Some of Us fell on AngelT like she was a proclaimed Jew during the Spanish Inquisition!!!
Even if Angel hadn't yet to Come To, she came here for help. To quote Capt. Kragin on "Law & Order: SVU" - "We don't get to pick the vic."
I hope for her sake that she seeks out help somewhere. Some of Us have burned this bridge for her and what did it serve? Do We feel more secure in our AA-ness?
I'm kinda secure in my sobriety today. If someone needs to lash out, let it be at me, and not a new-comer. I can accept you as something I cannot change, smile at the sun, and move on.
I read her posts, and I kinda-sorta agree, but kinda-sorta not.
Just so you know what I think, because I just made it totally clear, right? Hah.
This is an AA site. Everyone on this forum is involved with AA, some more than others. For millions of people all over the world, this is the only thing that has worked for them. It works (IMO--total theory on my part) because of the support system in place. Having others to talk to/call on that totally know where you are coming from and how you feel is invaluable. Because that's my opinion totally, it may be what makes it work for ME. Even when I *ahem* skip some meetings and start getting a big head like I don't need 'em so much (don't beat me! I'll be good!!!).
She said she wanted help...the best place for help is AA. Period. Again, my opinion.
Not everyone in AA is a saint. In the short time I've been there I've already met a couple-few folks that I dislike. Being sober and working the steps doesn't mean I'm automatically going to look up to you, or you're going to like ME. We're all human. I actually didn't really think that anybody was all THAT harsh on her, but I'm not an overly sensitive person. You can't work in the industry I have for the last several years and be that way.
Overall, we alkies are a sensitive bunch. She's really REALLY young--and this is coming from someone who is usually the youngest person at HER AA meetings. If I'd have done this at 26, I'd have reacted the same way. Still, truth can hurt.
Everybody wants to think they're the exception to the rule. I know I did.
__________________
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." ~Anonymous
Good post...sometimes "how it works or maybe working for others" kinda, sorta shakes my trust and faith in "my own" recovery and I'd like them to "get it" as I have gotten it to affirm my soberness. Actually as told me by my sponsors... "you work this program for yourself not others" with your Higher Power who are not "the others". I have always been grateful and appreciative of the oldsters of AA who spouted at me and caused me to reinvestigate what I was doing in light of what they had done and then sometimes I altered my journey and not always. I do not promote at all because I will not take the responsibility of it not working for someone else. My own recovery has attracted others at times and has not been the only recovery attraction they had because truely this is a "we" program. I have been remade by hundreds of other recovering alcoholics and am therefore not the only source of my own recovery.
I wondered where in the AA Big does it say that we must judge everyone on how they are running their program. This is a ridiculous. I am new comer myself.
The "old timers" in my group say that if someone can stop drinking and truly be happy without the program then let them try. If anything our doors are always open.
Having this information is what made it easier for me to re-enter that room after drinking again and to admit to it. I am sure we all tried to control our alcoholism in one form or another prior to embracing the AA program. Chapter 5 in the big books says so.... Alcoholics are strong willed people and we have to try everything before we concede defeat...
I think it is all of our responsibility to let people know that the AA door is always open. If someone can find a different way that keeps them sober and completely happy then "hat off" if they can do it.
I noticed in those post nobody explained the allergy to the body and the obsession of the mind. Knowledge is power and means nothing if nobody shares this. AA was based on this. We needed to know what the problem was before we could find the solution.
How can you give someone the solution without defining the problem?
My first time in the program I was not told what the problem was. I knew I was an alcoholic because I excessively drank or I couldn't stop. Nobody sat down and told me why...... I couldn't figure out why the steps and big book was so important.
This time.... I was relieved to know what the problem was exactly. It has helped.
As a new comer.... I personally feel that people should stop pointing fingers and start educating new comers. Isn't that what step 12 is about? (I'm not at step 12 yet).....
Sorry for the rant.... I hope this makes sense....
This is an AA site. Most people here work the program (meetings, sponsor steps, service). She doesn't go to meetings and here is one post from her blog:
"I don't know, maybe addiction is just in our heads and the only thing we truly need is a desire to stop."
