Alcoholics Anonymous
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Sharing our experience


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 805
Date:
Sharing our experience
Permalink  
 


is what we do in AA, sharing our opinion is what we do outside AA, where I got sober "sharing outside our experience" is considered the poorest of form whether in a meeting or outside a meeting, and actually is considered the exact opposite of "AA"

Experience
Strength
Hope

What it was like
What happened
What it's like now

I had this situation happen, and this is what I did
This is what the result was
This is how I do it now, and here are the results

Most/many alcoholics were raised in alcoholic homes where "Do as I say, not as I do/have done" is the norm

What makes Alcoholics Anonymous work is we use "This is what I have done and these are the results I got"

Our very past, our mistakes, are our most important asset

We don't tell other drinkers "You should quit drinking", I was taught the "you shoulds" aren't AA, and had no place in AA, AA is this is what I did, this was my result, and this is my experience with it and this is what I do now

The example I am thinking of is the sexual conduct thread, not one person responded with

I have experience with this (having a sponsee with 18 months who was a regular meeting attendant, worked the steps, was in college, etc etc) , and this is what I did

but

this is my opinion, and these were directed to a man who has been sober since 1985, who has MUCH experience sponsoring others from what I gleaned, getting advice from people who have NEVER taken a sponsee through the steps, not once, not ever, but there they were thumping a soap box

I am human, and I have made mistakes, and I have made stupid decisions, most more then once, these are my assets in AA, my past, my mistakes, and how I personally learned to do it differently, my experience, strength and hope are my asets in AA, not my opinions, my "I did this and this was my result, but when I tried this, I got this result"

thoughts? on sharing outside our experience, on sharing our opinion, or actually sharing our experience, has focusing on sharing our experience become a thing of the past, or does it just have no place here at MIP, and we choose to share our opinions instead?


-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 13th of December 2010 01:13:41 PM

__________________

 

it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 318
Date:
Permalink  
 

I heard experience... and perspective, I learned a LOT in that thread. Thanks everyone.

My sponsor taught me, "They gotta need it, they gotta want it, and they gotta ASK for it." She's referring to recovery, yes, but she also uses it in referring to advice/suggestions. Sometimes she didn't have my experience. She would say, "Are you asking...???"

Perhaps I assume too much, I'm new to this AA forum. I assume that when we post, we're ASKING everyone... and whatever comes, we have the option to take what we like and leave the rest. In my experience, I know I run the risk of asking recovery friends for advice, it's like trying to take a sip from a firehose...

I'm guilty too. I'll keep coming back.





__________________


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 525
Date:
Permalink  
 

I use to say it was your opinion and mine that kept me drunk for .. 20 yrs.

Today I think more along the lines of sometimes my opinion is and can be based on my experiences.

__________________

 



MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 3278
Date:
Permalink  
 



I like that "take what you like and leave the rest"...I have the freedom of my choices
and my consequences with that one and hopefully have the desired consequences out
in front of the process.   Some of my early recovery experiences included "Taking
offense is a choice".  Taking offense doesn't happen without my permission.

I also learned from the thread and that comes from another experince in recovery.
"Humility is being teachable"...I will remain at my desk.   Mahalo.  smile

__________________


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 1642
Date:
Permalink  
 

My experience is that when someone throws out a question either at a meeting or in this forum, you can often expect crosstalk and opinions to start flying, expecially when it is a heated topic like 13th steping.

I really enjoy this board, and I know a big part of it is folks come here for help and to get questions answered and that can often lead to some opinions and hopefully mostly ESH. 
I think that newcomers especially come here to ask questions they don't feel comfortable asking at meetings.

Normally at the meetings I attend, there is a firm program related topic that lends toward solution based ESH sharing.



__________________

Rob

"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."



MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 3809
Date:
Permalink  
 

This can get in to murky areas too. For example: I don't need to have murdered someone to tell someone that murdering is a bad thing and don't do it. Sometimes our opinions about things spare us from ever having bad experiences and maybe we do want our values and opinions to rub off on others.

Mostly, I do prefer to share ESH and it typically it really goes out to people struggling in their 1st year of sobriety because that was the hardest time for me. I made mistakes, but ultimately I did stay sober and continue to. My ESH is not as strong when it comes to achieving really good balance and emotional sobriety, as that is what I am working on now.

It would seem that opinions are only really a problem when it's a controversial issue where people could and often are on different sides of the coin. In those cases, it's wise to only share your opinion with caution and knowing that others may disagree.

__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 805
Date:
Permalink  
 

I agree that this is a venue that somehow brings out "opinion" in my observation, in myself as much as anyone else, it's just it was pounded into me to never, never ever share outside my experience, and never share "opinion", but to stick to my story, don't get me wrong, I am pulling my own covers here, it's just when i switch from the "I dids" to the "you shoulds" it's a clear indication I am talking out of my ass and I am the one who is covering something up, the spiritual axiom is never wrong

Frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices. The message which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight.

Opinions have neither, opinions have absolutely no -substance-, no depth and weight

To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.

It doesn't say to show alcohics precisely what they should do, or precisely what our opinion is, it says precisely how we have recovered, I was taught this is the very foundation of AA, that this is actually the reason AA works, is because we share our experience, and not our opinions, we don't speak from a spiritual or moral hilltop, but instead share our own stories, our past becomes our most valuable asset, not our opinion

Experience, strength, and hope

I was taught the entire program is based on this principal, this is what we did, here are some of the methods we have tried, this is what we have learned, here are the steps we took, what we were like, what happened, what we are like now

Highly competent psychiatrists who have dealt with us have found it sometimes impossible to persuade an alcoholic to discuss his situation without reserve. Strangely enough, wives, parents and intimate friends usually find us even more unapproachable than do the psychiatrist and the doctor.

