I have posted before here about my BF and getting sober. Anyway...long story SHORT- he has been sober for 3 weeks now and doing very well. A whole new attitude and has been taking antabuse every day.
Since he has been sober we have had NO SEX whatsoever. Ive said something to him but he has said things like- "I guess im not feeling normal yet" and "I dont know whats going on as to why I have no sex drive". I dont mean to sound selfish but this is a HUGE problem for me. Now I feel like I dont want to bring it up b/c if he does have sex with me, he will be just doing it bc I said something. I feel like hes like all of a sudden not attracted to me anymore or something! Like all of a sudden get sober and go from alot of sex to NO sex. This happened the last time he was sober too, but it was only for like a week but we didnt have sex then either! WHAT GIVES?!?!? Advice? Am I selfish? I just feel like I came from a sex-less relationship for a LONNNGG time and now I just want what i want!!!
Took me over a year to even consider it anything more than a "chore" just to please the wife. If I'm honest, I had more important things to focus on. I have spoke to others in the program that were the same way, and some just the opposite. I understand that you want what you want, but his sobriety should be, and NEEDS to be his number 1 priority. If your truly happy for him and want him to stay sober, then you shouldn't want to be so selfish. Support him and respect his decisions. Also accept that if he stays sober he will change into someone you don't know...it's inevitable. In our program, we are told that expectations are the start of a resentment. For me to have any resentments is to die. The only thing I expect today is that things will always change. I won't/don't give advice, but if the tables were turned and I was in your shoes, there's no way I would bring it up, but maybe that's because I know how much harm it could do. The choice is yours, but be prepared for allot of very big changes.
B....
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Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
Your not the first one that has said that, I have a friend that told me if I want him to stay sober and keep going in the right direction, to basically shut my mouth and deal with it. I just wish someone could have some compassion for me, and that this is like a WHOLE OTHER person I am dealing with now and life has changed. I want him to stay sober...so I guess Ill deal...
Whats funny is he also said he sees it as like a chore. But cant explain why?? Whats the reason though? Like what is going in INSIDE that doing this is a chore but he doesnt seem lazy in other ways (examples loves to cook n clean n play with the kids). He also said when I brought it up to him that he just feels like he isnt sure he knows HOW to be in a relationship but knows he loves being around me so he is just confused. IDK- Just trying to get insight into this, seeing as he is pretty quiet and doesnt explain much. He said he cant explain it because he doesnt FEEL like he needs to drink, he feels like he is getting better but still not normal.
There are probably all sorts of chemical changes going on with the antibuse, with getting sober, and maybe in some mild depression that could cause a loss of libido. Some folks need to entirely learn to have sex sober because they were always drunk when it occurred before. Hence, it feels awkward, too close....too intimate. Also, it's hard to stop your mind from whirling in the first few months of sobriety. So...even when having sex you might have intrusive thoughts that will cause you to lose your mojo...This could be something going on with him too. Your best bet is to just be supportive. You don't want to be percieved as one that nags when he drinks and nags when he's sober too. Keep open that you might not be meant for each other and he will change a lot if he stays sober.
You have to ask yourself if this relationship is satisfying you and meeting your needs in the big scheme of things or are you just pathologically wrapped up in fixing him, nursing him back to health, mothering him, and monitoring every little part of his recovery. Let him be and focus on yourself. Go to some CoDA and/or Alanon meetings.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
When we take alcohol out of the equation, our brains suddenly have a huge WTF moment. The alcohol we put into our bodies changed what and how much of the chemicals our brain naturally produces. Take away the alcohol and the brain get confused and tends to go into "panic" mode. Like a "holy shit, I gotta start making more of this, less of that, and figure out how to do it all in the right amounts." That takes time. Everyone is different, and amounts we drank can be a key factor as well. Remember that alcohol is poison...our bodies don't like it or want it. What do you think would happen if he was ingesting small amounts of arsenic for a long period of time? His body is gonna be messed up, and try to compensate for the crap he's puttin' in. Now he's no longer puttin' it in, so the brain has to adjust. Fortunately our brains can "remember" how and what it was doing before we started poisoning it. Give it time, and try to practice a little unconditional understanding, but like I said earlier, expect some changes and learn how to change along with him.