So perhaps the allergy/mental obsession should have been pointed out to her. But this is a dangerous statement to make to an alcoholic -- and one that she freely advertised" here. So it is anyone's right to call her on it.
While some of the rebukes might have been harsh, sometimes lessons are. I was once told at a meeting that I said something stupid, not directly but the inference was obvious to me and everyone in that room. I was hurt and posted it on here.
Here's what I learned form a member on this site; I was sharing at a step meeting on a step I hadn't worked. What business did I have doing that? What if I gave wrong advice that was harmful to someone based on my OPINION, not my experience.
This is a DEADLY disease that requires serious solutions and, again this is an AA site where ESH is shared. Saying "I don't go to meetings and I think willpower can cure me", in my opinion, sends the wrong message to other newcomers here, and has potentially deadly repercussions.
I hope she does remain sober by whatever means work for her and, as was stated by others the door is open here and the light is always on.
26 is waaay too old to go to a young peoples meeting in AA, and truely not all 26 year olds respond like this.
How would I know? That's my experience, and that of a lot of others.
It's also when I found out (when I went to a young peoples meeting during my first 30 days) that I was oooold. And that young people in sobriety worked the program just fine.
PS. Recoved from Alcohlism via AA. Old they don't have a program for. -- Edited by Rainspa on Monday 8th of November 2010 04:03:29 PM
-- Edited by Rainspa on Monday 8th of November 2010 04:06:18 PM
Personally I only saw one thing written that made me go "oof" but I am probably one of "the offenders" in some peoples eyes, I don't know, don't really care /shrug
I do agree that not one of us posted the allergy of the body with the obsession of the mind, and am chastened and refreshed that it was a newcomer that brought that to our attention, well done, well done
I was trying to point out that this is an AA site, so if she got people telling her AA stuff it was only to be expected, and what she was doing was like eating pork in a synagogue, or watching one episode of Shogun and then going to a website of journalists who had actually spent years or decades in asia and lecturing them about Japan or China (which, cmon, is the alcoholic thing to do, jesus I was an expert on everything I knew F***-all about when I got here, I have years of experience of being a dumb**s and sharing outside my experience), and I invited her back after her 3 month stint of going on the wagon then returning to drinking ends up in disastrous failure, which it will, guaranteed, a 3 year old can see this train wreck coming, this isn't rocket science
It wasn't about asking for help, it was about "look at me look at me"
People who don't know how to quit drinking, don't know s**t about alcoholism, and don't know enough to ask for help don't "keep me sober" except insofar as they remind me what an idjit I was before I surrendered and had some things explained to me lovingly with a 2 x 4 because I was such a know it all and I wouldn't STFU and would lecture people about things I had no experience with, like how to stay sober when I had no clue. I know in the "new" AA lexicon listening to people who don't know how to stay sober is supposed to help us stay sober or some such nonsense, I just don't suscribe to that point of view, and The Traditions are helpful, when they tell us each groups primary purpose is to carry it's message to the still suffering alcoholic, well some groups mesaage is we want to hear about your day and how you have an inability to stay sober or manage your emotional life, or in short meetings based on sharing "The Bedevilments" with each other and call it AA. (The Bedevilments are:We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people.)
I don't attend those meetings and don't have a lot of patience for them, it isn't AA to me, that is group therapy which AA was never meant to be, we share our "experience strength and hope" and if you don't have any experience, WTF are you sharing other then to ask for help? I LOVE to hear about peoples day to day stuff here, and successes and failures, this isn't a meeting, but it IS AA based, bring up alcoholism, you gonna get AA answers
I attend solution based meetings, not problem based meetings, and it was explained to me if you are sharing "the problem" you sure as sh*t aren't sharing the solution, and if you aren't sharing the solution, why are you talking? (once again asking for help isn't included, help me help me is entirely appropriate, or "I am having a rough time help me, any variation thereof, I need some experience with this etc)
If I don't know something about a subject and am starting out on a new project I certainly don't go to a website and tell them how I am doing it rather then asking for help and advice, that's literally like attending pilots school and after a week telling the instructors how to fly a plane because I made a model airplane out of a cereal box when I was a kid.
