Hey Pinkchip! lol... oh I love / had to giggle a bit at your rant - and I said very similar things when I started going to Alanon. I thought it was just a place for a bunch of bitter women to bitch about their alcoholics and I SO badly did not want to be one of them, didn't want that to be my life. I appreciate your bluntness and brutal honesty with no sugar coating.

As you mentioned, there's the saying: love the person and hate his disease. That saying has helped me a lot. Because, (as I'm sure most people on here are aware) active alcoholics do stupid shit all the time, they are not in their right minds, not thinking straight, ect, these are symptoms. If my husband had cancer and barfed (symptom) all over me, would I me mad at him? No, I wouldn't be. I know alcoholism is a unique disease in that the alcoholic has the power to put it in remission, but...same kinda thing.

The example of driving drunk with the kids in the car is a big one. I for one certainly would not be like: "ok hunny, that's fine you drove drunk with our daughter in the care cause I know it's just your disease acting up again, did you want pancakes for breakfast?"!! From my experience, most Alanoners aren't either - they learn to set boundaries.

When I found out AH drove drunk with my daughter in the car. I was FURIOUS and screamed at him and I definitely looked like a crazy person. (This was one of the incidents where I absolutely couldn't practice detachment and just not bring it up). So, I lost it, then, I had a new boundary: no driving with daughter in the car ever - and that she was no longer allowed to be at our house alone with him, if I wasn't home, she would be with my parents. Done.

I used to watch those talk shows, you know where the beaten wives would cry about their husbands beating them and abusing them constantly, I would think they were so stupid, why didn't they just leave, why did they stay and put up with it!!! Well, I get it now. (My AH has never laid a finger on me, btw). But, I still get it. You can't turn off your feelings and stop loving someone. There's history, the person probably didn't show their true colors for quite some time, at that point, you're in love, committed, have kids, financially dependent ect.. It's not so easy.

For me, I didn't have the typical wife of an alcoholic upbringing. I grew up upper middle class, a sister who was and is my best friend, great loving and supportive non addicted parents with good jobs, we went on trips, had fun, did family stuff, ect. It was picture perfect. I've never been a control freak, I've always been very laid back, easy going, go with the flow. I've been in relationships (not all but a couple) where, the guy either wasn't stepping up, he was hung up on the ex, he was too depressed but did nothing about it, he whined to much, he was a baby, needy, and so I left. I didn't feel the need to "fix it", not at all! I just said, your not ready for a relationship, get your shit together first, and I left.

With my AH, well, we were together for 6 years before things went bad and his drinking became clear. With my AH, aside from his drinking, he is the most caring, compassionate, loving, selfless (too a fault), thoughtful, sweet, nice, smart, sexy, helpful, ambitious person I have ever known. I know that guy is in there somewhere, I want him back, I miss him.

It's SO hard to just say "ok well your a drunk so see ya later". Getting there... it's a process. Just like alcoholics getting sober is a process.

Maybe that means there is something wrong with me and I should love myself more, who knows, but, up until recently, I've always loved myself - had my own life, hung out with friends, went out, went to the spa from time to time, pampered myself, blew off responsibilities for a night to be lazy and watch movies or read books, took the classes I wanted to take, worked my way up at my job, have a great career, - my life wasn't revolving around my husband. So, for me, it's so weird how all that just changed, seemingly overnight. My happiness was never dependent on other people, if AH was having a bad day, I'd think that sucked for him, but then I'd get on with it and do my thing, I wouldn't be brought down.

I guess since I don't have an alcoholic upbringing or had to step up and take charge in any way as a child, I have a different opinion, or I dunno.... I just, I'm a very self aware person, very open, and I don't think I was ever Codependent, not at all, not one bit. Sure, I am now, I suppose because I'm living with an alcoholic and when he's drunk or behaves like a baffoon it infuriates me, I let it get me down, but I think that MOST people (not just children of alcoholics or who had sick parents so they had to be caretakers as children), after 6 years of marriage to an absolutely wonderful husband who becomes an alcoholic, would not just leave right away either.

Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. But I remember talking about my past with my shrink and I feel like she really had to stretch to see where this codependency comes from.... like she expected me to say mom's an alcoholic, or dad was real sick so I had to raise my sister, but nope... so she kept digging and digging, then all she came up with after 3-4 sessions of talking about childhood and the past and chart and family tree drawing was that my mom let my cousin stay with us for a few months while he was going to school and apartment hunting in the city (his family lived in a small town 3 hours away) and then again that mom and dad helped me out cause I got pregnant at 18 and my mom let me stay and live in her house, and helped me out with child care while I was in university. Well, I think, what mother, who has a big huge house and the financial means to help her child, would not do it!!!! Would it have been better if she taught me a lesson and I lived on welfare in a ghetto apartment with the baby while going to school? Who knows. But I'm gonna say no. But, shrink said it taught me that "you are there for people when they need you to be". sure, ok. .. Isn't that what family does?? I know there's a limit... and a fine line between caring and enabling.

wow I'm rambling.

I'm at the point now, where I will leave (or, make AH leave) if AH relapses after rehab, I've been pushed to that point and feel I've put in so much work and tried the best I can, I can't live with him.... but, getting to that point, doesn't just happen over night.

I know I'm not obligated to stick around and watch because I took marriage vows. I needed to feel like I did everything I could do to be supportive, that I tried, didn't just give up.

Most importantly, no one at Alanon judges you - they are the only people in the whole universe who get it, who really do understand, who have been there. I feel comfortable, open, honest, I'm not scared that I'll say too much and they'll hate my AH (like I am when talking to family), or I'm not scared that I'll tell a particularly bad story and they'll judge and wonder why I haven't left him (as I'm sure some of my friends have done). They are the only people who get it.