B....
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Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
You have to ask yourself if this relationship is satisfying you and meeting your needs in the big scheme of things or are you just pathologically wrapped up in fixing him, nursing him back to health, mothering him, and monitoring every little part of his recovery. Let him be and focus on yourself. Go to some CoDA and/or Alanon meetings.
Well put Mark.
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Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
Well I def dont want to mother, nurture, or monitor him....and maybe thats why i am even QUESTIONING this if that makes sense? IDK. I want my own needs met. I am understanding that it may not happen right now, and even these couple of posts have been great in making me think. AND UR RIGHT- I keep thinking maybe we arent meant/going to be meant for each other. I will feel so awful telling him that though b/c I dont want him to think I am saying hey u suck when ur sober! IDK this whole thing makes me stuck between MY needs and HIS needs
Well I def dont want to mother, nurture, or monitor him....and maybe thats why i am even QUESTIONING this if that makes sense? IDK. I want my own needs met. I am understanding that it may not happen right now, and even these couple of posts have been great in making me think. AND UR RIGHT- I keep thinking maybe we arent meant/going to be meant for each other. I will feel so awful telling him that though b/c I dont want him to think I am saying hey u suck when ur sober! IDK this whole thing makes me stuck between MY needs and HIS needs
No need to be stuck between needs...Your are yours and his are his. No need to make it any more complicated than that.
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Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
So but I am stuck bc I feel like in my OWN life that I have gone so long in a sex-less relationship (a previous long relationship) that I really dont want to do it again...and then Im stuck with thinking I need to stick it out because maybe it will work out. Oh and yes, 3 weeks may not seem like much but when u go from every day to nothing with no end in sight- its alot.
So but I am stuck bc I feel like in my OWN life that I have gone so long in a sex-less relationship (a previous long relationship) that I really dont want to do it again...and then Im stuck with thinking I need to stick it out because maybe it will work out. Oh and yes, 3 weeks may not seem like much but when u go from every day to nothing with no end in sight- its alot.
One tool of recovery is "The three A's"
Awareness Acceptance Action
You have been given your answers, by your boyfriend, by Pink, by Dean, by Rainspa, and by Klaatu, you just don't like the answers given, hence you don't -accept- the answers given
So you have awareness but not acceptance
acceptance is the situation is what it is, not what you want it to be, which apparently is subject to change according to your posts anyway, first he drank every day and you were unhappy with that and went on and on about how you -needed- him to quit
now you find there were aspects of his getting a heat on every day you quite enjoyed, now you want those aspects back, you -need- them back, you even call them -needs-
so at what point are you going to accept this man how he is and stop making him jump through the hoop of your -needs- which change anyway?
what -action- are you willing to take in order to get your -needs- met by another human being who you think -needs- to keep changing in order to meet your -needs- because your -needs- keep changing?
I personally called that jumping through the moving hoop of ever decreasing diameter, I called out a 14 year old girl (my friends daughter) on that behavior and even she admitted it was unfair, unhealthy and immature, and then we ROFL'ed but still, 14 year olds know better then this
The answers can be found in meetings of CODA, Al-anon, and literature such as written by Toby Rice Drew, Melody Beatty, Pia Melody, John Bradshaw
You've been given your answers, up to you what you do with them, and just kind of by the way, as was stated in your previous thread when alcoholics sober up, if they get healthy they leave their unhealthy relationships, and one thing that is written in stone in the recovery world is the mathematical axiom "If nothing changes, nothing changes"
what that means is if I give up my current drug of choice (your boyfriend in this case) and don't work on myself, I will go right out and get another JUST LIKE HIM, and then there I am, finger pointing and blaming and wondering why there are no good healthy mates in the world, when the simple truth of the matter is like attracts like, we pick people just as healthy as we are
the answer I found most helpful was "put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror" because that is where the problem is
every. single. time.
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 02:02:39 PM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
OK so let me get this straight---Im the problem... OK. LOL. Guess u coulda saved ur fingers some work and just wrote that.
I'll deal.