She's been to meetings, she knows what to expect from AA, and this is an AA site "We alcoholics are sensitive people. It takes some of us a long time to outgrow that serious handicap." (p125)
-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 8th of November 2010 04:09:04 PM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
26 is waaay too old to go to a young peoples meeting in AA, and truely not all 26 year olds respond like this.
I'm only 7 years older than she is, and I gotta say, I still feel like an infant playing pat-a-cake with the contents of my diaper most days. At 26, I was probably still legally retarded. I thought I knew a lot, but in truth nothing had really happened to me yet. I still don't know what the hell is going on. I'm okay with that. I'll find my way.
__________________
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." ~Anonymous
Aquadude, I feel you here but, IMO, AngelT came in here for the expressed purpose of advertising her blog and really nothing else. She has no interest in AA or the program and in her blog (which I read in it's entirety) it says "One week down 11 weeks to go". So her goal was to quit drinking for 3 months probably to improve her appearance and perhaps prove that she's not an alcoholic because she would be able to quit for 3 months. Ok so I'm presuming a bit but it's an educated guess based on previous observations. I don't think that anyone was particularly hard on her and she wasn't really listening anyway.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 8th of November 2010 05:33:27 PM
26 is waaay too old to go to a young peoples meeting in AA, and truely not all 26 year olds respond like this.
I'm only 7 years older than she is, and I gotta say, I still feel like an infant playing pat-a-cake with the contents of my diaper most days. At 26, I was probably still legally retarded. I thought I knew a lot, but in truth nothing had really happened to me yet. I still don't know what the hell is going on. I'm okay with that. I'll find my way.
Legally retarded at 26? You and me both kid, that's when I got sober
this is news to me that 26 is "waaaaay too old" for attending "young peoples" meetings, I admit some of my old meetings have been over run by high school kids and kids in their early 20's (who work a DAMN fine program of fundamental sobriety) but I'm going to have to tell many hundreds and hundreds of friends in their 20's and 30's, and even a few in their 40's that all got sober in "young peoples" that at 26 they are WAAAY too old including GSR's, reps, secretaries, area reps, state reps that they are all "way too old" to be as active in ACYPAA, MCYPAA, SACYPAA, EBYPAA, WACYPAA, SFYPAA, LACYPAA as they are
Shame, their photos on Facebook are teh best, all their activities, their parties, their dances, their campouts, Halloween, I was going to go to a YPAA party this Saturday for my buddies 20 year and his sponsees 11 year, guess I'll cancel
I mean personally I stopped attending young peoples meetings some years ago except when I get asked to speak, but I get invited to their meetings regularly at age 45, and ALL my friends go to their events, since almost everyone I know got sober in their 20's and we're all in our forties, and most everyone I know has between 20 and 35 years of sobriety any more, ok some in their 30's and some in their 50's, the point being is we all came up through young peoples, most of us before it was formalized since we all got sober young.
But yeah, even though I was also functionally and emotionally retarded at age 26, I still believe it's old enough to be held accountable, personally on a side note, when i WAS new I was told to STFU until I was 30, as men don't know s*** until they are 30...just saying
-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 8th of November 2010 05:33:00 PM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Aquadude, I feel you here but, IMO, AngelT came in here for the expressed purpose of advertising her blog and really nothing else. She has no interest in AA or the program and in her blog (which I read in it's entirety) it says "One week down 11 weeks to go". So her goal was to quit drinking for 3 months probably to improve her appearance and perhaps prove that she's not an alcoholic because she would be able to quit for 3 months. Ok so I'm presuming a bit but it's an educated guess based on previous observations. I don't think that anyone was particularly hard on her and she wasn't really listening anyway.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 8th of November 2010 05:33:27 PM
Agreed. This is an AA sight. She wanted nothing to do with AA. If anyone is anything like me I tend to get a little defensive when it comes to the fellowship. I know it's a "big boy" and can take care of itself, but I feel I owe it my life, and will guard it accordingly. I stayed out of that topic because I didn't feel I really had anything to add that wasn't already posted. Honestly, I don't see it as being bad, but that's just me. All we can do is plant the seed, and I believe that was successful. I hope she finds her way back into the rooms, but remember...some of us have to die.
