I have been through Intensive Outpatient (IOP) therapy TWICE. I have been to an AA retreat. My boyfriend recently had an experience on an ecstacy like research chemical. He was crying because he said he could see that I hold on to resentments of other people. He said I play the victim by thinking the world is against me. He said I will never be happy until I LET GO of these resentments of others. I am disappointed that NOBODY in AA or IOP ever seemed to grasp that step 4 was exactly about that. I received pages of instructions on how to work your step 4. Most of them had to do with my character defects. The problem is that I have not forgiven others. Until I forgive, I will not be happy. I am disappointed that I was taught complete abstinence, when an experience on a substance that was originally used to help psychiatric patients (until the government decided that it would make people too aware) was the most helpful to me. Bill W. had tried Bella Donna therapy and said it didn't help. But I can see why it was given to alcoholics. Furthermore, I think psychedelics should be researched more instead of being criminalized. And, I would have NEVER drank 24 hours before I went to a meeting. I never did. But, now I have had a few drinks, read How It Works, and I GET IT!
generally speaking the steps worked better for me when I wasn't loaded
"understanding" and a spiritual experience is ultimately meaningless when I was loaded because when the drug was gone so was the spiritual experience, I drank and drugged to feel comfortable in my own skin, to have understanding, the steps are there to teach us how to live WITHOUT these crutches, I had many an epiphany, many an awakening, many a spiritual experience while drinking and drugggged up, and then I started chasing those experiences and my soul became empty and my life began falling apart around me, I didn't have a drinking or drug problem, I had an "interval" problem, the intervals between between being loaded when life would rear it's ugly and unfair head, the answer lay in the drinking or the drug until it didn't any more.
Wanna get sober? Far out, welcome, come say hi, come to a meeting, work the steps
Wanna get loaded?
Lotta places for that, this isn't one of them
I found that when I worked step 4 all my resentments that I truly "worked" were lifted, but that was true when I was loaded as well, but once again, when the drunk/drugs were gone so were my answers, another dead end
when drinking and "X" and other pharmocology and pharmaceuticals fail you for the last time come find us, we speak your language
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I am disappointed that NOBODY in AA or IOP ever seemed to grasp that step 4 was exactly about that. I received pages of instructions on how to work your step 4. Most of them had to do with my character defects. The problem is that I have not forgiven others. Until I forgive, I will not be happy.
The point is that by recognizing your character defects it helps you to forgive others because you see your part in the situations that caused the resentments. You recognize that it's not all their fault -- it's your fault too. By taking an honest look at the situation you learn to forgive yourself, and forgive them too.
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. I had a lot of clean and sober time before I got to this point in my life. I thought I had worked all the steps. It turns out that I had worked steps 1 - 3 pretty well. It takes more than that though. I knew and understood that I would not find true peace and sobriety if I was drinking and drugging all the time. I guess we go through phases of relapsing. I realize I am relapsing, but I'm not afraid of it like I used to be. This is a journey. I can give myself a break. I used to think it was taboo to do anything while "loaded". But now my definition of loaded has changed some. I don't feel guilty anymore if I read a book while drinking a glass of wine. It actually makes the experience more enjoyable. I don't mean to advocate use of alcohol and drugs for someone who is new or severely in need of recovery. Abstinence is very important. I had gotten into the habit of being sober and living amongst the "normal" folk. I have been a dry drunk. I had heard everyone say it takes years to recover. I thought I had it licked. And they always say, when you think you've got it licked, watch out. I am really grateful that I have reached this point spiritually in my recovery. I realize now that I did get myself into this position. My character flaws are not something to be ashamed about. I have moved on from most of them. The only ones that remain are the result of my feelings of resentment that my ego holds onto. I have been stuck in a pattern of victimization that is explained so eloquently in the How It Works chapter. I'm glad I held on to my AA and NA big books. I have had many successes since my "recovery". But I knew I should keep those books forever. I will pray for all of you. Please pray for me that I will be able to let go of my psychological pain.
Hello Bubles, I think what others (and myself) were eluding to is that you need to be clean and sober to work on yourself and do the steps. Part of the process is walking through the fear and pain. You can't do that if your're drinking. It would be like trying to fix your car while driving it down the street. Most of us didn't get to the jumping off point until one or more tragic things happened and we hit a bottom, or the fear of those things that haven't happened to us yet, got our attention.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 3rd of January 2011 01:06:44 PM
This is a big part of why I don't relapse. I have a healthy fear that it would become more and more "normal" to just give up and drink and then I would slide into a pattern of constant relapsing and craziness and not even realize it.
If you are reading the Big Book, try reading More about alcoholism. Relapses get worse, never better. We will never drink again like normal people. Some have chased this delusion to the point of insanity or death. Not trying to be rude....just sayin...