AND where exactly is it saying that Im not accepting what they are telling me?? i am just adding feelings to it. I guess I shouldnt feel/want/need anything. Him and I should just live, ya know, side by side, not saying anything or just talk about the fricken weather b/c maybe he just cant handle anything.
-- Edited by boydscollector78 on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 02:08:01 PM
From my experience both people involved in an Alcoholic relationship have symptoms that are not normal or healthy that need to be addressed. The Alcoholic as well as the partner in the relationship. Both suffer from underlying causes and a Spiritual Malady that only a Spiritual Awakening can arrest, but not cure.
The good news is AA helps the Alcoholic and Alanon helps the partner. Both have programs with Steps toward a Spiritual Awakening. A Spiritual Awakening is basically a psychic change and the way and individual views and feels about life. Once the Spiritual Awakening occurs we have a daily reprieve based upon the maintenance of this Spritual condition. What that means is we continue to work the Steps in our lives and pass it on to newcomers who come along. They both are programs of continuous action..... The results are the Promises- a new freedom and new happiness etc...........
OK so let me get this straight---Im the problem... OK. LOL. Guess u coulda saved ur fingers some work and just wrote that.
I'll deal.
AND where exactly is it saying that Im not accepting what they are telling me?? i am just adding feelings to it. I guess I shouldnt feel/want/need anything. Him and I should just live, ya know, side by side, not saying anything or just talk about the fricken weather b/c maybe he just cant handle anything.
-- Edited by boydscollector78 on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 02:08:01 PM
Let me try to clarify
my problem might have your name on it, but the solution has to have my name on it
If I have a problem with something, it's MY problem, so I am the one that has to come up with a working solution, and what I have painfully learned is if that solution relies on someone else changing or doing something different, I am in for a world of suffering
the answers you seek are found in the literature and programs I mentioned, this is a place for alcoholics that want to get sober, and what every alcoholic that has gotten sober says is both partners need to change, both partners need to seek some sort of recovery whether it be therapy, literature, or a program
Last time you were here your position was "if he only quits drinking, everything will be OK, his drinking is the problem"
OK, well he quit, now the problem is while he was drinking he liked to do the horizontal bop on a daily basis, now it turns out he had to get liquored up in order to jig jig
whens it end?
you deserve happiness, you deserve to get your physical and emotional needs met, but in my experience, until we address our OWN issues we just keep going to the same old tired sad dry and sometimes poisonous well for our water, then we get angry and blame the well
that's all well and good, but if I keep going back to the same well, who's fault is it? what's that shame on you shame on me saying? and until we learn new tools we just keep picking the same kinds of well, we keep going to the hardware store for bread
The following was written by a therapist in reference to a woman who has taken back her alcoholic husband.
"Suddenly a strange idea begins to dawn; maybe this woman endures her husband's mistreatment, and even seeks it out, for the very pleasure of talking about it. But what would be the nature of such pleasure? THe therapist remembers the woman's self-righteousness. Could it be that the most important thing in the woman's life is to have a sense of moral superiority and that in order to maintain this sense she needs to be mistreated? The nature of the pattern now becomes clear. By allowing herself to be treated basely she can feel superior. Ultimately, she can even have the sadistic pleasure of seeing her husband beg and plead to return, and momentarily acknowldege her superiority from his humbled position, while she decides whether or not to magnanimously take him back. And in this moment she achieves her revenge. When such women are examined it is generally found that they were particularly humiliated as children. As a result, they seek revenge through their sense of moral superiority, which requires repeated humiliation and mistreatment. If the world is treating us well, we have no need to avenge ourselves on it. If seeking revenge is our goal in life, we will have to see to it that the world treats us badly in order to justify our goal. Masochists look on their submission to mistreatment as love, wheeas in fact it is a necessity in their never-ceasing search for revenge and it is basically motivated by hatred. " The issue of masochism highlights still another very major misconception about love - that it is self-sacrifice. By virtue of this belief the prototypical masochist was enabled to see her tolerance of mistreatment as self-sacrifice and hence as love, and therefore did not have to acknowledge her hatred. ...Whenever we think of ourselves as doing something for someone else, we are in some way denying our own responsibility."