K.....
__________________
Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
Thanks for the POVs. All of them. My .02 is this...
She walked in the door and expressed a desire to stop drinking. At that point our responsibility is clear; share in a general way what it was like, what happened and what it's like now. Showing her by example and E/S/H is a lot different than imperatives and "you need" or "you should" statements. Imperatives don't open up communications, they stop it.
My home-group has a guy who comes by 3 or 4 times a week and still calls us "you people" and insists that he is "a fully recovered former alcoholic". He has been coming for almost six months now. Last week he bought a $3 pocket Big Book and started reading it. Today he identified himself as alcoholic. Maybe in a year or two he'll start asking about steps. We were there for him on his timetable, not ours.
This little blip in my consiousness has made me look at how I witness AA to the curious. I will remember to be gentle & patient. I will not judge. I will show more and tell less.
But yeah, even though I was also functionally and emotionally retarded at age 26, I still believe it's old enough to be held accountable, personally on a side note, when i WAS new I was told to STFU until I was 30, as men don't know s*** until they are 30...just saying
Of course you're old enough to be held accountable at 26, or 21, or 17 for that matter. I had one infant and another on the way at that time, and wasn't drinking (then) but I had a problem before I got pregnant, and I resumed that problem after I got divorced and my kids were a bit older. Still, if anyone had tried to tell me I needed AA at that time I don't think I would have listened...much. I DID read the BB in its entirety at the age of 26, however...just out of "curiosity". I was a little frightened at how much I related to it even then, when I wasn't drinking. I only wasn't because I wasn't ABLE to, because truusssssst me, I missed it. Almost ten years later, here I am. It just took a while to percolate, and I had to repeatedly make the same mistake hoping for a different outcome (maybe I'm still legally retarded, heh) or whatever...I wish I could have come to my senses earlier, but we are a fellowship of folks who apparently need to learn things the hard way.
I would never tell anyone to STFU because they were younger and couldn't possibly know anything until such-and-such age. I still don't know much of anything!
I'd rather listen.
__________________
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." ~Anonymous
Rob good points and if this were an AA group, instead of a message board where we simply talk about it, I think that your points would apply. You didn't really address my comment about her coming here for the purpose of attracting more followers to her blog, aka spamming, and her interest in our board (if any) were secondary .
AmyWillWin wrote:I would never tell anyone to STFU because they were younger and couldn't possibly know anything until such-and-such age. I still don't know much of anything! You n me both kid, but truthfully I had it coming, I took stupidity to an art form, this old guy (who looked like Yoda but for some reason sounded like a leaky sputtering steam kettle with Terrets syndrome whenever I opened my mouth) was constantly grabbing my ear and dragging me outside my first year
literally, would grab my ear and drag me outside the room, sometimes mid-share during a meeting to inform me in no uncertain terms what new heights of vast and utter stupidity I had achieved, those scenes are justifiably famous now among my brethren who were new with me
Lot of Great stories start with "Remember the time Irv grabbed Andrew's ear and ....."
-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 8th of November 2010 07:42:44 PM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
She walked in the door and expressed a desire to stop drinking. At that point our responsibility is clear; share in a general way what it was like, what happened and what it's like now.
Where? She walked in the door advertising her website where it told us of her plan to go on the wagon until Jan 1st then return to drinking
in her titles she wrote "sober for the first time since blah blah" but not once in the body of her posts did she express a desire to quit drinking or ask for help
If he is not interested in your solution, if he expects you to act only as a banker for his financial difficulties or a nurse for his sprees, you may have to drop him until he changes his mind. This he may do after he gets hurts some more.
If he is sincerely interested and wants to see you again, ask him to read this book in the interval. After doing that, he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on. He should not be pushed or prodded by you, his wife, or his friends. If he is to find God, the desire must come from within.
If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us. But point out that we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that. Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy. One of our Fellowship failed entirely with his first half dozen prospects. He often says that if he had continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others, who have since recovered, of their chance.