But the ex-problem drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished.

That the man who is making the approach has had the same difficulty, that he obviously knows what he is talking about, that his whole deportment shouts at the new prospect that he is a man with a real answer, that he has no attitude of Holier Than Thou, nothing whatever except the sincere desire to be helpful; that there are no fees to pay, no axes to grind, no people to please, no lectures to be endured these are the conditions we have found most effective.

 

At first engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms, and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch or your drinking career up to the time you quit. But say nothing, for the moment, of how that was accomplished. If he is in a serious mood dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you, being careful not to moralize or lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his.

When he sees you know all about the drinking game, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic. Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism. If he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. He will match you mental inconsistencies with some of his own.

If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it. And be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic. Let him draw his own conclusion. If he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking, tell him that possibly he can if he is not too alcoholic. But insist that if he is severely afflicted, there may be little chance he can recover by himself.

Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, a fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body and mind which accompany it. Keep his attention focussed mainly on your personal experience. Explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. Doctors are rightly loath to tell alcoholic patients the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose. But you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism because you offer a solution. You will soon have you friend admitting he has many, if not all, of the traits of the alcoholic. If his own doctor is willing to tell him that he is alcoholic, so much the better. Even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he has become very curious to know how you got well. Let him ask you that question, if he will. Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.

When dealing with such a person, you had better use everyday language to describe spiritual principles. There is no use arousing any prejudice he may have against certain theological terms and conceptions about which he may already be confused. Don't raise such issues, no matter what your own convictions are.

Outline the program of action, explaining how you made a self-appraisal, how you straightened out your past and why you are now endeavoring to be helpful to him. It is important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your recovery. Actually, he may be helping you more than you are helping him. Make it plain he is under no obligation to you, that you hope only that he will try to help other alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties. Suggest how important it is that he place the welfare of other people ahead of his own. Make it clear that he is not under pressure, that he needn't see you again if he doesn't want to. You should not be offended if he wants to call it off, for he has helped you more than you have helped him. If your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding, you have perhaps made a friend. Maybe you have disturbed him about the question of alcoholism. This is all to the good. The more hopeless he feels, the better. he will be more likely to follow your suggestions.

Your candidate may give reasons why he need not follow all of the program. He may rebel at the thought of a drastic housecleaning which requires discussion with other people. Do not contradict such views. Tell him you once felt as he does, but you doubt whether you would have made much progress had you not taken action. On your first visit tell him about the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. If he shows interest, lend him your copy of this book.

You will be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they worked with you. Offer him friendship and fellowship. Tell him that if he wants to get well you will do anything to help.



-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 11:00:31 AM

__________________

 

it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 487
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi,
I cannot afford to drink. I know I have another drunk in me but I do not know that I have
another recovery. I do know my bottom was so severe that i cannot imagine surviving it again.
I also know I have to give it away in order to keep it.
I have learned the safest way for me to give it away is to stay within the boundaries of how I am experiencing the program at the moment.
I was able to get away with a lot more in early recovery than I am today. So my experience is in motion, changing. This is good.
For me it is very good that as I grow and change, my experience grows and changes also.
It gets deeper inside me where things are way more subtle and actually hidden.
My alky ego does not like to bow "neither to God nor man" ( Blue Book).
My "ism" part of the disease will protect itself at all costs. It seems to look for areas that I have a hidden desire ( a pet defect ) That I secretly like, and use whatever is available to preserve
itself. Spouting off on a particular subject at length outside my experience is a good sign, I
am covering up a sensitive area from deep down within. I have learned I am only as sick as my secrets. My secrets want to stay secrets. Not good for my recovery.
So I go to meetings, read this forum, and listen for what is unspoken as well as spoken, in order to help me get to my truth and hold it to the light of others truths.
If I am fearless and thorough I will grow, and also heal.
I like strong opinions and strong experience.
Bill W. talked of the "alcoholic needs depth and weight" (Blue book)
I'm all in.
Toad


__________________


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 755
Date:
Permalink  
 

Gotta say, I don't much care for "take what you like and leave the rest" when it is said during AA meetings or sponsorship relationships. The Big Book is actually full of instructions and is pretty directive. (A lot of "we must...", or "We had to..."). I think the pendulum of "it's all just suggestions" has over-swung a tad to the other extreme. Just my opinion, LOL.

Which (said opinion) I have no problem asserting on a message board (I just don't look at an online forum or message board as the same as an actual AA meeting.) In meetings and sponsorship or 12 step or service work, I try to keep the opinions of self to a minimum, used as guidance ased on my experience, strength, and, most of all, hope...and rooted in my best understanding of AA literature (as source reference.)

Actually, one of the things I love about this, and other such boards, is the opportunity to express myself in manner that ...for me...nicely combines my ESH with a working brain that likes to discuss primarily "in common" themes, feelings, and perspectives with others, to our mutual benefit. I find this online process to be very rich with wisdom, humor, and genuineness, and, to some extent, a refreshing change from the sometimes almost robotic rhetoric I hear way too much lately at some live meetings. More opinion! Bad Lee, bad Lee :)

__________________
Willingness is the key.


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 96
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi bill recovered alcoholic.I agree with lee about the take what you like and leave the rest ! Cause anothone of those sayings that I heard from the fellowshippers right up there with just don't drink and go to meetings! You can't trick me now cause I read the book .it says. That we have found a way out on which we can absolutley agree and that we can join in on brotherly and harmonious ACTION.

__________________
Bill called Bob
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.