Even if there was advice offered like: "trust me, leave him, it will only get worse, you'll be so much happier in a year" (which I know is true)... would I do it? nope. I'd only do it when I was ready... and that choice, that HUGE of a life choice, has to be yours, you have to own it, no one can "convince" you into it - just like I can't convince an alcoholic to get sober - they have to want it and come to that point on their own.

Hope this helped:)

Danielle

I appreciate your post Pink chip,however many people are really caught with this situation. I know the text book response might work best but for instance, I am a recovering A. My brother is a chronic A working away. My father, I am not really sure, and the latter was worried out of his mind about my brother over christmas. My program would tell me to leave it alone. However, my father who is elderly was really quite worried as he had no idea whether his son was ok. I decided after consultation with fellow AA members to ring around, leave a friendly message and just check up. All is well, thanks HP. The text book response would say, that is wrong, etc.I think every situation is very different and I don't think any of us can afford judgements as our primary purpose is to stay sober. We are so very lucky to be here and part of this. Two of our members from my homegroup died this week due to this disease. We are all heartbroken; one with twenty five years sobriety.

I've been in Alanon for quite a few years, although I've slacked off the last couple.  I'm probably more hard core than most.  As a sober alcoholic, I simply would not put up with an active alcoholic under my roof.  Period.  Not everyone has such a simple choice however.  Alanon is a recovery program for the families/friends of alcoholics - for themselves, not the alcoholic.  There is no requirement to dump the A.  It's not one of the steps.  In fact some of the people I know in Alanon with the strongest recovery are still living with their active alcoholic! 

One of the sad facts about Alanon is that it's not usually a life-or-death choice as it is for us alcoholics.  Alcohol can and will put an end to our misery if we keep going, but for the Alanon, the misery can be prolonged forever.  Whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not!  There is less self-incentive to work the program for yourself.

When I met my current wife and told her early on I was a sober alcoholic, she said she had no problem with that but if I were to start drinking again, she would want me gone.  I hope for her sake that is still true.  I did encourage her to go to Alanon, and we have gone separately and together, but not regularly the past year or so.  I'd like to get back on track there somehow.

Barisax

Hey Marc, youre not offending, no worries

Yep, that is a big difference between Alanon and family and friends. Alanon people just get it, they understand (similar to how I would imagine other alcoholics understand one another, an understanding that couldnt be found elsewhere). There are no judgments and no proclamations of unyielding belief, in the form of advice, of what the absolute best thing to do would be, such as: I would do this or that or you should do this coming from people who could never possibly begin to understand (no offense to my family and friends).

People never know what they would do in a situation having never had to live and experience said situation, they may speak with confidence and a total belief in what they would dobut, on some level, Im sure they themselves fear having the ability to carry that out.

As for someone saying they were scared to leave because their alcoholic would then have no reason to get sober was that from a newbie? I must have missed that thread. The person probably hasnt worked the first step (or was slipping) as by saying that they dont believe they are powerless to control their alcoholics drinking.

My husband, this is only his first (not second) time in rehab; he was in detox before that. Rehab is 28 days and he is coming home after, no halfway; although, if I could afford it, I would love for him to go to a halfway house. When the husband comes home, I will not be all hey honey, welcome back, youre all better now I take it, so we have that dinner party of Saturday, I need you to pick up a roast!. If fact, I expect him to be an anxious mess, scared of staying sober, scared of life, scared of the work he has to do, irritable and impatient. I do know he has the best of intentions and really WANTS to stay sober Ive seen progress, in his awareness, openness, his embracement of the AA program, and his ability to speak about painful past emotions, or lack of expressing them that is.

I also missed the posts about people saying AA doesnt work! WTF, I need to jump over to those boards and catch up! I think there are a lot of newer people there now, there are also more posts that usual Well, I can tell you what I think, I think AA works - Ive been to several open AA meetings, read parts of the Big Book, including the stories, and I know AA works if you work it, not half work it, not without giving yourself over and being fearless and honest.

Also, I think most people recognize they are in an unhealthy relationship. That lies and secrecy and the inability to rely on your partner are not common in normal healthy relationships that losing yourself, is not healthy. However, leaving a spouse doesnt always directly follow that realization. Just like getting sober and staying sober doesnt always follow the realization that you are an alcoholic.


I think your judgment (which I totally understand and take zero offense to) maybe comes from lack of understanding, or not being able to relate. Not dissimilar to how I initially judged my alcoholic husband: Why cant he just stop! What an idiot getting so sloppy and stupid and actually thinking people like him better this way! What an asshole for forgetting to do this or that, what kind of person acts like this, lies, how can someones character and personality change so much for the worse almost overnight! Ect. I totally judged him.then, I woke up, snapped out of denial, and learned about addiction, read tons of books, including lots of parts of the Big Book and the stories in it, and went to open AA meetings. Now, I dont judge him, I cant say I understand him or what hes going through, but I do sympathize, and Im no longer pissed off at the world constantly all day long.

I like the suggestion of Jerry to post on the Alanon boards and see what some of the old timers have to stay they are way smarter than me! ;)

Danielle

Okay...I can't keep reading those boards. It's just painful and it reminds me of my uncle and the way he terrorized my cousins and everyone else when he drank. I hurt myself way more than others (though I don't function under the illusion that my drinking only hurt me). I was not a bullying controlling rageaholic.

What is most upsetting is reading about a wife whose children have active signs of being traumatized. Enuresis and Encopresis (betwetting and incontinence) are hallmark signs of serious childhood trauma. How can a person insist they don't have a problem when alcohol turns them into such a monster that they cannot even see their own wife and children are terrified of them?

Sad. This is what I will think about when they say "A prayer for the still sick and suffering alcoholic in an outside these rooms" at the end of meetings.