AA isn't for people who need it, AA is for people who want it, almost every single post stated "We'll leave the light on for you and some coffee brewing and the door open for when you are ready"
actually I think every single post did say that
Personally I think of the responsibility statement:
Responsibility Declaration
"I am responsible. When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there. And for that: I am responsible."
and if they aren't reaching out for help I am merely required to be friendly
we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that.
It's not my job to chase people who don't want help or tell them what it was like, what happened, or what it's like now, actually it's the opposite, attraction not promotion
Can't help someone who doesn't want help, can't teach someone who already knows everything, and can't fill a cup that's already full, all we can do is hope she doesn't die when she drinks again and someone here said something that she will remember when her life goes back in the crapper, over the years I have had hundreds of people either finally come to me when they were ready to get sober or approached me after they got sober and told me it was my words ringing in their ears when they were drinking or hungover or needed help so they knew where to go
it weren't me that got a single one of them ready before their time though, it was them going and drinking some more, them hurting themselves until they were "done" For most normal folks, drinking means conviviality, companionship and colorful imagination. It means release from care, boredom and worry. It is joyous intimacy with friends and a feeling that life is good. But not so with us in those last days of heavy drinking. The old pleasures were gone. They were but memories. Never could we recapture the great moments of the past. There was an insistent yearning to enjoy life as we once did and a heartbreaking obsession that some new miracle of control would enable us to do it. There was always one more attempt and one more failure.
The less people tolerated us, the more we withdrew from society, from life itself. As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm, the chilling vapor that is loneliness settled down. It thickened, ever becoming blacker. Some of us sought out sordid places, hoping to find understanding companionship and approval. Momentarily we did then would come oblivion and the awful awakening to face the hideous Four Horsemen Terror, Bewilderment, Frustration, Despair. Unhappy drinkers who read this page will understand!
Now and then a serious drinker, being dry at the moment says, "I don't miss it at all. Feel better. Work better. Having a better time." As ex-problem drinkers, we smile at such a sally. We know our friend is like a boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits. He fools himself. Inwardly he would give anything to take half a dozen drinks and get away with them. He will presently try the old game again, for he isn't happy about his sobriety. He cannot picture life without alcohol. Some day he will be unable to imagine life either with alcohol or without it. Then he will know loneliness such as few do. He will be at the jumping-off place. He will wish for the end.
THOSE are the people I can help, not the boys whistling in the dark, doing things "their way", to those people I can only smile, maybe say something, shock them and hope they remember it when they hit bottom, maybe buy them a drink and hope they make it back alive
THAT is why I say things with such bluntness to newcomers with their heads up their butts, not to help them today but in hopes they remember when they achieve the necessary level of desperation, I am not a plick to people arbitrarily, I am trying to get their attention to save their LIVES!!!!
The person who 12 stepped me was BRUTALLY honest to me about my drinking, it took me 6 more years but I knew where to go when I deceded to get sober, to where the only guy ever smart enough to pull my covers got sober
If I tell the truth, it's no longer my problem, if there is a problem it's someone else's problem, I still think there was one statement to her that was completely out of line, because it served no purpose, but I am not the AA Police nor a mod, so I didn't say anything about it, it's none of my business
Aquaman wrote:Showing her by example and E/S/H is a lot different than imperatives and "you need" or "you should" statements. Imperatives don't open up communications, they stop it. Funny thing is in her first thread every single response was a "you should" and a "you need" and she responded with this:
Thank you all for your kinds words. :) I appreciate it. :) Hugs!
After that pretty much every response was "I did" and "we did" and "we have found" in her other threads, with two exceptions, which are worth noting by the way as purely a psychological exercise, since our job is to work on becoming more effective
Very good thread though Rob, I enjoy topics that make me think
a lot
-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 8th of November 2010 08:56:00 PM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
How would I know? That's my experience, and that of a lot of others.
It's also when I found out (when I went to a young peoples meeting during my first 30 days) that I was oooold. And that young people in sobriety worked the program just fine.
I was 26 at the time.