You are welcome here of course, but you know the main thing that unites us on a board like this and in AA in general is a desire to stop drinking....not a desire to be unafraid of drinking, relapsing, or persisting in the same self-delusion that got us into this in the first place.
Anyhow, I thought drugs and alcohol made me have brilliant ideas and profound conversations...that is the nature of the beast. Your idea about step 4 being about forgiveness and resentments rather than character defects is off. IT IS a character defect to not forgive people and hold onto resentments and to play victim. Hence, resentments, character defects, and forgiveness are all related and interconnected and it is part of doing a thorough self inventory. I don't think it was that people told you wrong when you did step 4 before. I think it was more likely an issue about being thorough and honest. It was pretty obvious to me that I'd been playing victim and acting like a baby for years when I did my step 4 and I'd be willing to be about 95 percent of us come to this realization in doing the steps. Not sure why this is such a surprise to you.
It does sound like you have some good knowledge about the program, but I have to agree things will fit together when you consistently work it sober. Curious to know if when you honestly look at your life whether or not the periods of longer term sobriety were better? Again, not trying to be rude here and I know this sounds real abrasive. Welcome to the board.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I too thought I had very spiritual and life altering experiences in the past with drugs and alcohol. The difference between then and now (after working the steps, particularly 4 and 5) is they didn't last. And then alcohol became first a psychological need and and then a physical necessity. Spritual and "profound" thoughts had long since disappeared.
I was thinking the other day when the inevitable "I can probably handle a couple" thought crept in, "what's my goal"? To drink "normally"? What purpose would that serve -- I never did that or even wanted to -- I wanted to drink to oblivion. And I know the depths that led me to. So for me, there is no "normal" drinking so why would I try.
The spirituality that I feel in my life now is on-going and part of me, not the creation of chemicals.
Years ago long before I got truly sober, I got the opportunity to go to a few open meetings of AA. Unfortunately though I thought I grasped the concepts very well and continued to drink for almost twenty years. I practised control, so I thought, and spouted a lot of AA that I had gleaned from the literature that I had been given. It is not the same as being abstinent or working at getting sober for me. I too am on step 4. I need to do this with a clear head. Why don't you try too?
How can there be a relapse if there's never any recovery? Maybe I missed something somewhere, but this thread makes no sense to me at all. Am I the only one confused as hell here???
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Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
lol....Im with Klaatu. Thought I was crazy there for a second. How can someone say they have done step 1-3 and have that down and think its ok to drink while reading a book because it is more pleasurable??????????? WHAT!!!! How can we even talk about step 4 ummm beep beep beep back up
I'm not going to comment on drinking while trying to work the steps, others have already.
But there is a real truth here, that I have to forgive others. The Big Book makes it clear that that a lot of other folks out there who were wrong.
But it basically says that we have to pray for them ("how can I be helpful to him, God save me from being angry"), to forgive them BEFORE we start to look at our own role in our resentments and our character defects. Certainly, my own experience was that none of Step 4 works, nor does Step 9, if I can't forgive those who have hurt me. I'd looked at my own part in everything, identified my character defects, heck, even made amends, but in many cases I was still angry with those who had hurt me. I'd missed that really elementary, probably obvious thing -- no fault of my sponsor, it really was just me.
It was me, because I used to think that the folks in the rooms who would say "pray for those who have hurt you, pray for their happiness, etc." were absolutely insane losers -- no way was I going to do that! Sure, I'll look for my own part, etc. but forgive? PRIDE, PRIDE!
Then I kind of realized that those folks were not drinking and were happy about it, while I was not drinking and was on razor's edge, being passive agressive all the time, pissed off internally. So I tried it -- and it's worked.
Hi bill recovered alcoholic, this was our course pare phrasing . I could not wish or will these resentments away any more than alcohol.powerless I could not stop squandering the hours that might have been worth while. Powerless . This was our course the world and its people really dominated me. Real or fancied they these resentments had the power to kill for when harboring these ill feelings I am blocked from the sun light of the spirit powerless. I become restless irretable and discontented . And I have to drink again.I what a realiation that I could not stop the way I think. No amount of self knowlege character or human thing could fix me and my disease. This was our course .it says that they LIKE OURSELVES are perhaps spiritually sick.thou we did not like the way this disturbed. They are sick we ask god to help us to be helpful and to save me from being angry.powerless . Because the grouch and the brainstorm will kill me more than picking it back up. Which I will do. After I was able to write out refering to the list again I put out of my mind what they did and wrote out. Where was I at fault . And was willing to set those wrongs right. The futilty and falality of these re feels will kill me . So know that I am armed with facts about a 4 th step I get armed with the facts about me after I. Write out my grosser handicaps .and then tell my whole life story.I do mine with my sponsor so that he is armed with the facts about me so he can help save my life . With the truth about me.thank god for a 12 step program
