No...I'm not getting a procedure (but I did once...oh let's save that for another day)
I made two good female friends in rehab. A "sober-buddy", if ya will. One (Nikki) who has gone on to a 90-day inpatient and we keep in touch. She wants to get into NA & AA when she gets out. Her female "sober buddy" is a mess, but Nikki knows that she will need a female sponsor sooner than later (I make her boyfriend nervous).
Then there's Chrissy. She has enjoyed having me keep tabs on her, lay down some guilt and basically be an uncle. She was not ready to go sober...until now. She had her DUI #2 right after the department of human services gave her their stamp-of-parental approval. She is in mid-custody battle, new boyfriend is an alkie/addict, blah blah, drama, drama. She called today. She said this is bottom and she's ready. She wants what We have.
Female sponsors are in short supply around here. We were buddies and now we're AAs. She reached out to the hand of AA.
Ladies especially...please tell me how to help her as an AA, keep a responsible distance, and not hurt her...feelings, while we hunt for a sponsor for her. Aside from hitting bottom, she's also realizing that her vajayjay is NOT her friend.
AQman...I've sponsor a couple women in recovery and draw a boundary at the start. I will work with them up till the 4th and not beyond. I treat them with the utmost respect, courtesy and compassion and keep in mind that "To my own self be true...means that I do nothing to trip up my own recovery." They and I are children of god...fragile human beings who have been insane and painfully hurt for a long time. I do nothing to increase the pain or take advantage of their lack of understanding. I do nothing to harm either Child of God...the woman and myself. I do not wish to break with God and so I inventory constantly while working with the female. They must do their 5th with another female...I insist and then at that point I break sponsorship. That has worked out for me and the sponsees in the past. Today the guys in my home group guide a newbie female or one without sponsorship toward the other females in our group and program. It is awesome to watch the local gals take care of each other and I'm taking notes cause that kind of caring helps longterm recovery.
I say it can be done, for me, with limitations and with a firm hold on my HP's coat tails.
I like that Jerry...I like it a lot. Up to #4 and no more... Thanks, man. That way they don't feel like AA is conditional on having a fem/fem starting point, but there is also no disclosures that may increase their pain.
I'm told that way back when I were a lad, there were very, very few sober female AAs in this coal mining town. I'm told this by some women who have seemingly been sober since Adam's balls dropped. They tell me that they had to have men sponsors, 'cos there wasn't enough women around. They tell me that they did not want to get emotionally entangled and neither did their sponsors. But the men didn't hide their female sponsees from their women and the women didn't hide their male sponsees from their men.
I wonder what it would be like now. I don't sponsor women - because I don't have to, there are lots of sober women in the fellowship in this coal mining town. I've had some women try to sponsor me - they wanted to save me - I've been hit on (13th stepped) by some women who were less sober in mind than they thought - by the grace of God and with a strong male sponsor, I have resisted these temptations.
temptation is always there, even if it's groundless, adultery can and does occur by fantasy.
So here's my self imposed rules for my interactions with women to whom I'm not married.
I do it all in the open. If I'm going to weight watchers with my sober, weight watcher buddy, or sharing a ride to a meeting with her, it's all done in the open. If I'm going round to a female fellow member to help fix their car, it's all done in the open. The moment that I think of doing anything secretively - that's when I'm off programme.
So I'm married, but separated. In my book that's still married. My wife knows by name and has met many of the female fellows of AA that I associate with. So does my Higher Power.
I made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understand him.
For me that means that all my thinking (Will) and all my doing (life) are turned face up to the light. Nothing is hidden.
As Johnny Cash said, 'what's done in the dark, will be brought to the light.' and 'Sooner or later God'll cut you down.'
In other words, keep on keeping things hidden, keep on doing dirty deeds in the dark, and you will be found out, and you will be cut down, and it will hurt. Keep things bathed in the light and you have nothing to fear. Living a fear free life is great.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
As I have stated on here, most of the folks in my AA fellowship are gay. Most people do choose to stick with same sex sponsors though and that is because you want your sponsor's experiences to match yours. It's not about avoiding sexually compromising situations and attraction to your sponsor. Nonetheless, there are many many cross gendered sponsor-sponsee matches. Both parties need to be serious about recovery and keeping it about recovery and it shouldn't matter that much.
I think a lot of women do much better with female sponsors because when they drank and used they often wound up experiencing sexual traumas, rapes, and other degrading experiences that left them not trusting men much.
I think a lot of men do better with male sponsors because they are already in a pattern of hiding the truth and hiding their feelings from their wives.
If these are not huge issues between said parties, it could work even though it's not the norm.