They were not unkind to me; but I was too OOOOOOOLLLLLLLDDDDD to be a "young person".
Maybe I've gotten younger and should try young peoples meetings again now! I could be their advisor or secretary or rep, or the "authority".... No wait, "young people in sobriety worked the program just fine."
"Before it was formalized" to include people in their 30's and 50's? Yes, you're probably right. When I got sober they were actually young.
And frankly, I'd feel more than a little creepy pretending to be a "young person" now. Because I wasn't at 26, and I'm not now.
But I used to be under 25 and I know what my opinion was of 40 year old men that hung around.
Rainspa wrote: I used to be under 25 and I know what my opinion was of 40 year old men that hung around. That's exactly why I don't go to young peoples meetings myself, even if invited except if I am invited to "pitch" and even then I only go because I don't say no to AA
However I do know hundreds and hundreds of men and women in their 20's and 30's and even a few in their 40's that STILL attend the fellowship where they got sober, which was "Young Peoples"
What I said about it "being formalized" was all my friends today in their 30's, 40's and 50's all got sober VERY young together, and we had our own meetings and hung out in packs but before the YPAA's were formed formally and organized like they are today
-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 8th of November 2010 09:16:19 PM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Rob good points and if this were an AA group, instead of a message board where we simply talk about it, I think that your points would apply. You didn't really address my comment about her coming here for the purpose of attracting more followers to her blog, aka spamming, and her interest in our board (if any) were secondary .
You're right, Dean. I didn't address that, but I can, if asked about my POV. I saw her blog and our invitation to view it as an attempt at validation from us and an outbound communication from her. Something to file under "ad infinitum" for sure but with 12 followers, hardly a commercial venture worthy of advertising for any kind of gain.
All I saw was a drinker trying to quit, and a few people harshin' on her. I'm not going to assume anyone's intentions, but I'll share my perceptions. My perception was that she was being cast out until she could see things "our" way and that is exactly what happened.
"Fine I'll leave." Is that really what we want?
I'm done with this and filing the experience under "accept what I can't change". I choose to extend the hand of AA to any and all who seek our help. There is nothing on this forum that says "you must be this tall to ride".
Aquaman wrote: There is nothing on this forum that says "you must be this tall to ride". Except for you must be an alcoholic with an honest desire to quit drinking for AA to either work or to be a member of AA
Once again I was bummed at the actual comment that made her leave, since yes, we are told to be friendly, but in all honesty, until someone hits bottom (and they decide when that is) and are willing to take direction AA is not for them
I don't go to Catholic/Christian Sites to push my Pagan beliefs on them because in all likelihood I would get the same reception she got here, polite at first, and then irritated responses as she continued to push her own agenda and say AA wasn't for her, if AA wasn't for her why is she pushing her own agenda on an AA site? It's simple math, it was only a matter of time before someone got irritated and said what was said to her
This is an AA site, we don't think ourselves or blog ourselves sober here, we work the steps and discuss AA, if discussing AA offends someone maybe they should go elsewhere until they hit a hard enough bottom to think maybe there is something to this whole AA business after all, since we get and stay sober here
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
You didn't really address my comment about her coming here for the purpose of attracting more followers to her blog, aka spamming, and her interest in our board (if any) were secondary .
You're right, Dean. I didn't address that, but I can, if asked about my POV. I saw her blog and our invitation to view it as an attempt at validation from us and an outbound communication from her. Something to file under "ad infinitum" for sure but with 12 followers, hardly a commercial venture worthy of advertising for any kind of gain. ened.
"Fine I'll leave." Is that really what we want?
Peace, Rob
Really? Her blog had links to her resume, books that she'd written, movies and tv appearences....
Sure it wasn't our intention for her to leave, but like I wrote in my post, she was never really here. The net result was the same. She just popped in here to advertise her blog and look for some validation for it. When she didn't get any she left. She was quitting for brief period, had her mind made up on how she was going to do it, wanted nothing but validation, and was practically appalled at the suggestions given. I agree it could've been handled better but the net result was the same. Thinking that if we had said just the right thing, she'd have stayed and stayed sober, imo, is indictitive of some people pleasing control issue. Been there and done. Nothing that I can say is going to keep someone sober or push someone determined to get sober out of these rooms, even if this was one of those rooms.
