I was wondering if some of you can please share your experience, strength, insights with me.
Background: My AH is in the health care profession, he's smart, educated, he used to be the one teaching coping skills to the addicts, now, he's the one listening.
AH was suicidal and spend 2.5 weeks in a psych ward back in september-october. He in now on Effexor for anxiety and depression and takes a low dose of Seroquil before bed to sleep. Why his psyciatrist would prescribe Effexor (a drug that makes people crave alcohol) to an active A is beyond me. Psyciatrists know absolutely nothing about addiction - he told my husband about a program that teaches people with anxiety to drink like normal people! ugg, I was beyond frustrated!
Anyway, about 2-3 days after being home from the pysch ward, AH's started drinking again. 3 weeks after that, he started drinking a huge bottle of vodka a day and almost died by falling off a clif as he had no idea where he was or what was going on - this happened at noon, my sister and I had to yank him back, basically save his life, then listen to him become beligerent, wondering why we were 'hurting' him.
After that, AH admitted he was an A, that he couldn't ever drink again, started going to AA every day, got a sponsor, and registered for the outpatient absitence program through the Addictions Foundation. (doing all the right things, going through all the right motions, yet, not committing. not surrendering).
AH was still drinking. AH would do his Addictions Foundation homework while drunk, he's so smart and knows the 'system' that what he wrote sounded so brilliant, like he was making progress, like he understood ect... He fooled everyone, doctors, shrinks, social workers, phsyciatrists, addictions councellors, his friends, he fooled everyone but me and his sponsor.
He would be drunk and go to AA meetings, he would go to AA sober, then come home and get hammered.
AH got fired from his health care job, he had a chance to get this job back, he didn't care, he wrote the letters and got the doctors notes he needed to get (to appease me) but wouldn't send anything in - very quickly, the ONLY thing he cared about, was drinking.
His drinking went from bad to worse to life or death within a month.
AH started working another part time job, respite work, with a kid with a disability (this is what he used to do before he went back to school). He was working with a family he's know for 10 years. They are close. Anyway, so AH got so drunk at work, at this family's house, he passed out on a bathroom floor. His employers (the mom and dad) found him there and thought he was dead.
The dad told me he shaked AH really hard for 3 minutes and then finally he 'came around'... he was about to do CPR. They had called 911. The mom told me AH was really confused, incoherent, ect. when he came around, then eventually he started telling them he was ok.. eventually the mom told him to sit there and shut up and he's not ok. Mom called me, told me what happened, asked what this could be.
I told her AH was an alcoholic.
AH went to the hospital in an ambulance. Doctors told him he was killing himself, he almost died.
AH came home the next day, frozen, cold, crying, scared, embarassed, fell to the ground and told me he didn't want to live like this anymore, he wants a life, he wants to live, for the first time he thought to himself: "I don't want to die".
After we hugged and I told him I loved him, I asked AH, "ok, so what are you going to do differently".
AH said he wanted to go see his sponsor. So, I dropped him off at sponsors house. An hour later, his sponsor called me. He told me that although AH isn't withdrawing so bad right now, he is not thinking clearly at all. The sponsor told me he thinks AH needs detox. Told us how to get the ball rolling with that.
AH and I chatted, AH told me he trusts his sponsor...he probably knows best, so he will go to detox. I wanted him to go to detox too. (This was all about a week before Christmas).
AH wrote a facebook message to all his friends and family before he went to detox, told all of them what was going on with him (minimizing of course or at least not going into detail) but still told everyone how he's an A, how he has cause irreversable damage in our lives, how he needs to work on himself before he can be a husband, father, friend ect..
So, AH checked into detox December 22. Detox is 10 days then he will go to a 28 day rehab program.
AH calls me every day, he sounds better than I have heard him sound in years. He makes sense, he's not mummbling and slurring and talking slow, he can think, reason, be rational. I was really floored when I heard him for the first time.
So now AH tells me all these great things. He's reading, writting, learning, growing, this is what he needs to do, ect.. All makes such sense! He sounds like he's really waking up to the horrible reality he's created for himself.
AH called me last night and told me he was down, his sponsor was busy, so he just wanted to talk. He told me he's feeling all these things now and it's uncomfortable, he's paranoid. He told me he's scared that I'm just pretending to love him, that as soon as it's not minus a hundred outside, I'll kick him out. He said he is overwhelmed with everything that lies ahead, that he wants to fix everything or make all the progress all at once.