This was written by a woman who finally began looking at her own behavior in response to this
Oh, wow. I was picked on endlessly as a child. I was tripped and called names and pushed and teased. Perhaps everyone was. I know it hurt me deeply. I took on my moral kindness as a badge of honor. No matter how mean they were, I was more nice as they were more mean. It made me better than them. It made me good while they were bad. It made the awfulness of being picked on okay (kind of). It was a way to make sense of it. No one protected me against all the meanies. I was powerless. It made school awful, often. I felt very alone and out of control. But I had the righteousness of martyrdom. I felt blameless and picked on for no reason. So while being so picked on made me feel unloved and unloveable, my own martyrdom was a way of counteracting my feelings of worthlessness by me telling myself that I was BETTER THAN all of them! I think, as painful as it is to admit, I DO get a lot of "juice" from telling how "bad" he is to others. I get such a good feeling of validation from telling his "badness" and having people say how crummy it is and what a strong person I am to be dealing with it. I get attention. I get validation. I get to feel morally superior. The more detached I can be and compassionate about his situation the more "good" I feel. The more out of control he is, the more in control I feel. (At least I am keeping my cool. At least I am not berating him. At least I am not raising my voice. He is obviously the one causing the problems here.) Perhaps I get my self worth in comparison to his lack of his own self worth.
So what if we would create these situations where we hurt each other somehow so we could play out these scenarios? to make what we were doing familiar?
what if this was the reason for the neverending difficulties?
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I am thankful for your replies and I have read them and will go back and re-read them. BUT I just wanted to say something...I thought if he did quit drinking all would be fine and dandy. I didnt realize he needed to get liquored up to do the jig jig. Obviously I wouldnt know until now because he has never been THIS sober.
Like I said- whatever Ill just deal. Seems like I guess I should be putting my feelings on the back burner...funny thing is Ive been doing that for SO long and now Im finally ready to say I want this n I want that...and it backfires b/c its selfish. Hey whatever I can do what I have been doing my whole life and Ill just wait n see what happens.
see that's just it, no need to put your feelings on the back burner, that's why one reads that literature and goes to those programs is to find out what -needs- are healthy, how to express our -needs- in a healthy way, how to set healthy boundaries, how to spot red flags both in ourselves and others, how to CHANGE these things
it's not "you are wrong and bad" it's "here, this is a better, healthier, happier, way of doing things" and when we change ourselves, everything around us changes as a result, unhealthy relationships change to healthy ones or fall away, we learn to get comfortable in our own skin, we learn how to communicate...I can't even begin to enumerate the advantages, it's simple, but not easy, and it takes introspection and work and help
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
This happened to me while married. First I wanted nothing to do with sex for awhile because of some meds I was on. Then I had a libido again and he wanted nothing to do with it (because he was getting it elsewhere)
If you two end up parting ways, just be glad you're not married. Breaking up is a lot easier than a divorce.
Good luck to you both!
joni
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
I honestly wish he would almost go at this alone so that I just didnt have to deal with this. I was in a long unhappy, marriage and now that I am finally out of it...Im just so fricken needy I guess. Ive always admitted I need alot of attention, cant help it. If its not one issue, its another and I just feel like its too much. Ive asked him if maybe he should take some time alone to kinda figure it all out and work on him, etc etc and he never takes the bait. Hes always like Noooo I love u. Ya well, Im suffering here also. THIS SUCKS. I feel like im walking on fricken eggshells with him and u cant address anything of substance b/c Im always afraid he will be like "F IT, Ill go drink then" and Im learning that I dont like how that feels. Im pretty outspoken, I dont like keeping shit in. THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING u have NOOO idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im not sayin not having sex is gonna make me DIE. Im wondering WHY and if it will come back is all, thats why I came. I got some answers. Hey whatever. Theres plenty of booty calls out there- thats not really what I want- otherwise I would be doing it. You guys drive me fricken crazy. The last time I came here, I felt the same way! I feel like its all me, jeesh. I HAVE FREELY ADMITTED THAT I HAVE ISSUES!!!!!!!!! OK OK OK OK???? And yes I am looking for someone who makes me happy- should I be looking for a jerkoff who doesnt????? OH MY LAWD
I have read through these post. The people who have replied have been more than respectful to you. They may not have told you what you wanted to hear. They tried to help.
