, that I was cured and could drink again......... stuff like that. But nobody in AA ever told me I wasn't qualified.
ive not had anyone say im not an alki. sometimes i get the feeling that one or maybe two people in the rooms think that though. it is a very dangerous train of thought for me too.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease. People enter AA at all different stages of alcoholism. The important thing is that I know I am an alcoholic and I know I need AA not only to help me stop drinking, but to help me have a better life. The ONLY requirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking...so I wish people would stop being so judgmental as it could be detrimental to those who are reaching out for help.
LUCKILY for me, I had not hit a bottom as low as some others...yet. I did not lose my job, get a DUI, go to jail, have my kids taken away, or contemplate suicide earnestly. I did recognize that my life was in a downward spiral and only getting worse. I was resentful, angry, bitter, resentful and fearful all the time. I ignored my responsibilities and drank to numb out and to forget. I had lost myself and my self worth. I felt like dirt and let people treat me like dirt. I bounced from bad relationship to bad relationship, blaming everyone else for all of my problems. There was nothing "manageable" about the circus my life had become, and the ringleader/sad clown was ME...with my partner Jack Daniels.
I am fortunate enough to have found a solution that works for me. Perhaps people who state, "you aren't a REAL alcoholic" are just jealous that they lost more than I did before I started my recovery...or they are envious that I am feeling really joyful and peaceful in my sobriety. My life is good and only getting better!
Don't be a hater! Be a motivator! I say, encourage anyone who wishes to live a life of sobriety! Heather