So, I guess I'm just trying to understand what he's going though... any thoughts/experience??
Also, AH is in the health care field, he knows his stuff, so a part of me also wonders... is he BS'ing me? Just saying all the right stuff thinking I'll be thrown off his plan of coming home and drinking again? ? Is AH just, again, going through the motions, detox, rehab, to appease me, secretly planning to drink when he gets home? AH is a people please...so I wonder.. Is he doing this ONLY because he thinks it'll keep me from kicking him out??
I know I shouldn't think like that, live for today, focus on me... I know, I go to Alanon, I've read all the books, but, well, it crosses my mind.
I told AH last night that I love him, that I want a life together, and the ONLY way that'll happen is if he stays sober. AH knows, if he drinks again, he is out of this house. I told his mom that, she knows, he knows, every one knows now. AH is well aware I am completely done with his behavior and if he drinks again, he's out.
Any sharing of thoughts/experience would be much appreciated.
Danielle, Sometimes we A's have the best of intentions, and think we are ready to quit when we really aren't. Denial is a big part of this disease. But on the same token, some people who enter rehab with no intention of staying sober end up being the ones who do stay sober and never drink again. No one, often not even the alcoholic entering treatment, knows if he or she will remain sober after treatment. That's why recovery is a "one day at a time" deal.
Give it some time. Let him get to the rehab center and see how he gets on with that. I'm glad to hear he already has a sponsor and has been to some meetings. Be glad that you know where he is today, and that you know he's sober today. One day at a time. Try not to worry about the future.
In the meantime, I am also glad to hear that you are in Alanon. That program has saved the lives and the sanity of people in my family.
Take care and know that prayers are being sent your way.
joni
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
I was working as a substance abuse therapist and getting drunk almost daily at the same time. Your husband is NOT so unique. It was a HUGE blow to my ego to have to admit I had a very real drinking problem. However, this ego smashing process is necessary and it is outlined in the big book. I don't know why it took me until my mid 30s to hit bottom (probably because of being a supreme bullshitter and enlisting tireless enablers)....but it did take that long to cut through my denial.
The part of my brain that digests other people's problems and generates solutions for them always worked pretty well.... However, the part that generated solutions to my own problems was completely busted. My ability to rationalize and intellectualize went haywire and it allowed my addiction to grow more and more. In AA, nobody gives a crap if your husband is a therapist, lawyer, a doctor....whatever. I have met janitors that knew more about sobriety than I do. He will definitely need to humble himself. I am sure that part of him really wants to get sober, but he has to accept that he has an illness that is never going away and he cannot drink like a normal person. I think when you wrote before, I stated that "to stop drinking, sometime a person has to....STOP DRINKING!" With all those degrees and experience in mental health and your husband could not figure this most simple thing out?? When I look back on how I was and what I used to think...I know now that the way I perceived myself showed an appalling lack of perspective. I was so emotionally insecure, immature, I wanted constant reassurance from everyone else (briliant, smart, a good worker) and I could never ever get enough. I was dependent and a drain on all my loved ones and I justified that this was okay because I was in a field where I helped others all day every day.
I am guessing your husband is at a similar spot right now. If he is thorough, honest, open minded, and willing, he will grow into the man he is supposed to be...but it takes work, faith, and it takes TIME.
Also, I take effexor and it does not make me crave alcohol and never has in any way shape or form. I don't know where you got that information but it is not correct. Some people might have written that as an excuse for their relapses, but you have to understand pharmacological research. Alcoholics are more likely to take antidepressants, so therefore there will be a higher likelihood of people drinking who take that medication. They say antidepressants cause people to be suicidal too but that is only because depressed people who are suicidal take those meds. If your husband tried to tell you he relapsed or kept drinking cuz of effexor, that is a load of crap. Correlation does not equal causation. Also, there are some programs out there that teach controlled drinking. People legitimately do research on this. I never wanted to be a guinea pig in a program like that and when I realized fully and came to terms with what alcohol did to me as a person, I knew that only full abstinence from it was for me. Prior to coming to AA, I always had a large chip on my shoulder, I was trained at diagnosing and commenting on others' pathology. I judged people, but I never fit in with them, yet I always wanted to belong. I don't know if that make sense. It is only in AA that I have found the key for how to fit in with a bunch of other recovering people, and then the world in general.