If you would get over yourself for one second and really listen you might learn something. Yeah, "us guys" will drive you crazy because we talk nothing but the truth through our own experiences. We have all done things that we are not proud of, we are no better than each other on this site. We have one thing in common that is alcholism. We all live, learn and grow through each others experiences.
I would suggest that you speak to a professional to find out why you need physical contact to be validated and to feel loved. The definition of insanity of doing the same things over and over again expecting different results.
You said that you have been on this site before and had the exact same results. Why bother post anything if you knew what the out come would be. Read your own post. Count how many times you say "I". Sounds like you already made your decision to ditch him anyhow. Your just looking for someone to give you permission and to validate you.
This is not how this program works. Sometimes the truth is hard to take. I know through my experience facing the truth is not always easy but sometimes can be rewarding especially when changing your life for the better.
I wish you luck in the future, and I will pray that your boyfriend will stay sober.
Aloha Boyd's...For me when the chemicals were gone and the picture of life started to get clearer (understanding and awarenesses stepped in) lots of stuff became "different".
Sex was one of those things. Sex was sex and before recovery sex with sex without love of any dimension. I did have sex. I didn't know what love was; for myself or for others. Crazy things happen when the alcohol gets taken out and I start to grow and mature mind, body, spirit and emotions. When the alcohol and the drugs were out of my life the need for "rushes" so that I could be verified that I was some one or some thing in my own life or in the life of another went with them. Ever ask yourself the question while having sex, "is he sexing me or is he loving me?". Two very very different behaviors. I know today how to do both at the same time with a partner who doesn't and when love isn't being received in the manner that it is given then the word "chore" or others like it become fitting.
An early sponsor helping me to mature and grow beyond the level I had stopped at with alcoholism taught me, "Love cannot exist without some dimension of justice." Honestly when I was drinking I could only sex my partner or wife...love was no where around. And then I found out I much prefer to be loved...before, during and after sex than sexed without it. Booze gave me a rush...MJ gave me a rush...risk taking behaviors gave me a rush...sex gave me a rush.
Im planning on dumping him on Christmas? LOL When did I say that? Crack me up. I never said I came here and got the exact same results before. Also let me clarify, when I say u guys are driving me crazy I just meant that ur really making me examine MY OWN self and yes I am wondering why I am like this, why IS physical contact a big issue- I really dont know. Oops, there I go with the "I"'s again. LOL Its all about me....I guess this jerk off needs a different jerk off.... LOL! I am a needy, self absorbed, jerk off who craves physical attention (ie sex) to be loved and he is the golden prize from the cracker jack box. Very true. Ive been figured out!
Ok, very entertaining thread, I LOL'd reading it. Boydscollector, several things came up while reading the thread (no pun intended) and your posts. You know that, to some extent, you're attracted to alcoholics (as most good codependents are), and with that said, it's going to cause a bit of tension when your alcoholic begins to sober up. While sex may be the apparent issue to some extent, I think that you may be using it (unknowingly) to explain away your fears about your sobering significant other perhaps growing apart from you. Most codependents have abandonment issues, and you're likely concerned about this happening. Especially when regular sex is not occurring. Sex is a means for some codependents to control the other person. If that person isn't requiring sex, that's throws the perceived balance of power out of the window. I'm not saying that that is the case, just saying that it Could be the case.
About the sex. I was complaining to my first sponsor, and it ended with "but what about my needs" (sex) and he said "maybe you should take care of yourself for awhile".
INTERESTING-Dean. Simple and easy to understand. I really dont know if thats the issue- I mean I def do not consciously feel this way but Im not denying that it could be. Hes with me alot though...hmm...I really dont think Im worried about him leaving. I guess I have a couple of issues to deal with that I think are possible problems. This one that u brought up and also the other one of- am I or Why am I using physical as a way to feel loved. I think that one is def in my mind. When I said you all are driving me crazy and I felt this way before it was honestly meant as- You guys (figure of speech) always get me thinking and wondering what is MY issue/issues. I do see a therapist, been seeing her for a long time...5 yrs, so thats what I meant when I said I KNOW I have issues. These havent come up before.