**PS - There are a couple of transgendered people in the fellowship too. Not sure what is best there? I think they sponsor each other but not sure how exactly that works lol.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Monday 17th of January 2011 07:22:53 AM
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I was intrigued by the only to step 4 suggestion - there's nuthin' in the book that says you have to share your defects with your sponsor - just another human being.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
I think Jerry's suggestion is very wise. Step 5 is an intimate occasion, sharing our innermost self with someone. A good sponsor accepts me unconditionally despite my defects, showing me what real love is. That is dangerous with a member of the opposite sex, in my experience.
You need to think about another female as well. Your wife. We can't do this stuff in such a way that it wrecks a marriage with a stable person that you love very very much. I know that you love your wife. I know she has her issues, for sure. But something about this concerns me. Not about you overstepping your boundaries.
I worry about your relationship with your wife in this.
I also worry about the female sponsee. I have been a wet-behind-the-ears young female in AA. One of our powers is manipulation. The other is dishonesty. I am concerned that without even realizing it, she may, in her brand-newness, become or already BE attracted to you more than for just sponsorship. You might laugh it off and give me a million reasons why you are CERTAIN that she is not, nor will be interested in you in that way, but remember that I have been the young sick chick hanging on to a few fantasies about the guy who's working that great program. I have overstepped my boundaries in the past, time and again. And it cause me embarrassment, it caused me to feel deep rejection, and it caused the guy to feel uncomfortable as hell. Some of us are very clever at masking this type of thing and then WHAM.
Even if sponsee is completely legit, I STILL worry about your relationship with your wife.
Here's an idea. You said there were FEW women able to sponsor in your area. But you didn't say NONE. I think you should make the rounds of any woman who has made good headway with the Steps and is working a good program, and tell her that a good female friend of yours desparately needs a sponsor right now, even if it is temporary. You CHOOSE someome to sponsor this female friend, for now. That's the way they used to do it back in the day, anyway, right?
I can't imagine that any woman working a good program would deny another woman at least a temporary sponsorship.
Just my take,grab what you like and leave the rest.
oh..... and I will tell you how I REALLY FEEL about it via other media!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-- Edited by jonijoni1 on Tuesday 18th of January 2011 05:13:23 AM
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Yah, my husband would be none to pleased if I told him I was sponsoring guys. Besides I wont do it anyways.
I understand the shortage of women in AA , let alone any women with a decent amount of sobriety or have experienced the spiritual awakening or worked the steps.
I dont know how large your AA membership is in your area, but seems to me there has got to be a lady or 2 somewhere that can step in and help these gals.
Currently on another AA website I am sponsoring women via the internet thru email. I get them started , we acquaint ourselves and I strongly encourage them to search for f2f women sponsors in the meetings that they are attending.
In my own experience of working the steps .. steps 1 & 2 went very fast as they are really merely a state of mind and step 3 didnt take long either, but I studied in my heart the 3rd step prayer and then started writing my grudge list which only took a few days, and then it was time to take the 5th. Dont want to sit on that 4th step to long before sharing it ya know?
Very, very valuable info from all. I spoke with MY sponsor today and he listened. He listened long enough that I started telling the truths inside the truths.
I wanna take care of her. I wanna build a safe brick birdhouse for my wounded friend to live in and keep her safe. It was one thing when she was my friend and she wasn't one of us yet. My only duty to her was friend-at-will. Once she reached out to Us, I wanted to help. More than that...I couldn't stand to see her suffer.
Sponsor stripped the veneer right off of that and laid it bare for me. I'm being selfless for selfish reasons. Enabling. Friggin' pride. It'll get me every time.
He said to surgically sever this connection. That feels wrong. He reluctantly agreed to let me ease out of the role of sponsor. I am to find her a female sponsor ASAP. He said that if she wants sobriety bad enough...she'll do whatever it takes.
I know. But fuck, man. I told her I'd be there for her. Now I'm one more man who's gonna let her down. This is gonna hurt. bad.
I'll wait a few days before I figure out what lesson I learned. Right now I just need to turn this emotional disturbance over to my HP.
Very, very valuable info from all. I spoke with MY sponsor today and he listened. He listened long enough that I started telling the truths inside the truths.
I wanna take care of her. I wanna build a safe brick birdhouse for my wounded friend to live in and keep her safe. It was one thing when she was my friend and she wasn't one of us yet. My only duty to her was friend-at-will. Once she reached out to Us, I wanted to help. More than that...I couldn't stand to see her suffer.
Sponsor stripped the veneer right off of that and laid it bare for me. I'm being selfless for selfish reasons. Enabling. Friggin' pride. It'll get me every time.
He said to surgically sever this connection. That feels wrong. He reluctantly agreed to let me ease out of the role of sponsor. I am to find her a female sponsor ASAP. He said that if she wants sobriety bad enough...she'll do whatever it takes.