She said that she went to two meetings and they were depressing to her. Hey I felt the same way. I don't think that many people take right to AA meetings, I certainly didn't. My initial feelings about AA, after attending a couple meetings, was that it was a place for losers and that most of the people in there were sick, beat up, brain dead, and brain washed lol. I was too smart, too good looking, and had a lot of resources left and that AA would have to be a last resort for me. (sound familiar?) It took two years for me to realize that I was sicker than most of the people in those rooms and it became my last resort, which I had a lot a shame about as I still thought that it was a place for sick beat up losers, but I had accepted that I was one of them. I felt it was some sort of death sentence and I was resigned to serve it. I'm grateful that I had been given the gifts of desperation and willingness, basic humility and I had been humbled. My ego had been shartered and I was scared to leave the rooms. I reached out my hand for the life preserver and was glad to be brought aboard this vessel. Nothing was going to chase me off of it as I had nowhere to go. I was going to learn how not to drink by the best in the bussiness and move toward maturity and productivity even if I was to never laugh or have any fun for the rest of my life. It was a fair trade, so I thought. Looking back I was still a fairly high bottom drunk, and that I had hit an mental/emotional bottom. I guess that I was a bit wiser than I gave myself credit for as there were a ton of yets that I knew I was destined to hit if I were to drink again. I had been to enough meetings in those first two years (probably 100+). I had heard of others misfortunes and related, but what registered with me the most was when people in discussion meetings more or less told me that I was full of crap and that if I was going to stay and stay sober I'd better get busy and work for my sobriety. I didn't like it but I knew that they were right. I decided to do whatever I ever heard people in the meetings did to get sober. I set my goal at a year of sobriety and was going to hold on to see what that looked/felt like.
Does causally strolling into an AA message board to get a few more followers for a blog sound like willingness and desperation? lol
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 06:34:56 AM
StPeteDean wrote: Thinking that if we had said just the right thing, she'd have stayed and stayed sober, imo, is indicitive of some people pleasing control issue. Been there and done that. Nothing that I can say is going to keep someone sober -who isn't ready to be sober in the first place- second set of italicized words mine, but that sums the entire thing up perfectly
it's easy to see the folks who grasp this thing with the desperation of a drowning person, the ones done trying it "their way", the ones that might actually stay sober, and it's easy to spot the ones not ready, there are 2 types, the ones that SAY everything they think is "right" but are only manipulating everyone around them, and the ones still doing it "their way"
Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
The only thing I can hope for is to say something she will remember when she finally is ready to get sober
StPeteDean wrote:what registered with me the most was when people in discussion meetings more or less told me that I was full of crap and that if I was going to stay and stay sober I'd better get busy and work for my sobriety. I didn't like it but I knew that they were right. I decided to do whatever I ever heard people in the meetings did to get sober. This was my experience exactly, the people who knew what they were talking about and told me the truth were the ones that got my attention, and it got my attention because it stuck in my throat
One of those exact things were when I told someone I was a beautiful and unique snowflake and they burst out laughing right in my face and explained otherwise in no uncertain terms, that will be guaranteed to make an entire meeting rofl is to announce that shite at group level
want to see an old timer burst into howls of laughter, tell your sponsor that crap lol but be sure to duck cause the 2x4 is coming
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 09:51:09 AM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Making like "her way" was going to lead to anything but relapse would not be doing her a favor. AA is not for wimps. That said, I should have been way more tactful and not made jokes at her expense. I had trouble even viewing her as a real person and just saw it as a bunch of stupid spam that was detracting from the site and the real issue at hand which is that alcohol is a deadly disease. Other people read the posts here and might think they can write a blog instead of going to meetings based on her posts. Not everyone works a perfect program...but that was not a program at all. She said dozens of people what written to her for help too...that is really scary. Yes, I know I was the one who was the worst offender in that thread. If I saw her in real life I would give her a big hug and ask her to go to an AA meeting with me.
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