Your husband needs to radically change his way of thinking about a lot of things. While I knew I was intellectually smart, empathic, and a good therapist, I also knew on a deep level that I was screwy, was a big needy baby, and had to learn coping skills for dealing with my own life from other alcoholics. It is not such a connundrum and your husband has to fully come to terms with this (STEP 1).
For you....I don't know what to tell you exactly. You are in for a ride no matter what. If he stays sober, it will be an arduous process of self discovery for him. I went through a period of being even more selfish and self-absorbed for a while because I had no alcohol to shut my brain off from thinking about myself. There may be times you wish he would go back to drinking cuz he will be moody, fly off the handle, have little tantrums, act like he deserves a medal for doing simple crap that ordinary men and women do every day. This is the process of getting sober. Are you in for it? I am sure you didn't gamble on this when you said "in sickness and in health." All this crap may be worth putting up with, IF and only IF he stays the course because it certainly is beautiful to watch a person recover and then start to help others.
If your husband wants to talk to me, you can PM me and I would be willing to do that when he is out of detox and available. I am not a person who would be best suited to help you, because in this capacity (in AA) I am primarily here to help other alcoholics. I do hope this helps some though. I understand some of what you are going through with having an alcoholic partner cuz I went through that too. But what I did in that circumstance was leave...so there you have it.
In support,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Mark, thanks, for your offer to help...I will pass that along to the husband and well, it's up to him what he does with it.
Wow, your reply and insight and experience just means so much to me, thanks for sharing....
I was researching effexor and came across a website where I read it caused, in some people, craving for alcohol...some of these people were A's, some were not... they all spoke about how after starting effexor, they craved alcohol.
Although, I'm sure I could find any 'side effects' I want to find for any antidepressent on the internet. I understand correlation does not equal causation.. Makes sense. That was just a sidebar anyway, I mean, he was going to drink regardless.
Nope, AH never blamed his drinking on taking Effexor.
I fully understand the ride I'm in for regardless. I have heard so many stories, from big book and AA meetings, of the ride the recovering alcoholic goes through. I am prepared for this, yep.
My AH already thinks he deserves awards for shoveling snow, taking out the trash, ect... This doesn't even hardly bother me anymore. I am a hell of a lot better at focusing on my self and when he throws himself pity parties, I tell him that's what he's doing, and leave the room. When he's sober, he'll recognize this, apologize, and tell me he realized what he was doing. Sometimes he'll throw himself a pity party while apologizing for needing to have said pity party.
AH is a huge baby, whiny, very sensitive, a lot of the time when he is actually sober. He has started at least recognizing this behavior, or, at least, tells me so. But, who knows, he could just be saying that to me but not really meaning it, not really understanding or seeing himself clearly...
I love him, I want him to recover more than anything .. . he's a great guy. I miss that person. But, I have been to hell and back so many times, I'm just done. If he drinks again, he's out cause I cannot live with that person anymore.
Anyway, thanks for your reply, I was really looking forward to it and you did not disappoint. :)
How do you (recovering A's) know when the still suffering A is actually telling the truth? Being honest? Seeing himself clearly and not just saying what he knows are the right words to say?
Danielle
-- Edited by workingout on Thursday 30th of December 2010 01:01:22 PM
-- Edited by workingout on Thursday 30th of December 2010 01:02:08 PM
Hi Danielle,I understand the pain, frustration, hopelessness,ect. all too well. I am what what you in alanon call a double winner. The truth about all your questions is that no one can really know. For the real alcoholic, knowlage dont mean squat. This thing is not about knowing right from wrong. Most of us all ready know and that makes it all the more worse, and when that happens, we drink for the sickest reason, we drink to forget our drinking. Our big book say's and its the experience of manny of us in AA that we suffer from an illness that ONLY a spiritual experience will conquer,and thats because its a spiritual malady and not about good or bad or knowing right from wrong.