I know. But fuck, man. I told her I'd be there for her. Now I'm one more man who's gonna let her down. This is gonna hurt. bad.
I'll wait a few days before I figure out what lesson I learned. Right now I just need to turn this emotional disturbance over to my HP.
Peace, Rob
Rob, I just wanted to reach out and say this is far and away the most honest, the most insightful, the furthest "advanced" share I have ever seen you make, you have come far my brother, this is your high water mark
I too have been in those shoes, I too have deluded myself that I could help when no one else could, THIS is why we don't sponsor the opposite sex, not because of some evil man in a trench coat waiting to take advantage of a vulnerable female (although that is one reason too) but because it touches our most primal instincts, instincts that lead us down the path to codependency and tangled murky relationships, she/they want a strong man to "take care of them" and we get to BE that strong man, especially when involved with a powerful woman at home that seems to hold us in disdain, that looks down on our alcoholism and sobriety, we get validation, we get to feel good about ourselves, we get to feel powerful, and smart, and brave, and helpful, and good looking, in short we get to feel like a man again, when all we get at home is a swift kick in the nads
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to decieve" especially when the deception we are running is on ourself, and "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
I have learned the hard way that "the rules" were around a long time before I came along, and that as much as I'd like, they generally speaking don't make an exception for me, that's why for me, when I meet a broken winged female bird I walk her up to the women, introduce her, and walk away just as fast as I can, not because I am heartless, not because I don't care, but because I DO care
I am only a "just another man who has let her down" if I rush in where angels fear to tread, if I am helping her with a hidden agenda, an agenda so hidden I don't even see it myself, THAT'S when I am being harmful, not by walking away, but by staying and enabling and co'ing her, then I am harming both of us
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I don't know the situation in every area of the country, but I would really frown on mixed gender sponsoring. It is a extreme No-No everywhere but the west coast I guess.
You said it yourself....how can we sponsor someone when we are constantly worried about "boundries" and what wifes/others think.
We all get more sympathy and never called on our BS when dealing with the opposite sex, you hurt a ladies feelings (a little), and it's a train wreck, you hurt a guy's feelings and it's just another day of honesty.
Just rarely see a women in the program grow who does not connect with the other women.
Of course we all help each other, but I think it would be better if she at least found a online or phone sponsor(female) or female therapist that knows the program
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Rob84 wrote:It is a extreme No-No everywhere but the west coast I guess. It's an extreme No-no here as well, AA here is hardcore, and appears to be directly descended from Clarence as opposed to New York
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Very, very valuable info from all. I spoke with MY sponsor today and he listened. He listened long enough that I started telling the truths inside the truths.
Man there's honesty for you, but it takes some digging to get at. Sometimes we do try to do the right things for the wrong reasosn. Last year you maybe wouldn't have thought about talking to your sponsor, never mind being hones, never mind sharing this lesson with us.
Progress and growth brother, progress and growth.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
"I know. But fuck, man. I told her I'd be there for her. Now I'm one more man who's gonna let her down. This is gonna hurt. bad."
I just want to share, that as a recovering woman, deep down....I held my own secret, sick and twisted ideas about the "friendship" I had with a man in the fellowship. Lin is right, deep down, I wanted a man to be there for me, the way my ex-husband never was.
When you feel guilty about disappointing her, my suggestion is to remember that she is sick too, she may not even be fully aware of her feelings. We alcoholics have a habit of reaching for the next feel-good thing. I went reaching for a man.
To me, there is nothing more attractive than a man with a Higher power. It got very, very confusing. Today, I stick with the female meetings. The old-timers tell me, "The men will pat your ass, and the women will save it."
Hope this helps.
-- Edited by gladlee on Thursday 20th of January 2011 09:11:56 AM
-- Edited by gladlee on Thursday 20th of January 2011 09:15:03 AM
I'm proud of you Rob. You ARE there for her. You are doing the best thing in her interest- getting her plugged in with a woman and bowing out as sponsor. That is the most loving, UNSELFISH thing I can imagine doing.
I am busy trying to sever something a little more intimate right now. It hurts. But more will be revealed, and as I move toward God's will little by little, I know that he has the power to take care of me, and CERTAINLY he will take care of him (in your case, "her") too, without my interference!!!!
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Rob, great sobriety in where you are today in these shares.
Just recently, I saw something similar in one of the groups that I go to: a sober, helpful guy, saying "I need to talk it over with my sponsor". This was in response to a very honest and dare I say it, earnest, similar request from a younger female. Similar advice from the sponsor. It's a program of growth.
Personally, I figure 70-odd years of AA wisdom about men sponsoring men and women sponsoring women is something that I won't try and second guess (second guessing didn't work out too well for 41 years of my life ;) ).