Okaaay. To drag this thread kicking and screaming back to the original point. If he's newly sober, he could be very emotionally fragile, afraid of opening up, and afraid of disappointing you. My advice: Do something to make him feel manly. Compliment him on his cooking or how good he is with the kids or how proud you are of him.
And marry him. If you're living together, you should get married. How's that for an old fogie???
Good luck...
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Hey Boydscollector, Another thing to consider is something called "Sexual Judo". Its where you use the "weight" of your partner's needs to take him to the mat. This means not even acting like you are in the slightest bit interested in sex to take the strain off him, and nature should follow its path. He is under lots of pressure trying to focus on a sober world and the pressure is grinding him to a halt. If you can keep the pressure back for a bit, I am sure he will slowly come around. Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I am an Al-Anon who lurks here sometimes. I would like to invite you to post about this over at the Al-Anon Board. Go to the MIP 12 Step Forums home page and look for the Al Anon Message Board linked there. The folks there are dealing with alcoholics whether in recovery or not. I am sure there will be others who have had similar experiences.
By the way, it is natural for you to feel hurt and confused by this new recovering person. Come on over and post about it.
My Experience, some science, and some blunt communication... When I got sober my head was in shock. I was pre-occupied with the work of staying sober, which is VERY selfish and all-encompassing work. I had a libido and I masturbated like my junk was Jack Daniels for sale 1/2 off. I was selfish and satisfied me my way, on my terms and my time. That's bacause my brain needed a thrill and my self needed re-assurance.
Then I got blissfull. I felt a rush of endorphines and it was like doing ecstasy. My brain was over-producing endorphines because it didn't know WHAT to do. Wife and I made delicious love together frequently, conceiving an awesome daughter.
Next came anhedonia. That lasted forever. I didn't give a damn about sex, or sales, or fishing, or mountain-biking or even blowing stuff up. And I LOVE blowing stuff up. I couldn't even see the point in masturbation. Brain was again re-setting the endorphine levels that I had messed up for almost three decades. How's that Green Day song go..."When masturbation's lost it's fun you're f&%^ing lazy."
After anhedonia came HORNY AS A RUTTING BUCK!!!! I was Crazy Horny. Horny to distraction. Go home for a nooner horny. I got a vasectomy so I could shag without consequence!! I flirted with any woman who would reciprocate (and some who didn't). I was a walking, talking hard-on. Tiger Woods called me and said "Dude...you need to chill " I also had a ravenous appetite. I gained 10 lbs in bacon cheeseburgers. I work in sales and I sold like MAD! I sold more than I could handle. I also became agressive. I occassionally thought "Damn. A brawl would go down pretty nice right now!" That was my brain looking for chemical thrills where thousands of years of years of evolving for survival told it to; f&%king, eating, hunting and fighting.
Now, after a year and a half, I'm finally starting to have the libido that fits me & my marriage; one part Sensitive-Guy, one part Reliable-Guy, one part Primitive-Guy and one part SURPRISE!!
However... The therapist who ran the co-ed outpatient group I was in barely mentioned addicts/alkies thrill-seeking brains getting mad-horny after "the wall" (anhedonia) and about a third of our group engaged in recreational sport-sex with one another or other unhealthy options and the result was a domino-effect of relapses!
I like facts, even ones that may be uncomfortable to visualize...
Well....Still not much "nooks" LOL. Probably about 4X since Thanksgiving. Im trying to just accept it and not think about it as much as I was. We have talked about it a few times, most recently when he had a dr appt on Friday and he brought it up to her (that his sex drive is so low). She sent him for bloodwork to check testosterone levels, she said IF thats normal, the only other thing she could suggest is that "people change". He told me that and I just said whatever. Its out of my control, so I have to try not to be consumed with it.
We are def drifting more apart in the affection dept...not as much kissing or anything and ofcourse the no nooks issue. Im sure if I was Pamela Anderson, he'd be knockin the boots every night, but (sigh) unfortunately Im not. We will see what happens....