Something that I realized through sponsership was the difference between the alcoholic and the normal drinker, ( there are many, but this one might help you to undestand a little more). Usualy, when a normal drinker takes a few drinks and they start to feel it, they get a feeling like thier loosing control. When I take a few drinks and start to feel it, I get a feeling like I;m about to get control. I have spent most of my life when I wasnt drinking like I was spiraling out of control, and only a few drinks would do anything to stop that. When it got to the point of almost killing me, the thought of never having booze scared me to death. I didnt know it at the time, but I was scared to death cause I felt like I would never feel normal ever again. I had a death grip on the very thing that was killing me. For the REAL ALCOHOLIC, alcohol is not the problem, its our solution that stoped working, and only getting to the jumping off place will get our attention. but not allways, the sad fact is that most alcoholics die from this disease, because they have such a delution that some day it will work, they refuse to do things ( abtinence, 12 step work,lots of meetings ) that they dont believe will work. After I got sober and got back intouch with my dad who is not alcoholic, he would ask me if there was something he could have done better that would have gotton me to stop. Or he would say, if you saw your self going down the tubes, why wouldnt you just stop.Really good questions for a non alcohoic. I said to him, pop nothing you or anyone else could have stoped what was happing. If you knew how i felt when I didnt drink, you would know why I drank. He kinda got it. But it didnt matter if he did or he didnt, I HAD TO GET IT .
Here is something out of our big book that may be that of help also. Chapter 11
A VISION FOR YOU FOR MOST normal folks, drinking means conviviality, companionship and colorful imagination. It means release from care, boredom and worry. It is joyous intimacy with friends and a feeling that life is good. But not so with us in those last days of heavy drinking. The old pleasures were gone. They were but memories. Never could we recapture the great moments of the past. There was an insistent yearning to enjoy life as we once did and a heartbreaking obsession that some new miracle of control would enable us to do it. There was always one more attempt-and one more failure.The less people tolerated us, the more we withdrew from society, from life itself. As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm, the chilling vapor that is loneliness settled down. It thickened, ever becoming blacker. Some of us sought out sordid places, hoping to find understanding companionship and approval. Momentarily we did-then would come oblivion and the awful awakening to face the hideous Four Horsemen - Terror, Bewilderment, Frustration, Despair. Unhappy drinkers who read this page will understand!Now and then a serious drinker, being dry at the moment says, "I dont miss it at all. Feel better. Work better. Having a better time." As ex-problem drink ers, we smile at such a sally. We know our friend is like a boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits. He fools himself. Inwardly he would give anything to take half a dozen drinks and get away with them. He will presently try the old game again, for he isnt happy about his sobriety. He cannot picture life without alcohol. Some day he will be unable to imagine life either with alcohol or without it. Then he will know loneliness such as few do. He will be at the jumping-off place. He will wish for the end.We have shown how we got out from under. You say, "Yes, Im willing. But am I to be consigned to a life where I shall be stupid, boring and glum, like some righteous people I see? I know I must get along without liquor, but how can I? Have you a sufficient substitute?"Yes, there is a substitute and it is vastly more than that. It is a fellowship in Alcoholics Anonymous. There you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you.
I'm learning in alanon that I gotta take care of me cause no one else will. Its also helping me to do the detachment thing with love and not amputation with contemp. I truly hope GOD gives you the serenity to deal with what you have on your plate, no matter what happens.
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
Hey Billy, thanks. My husband has said those words to me. That the mere thought of never ever drinking again scared him to death. That it's so overwhelming to think that he'll never drink again. So, what did he do, he drank again, and again, and again, till he drank himself half dead into a hospital.
I have learnt to let go of my anger and resentment (most of the time) and love the man and hate the disease.
I feel so much compassion toward him and feel so sorry for him, living in fear, feeling the way he feels, so down and helpless and depressed in such despair, all the time. Not knowing how to cope, so turning to the only thing he knows, the thing he knows, at least on some level, will only make it worse, yet denial is huge and the pain is so bad, that he sees no other way.
Hi, How do you (recovering A's) know when the still suffering A is actually telling the truth? Being honest? Seeing himself clearly and not just saying what he knows are the right words to say? In answer to your question for me it is this. ( By The way My name is Wayne T. and I am an Alcoholic, I also am a Member of Al-Anon. ) It is not so much what I say as much as it is what I do. What I say needs to match what I do. With consistency. I do use that a a guide in my trust level with others. I appreciate your courage. Wayne T.
I can't add too much to what has been said here except that, early in recovery, his emotions will be all over the place. My brain was mush for two weeks when I dropped the booze and I had ridiculous mood swings for another 1-2 months. So maybe don't take any strident statements he makes too seriously.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
You said you had read all the Alanon books, I don't know if that includes the Big Book of AA, but if not I think that would help you understand him better. Here it is online for free, or you can order it from Amazon or anywhere: http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm
