Don't Want Recognition

Carlotta · Veteran Member

Don't Want Recognition

gonee · MIP Old Timer

I was just the opposite. I wanted to share all the time sometimes speaking out of turn.
Both are not good. We have to carry the message to the still suffering and God will show us how to do it if we are listening to Him. That is our 12 step responsibility. It's from God not our sponsor.

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

We tell our story to help newcomers, we get chips to help newcomers, it has zero to do with recognition, it's not "look at me" it's "How can I help you?" "How can I help the newcomer?"

I know how you feel, I go into a blackout every time I have to speak, I literally go into the bathroom and pray to the porcelain God, when I go up to the podium I'm shaking worse then a dog pooping peach pits

I do it anyway

for the newcomer, because they were there to do it for me before me, what if no one was there to help me when I got to AA? What if no one wanted to tell their story? give me their number? take me to meetings? to literally hold my hand, to carry me when I couldn't carry myself?

I'd be dead

Getting sober is by nature an uncomfortable process, that's what a sponsor is for is to help us get out of our "comfort zone" because our "comfort zone" by definition is insanity, and getting mentally healthy and over our self centered fear is by nature uncomfortable, and frankly scary, we do it anyway, because it is the path to health, to Sobriety, to a life free of selfishness and self centeredness, your sponsor knows you are frightened, hell we are ALL frightened the first time we speak

We do it anyway, and most of us are dragged kicking, biting and scratching, but we do it anyway

I was told that was the price, we'll help you, we'll save your life for free and for fun, and the only thing we ask is you reach behind you and pull up those behind you, I personally wouldn't be able to say No to the organization that saved my life and NEVER have, not everyone feels that way though, I was told the only crime in AA was to "steal" sobriety, to "get your hot dog and go home", to not give back to help the organization that saved your life, to say things like "I have a life, I'm too busy to help" when it was AA that gave you that life in the first place, but not everyone was raised in AA the same way as I was, and I consider myself blessed to have found the solid sobriety I did.

It saved my life, the least I can do is overcome a little self centered fear and pitch to a roomful of friends and say thank you and quite possibly save a life

-- Edited by LinBaba on Saturday 9th of October 2010 08:31:09 PM

Just Toni · MIP Old Timer

Hi Dear Carlotta,

I heard so much fear in you.....really... and the part about...

"but I really don't want to stand up there at the podium and give my story and I know it has to come from the heart and the humility piece of it all..."

Your ES & H....does not necessary have to be telling your whole story, just like what you wrote out, about being an active alcoholic for x number of years, and just how good it feels to ...."very happy to be sober and out of the depression, loneliness," the brand new person wants to hear that part, in my opinion more than "Your Story"

Some that speak go into great detail about what it was like, and some don't,
ask most people, when they stand up and speak from the heart, (I dont think the Heart knows how to rehearse anyway.......it just flows out...and you will see great joy in that new person's face......

Hope this helps....on my first B'day, I had a Home group that I loved, and yes I did stand up and say a few words about how happy I felt about my first birthday, it was a joyfull day for this chronic relapser, almost wanted to ask some one to pinch me to make sure iit was for real....one whole year......and my HP, I always give him all the credit.....

My vote is take the chance and do it, think you will have a wonderful surprise in Spirit afterwards....let us know please, now to tackle that wall of FEAR that is holding you back......whats the saying, "Feel the FEAR, and do it Anyway"
title of a great book by the way.

YOur title of the Post threw me a little... hypathetally, say a sweet friend gave you a hot cup of coffee everyday, without thinking about it, and on one day, you could see that her arm was in a sling, you'd get up and give her a cup....right....
same thought process......

Hugs to you my friend.
Tonicakes

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

I'd never liked being forced to do stuff I wasn't ready for either...Hated it and was
oppositionally defiant to it...course that was a drinking characteristic of mine too and
the solution for me was trust and humility. The "chips" are traditional. I didn't get
my first chip until I had 16 years of sobriety...just never did go figure but when I did
get that one I almost went back out on it. It was a God thing...my ego wanted some
thing to tell me I was "cured" and the chip at 16 years told me that however the years
of experience helped sit me down again and now I have others and every year I turn
the one I got the year before back in to be given to another fellow in line. Traditions
are important to the program and for the fellowship also. As for getting up and
speaking? That is a work in process and it helps me make amends for the largest
emotional character defect I have carried ...fear. Today I am fear...less and putting
my ESH out there is part of the journey. Do your best. Keep coming back. smile

Jorvick · Veteran Member

I collected all the tokens and looked forward to getting one each month.. but around the ten month mark I started to question it... Some of the reasons (in chronological order):

I was told to get a chip a few days earlier than normal monthly B'Day to give encouragement to a relapser (who started same time as me).

For other reasons the month chips started to mean less, I valued the 24hr chip as the hardest won. I hate to say it still but it was, to my mind, just for today

On my first year B'Day... I had a little bit of F*!k It - I'd earned it but I strongly believed I had a duty to show it was possible - I think it would have been pride or misplaced humility if I hadn't. I made no fuss about my AA B'Day, no meals out or anything like that.

Saying that I've misread your initial post. I didn't do a B'Day share and I have several issues on main share meetings (e.g. alcoholics should not be put on a podium). I'm getting better and can see their use on the earlier steps for newcomers (but not if they've been drinking as the meeting becomes a test of tolerance). Progress not perfection eh?

mikef · MIP Old Timer

Congratulations Carlotta!! miracle year! I understand your feelings,but I also believe that we are vessels for the newcomer and letting them know"they too can be sitting in a seat celebrating 365 days from where they are is important...The seat I got IS a gift from God,I didnt earn anything.WELL MAYBE A CASKET<!!!I do the work ,show up and culminate the process by giving back...Share your feelings if you can and Im sure your next celebration will be different,one day at a time ,just thank God you are at this stageI rather be in the rooms ,even if I wished I was drinking,then under the bridge drinking wishing I was in the rooms!!! Celebrate with your God,live the life He intended for you and all will be well! Keep moving forward and continue to cary the message of hope by your actions........:) smile

louisa · Senior Member

(((Carlotta)))

I refused to do something similar when my sponsor ordered me to. She tried every manipulative trick in the book......"it's your pride" ....."get out of self".........and many many more....it was pretty bloody dreadful.

Apparently all her sponsees did it........well not THIS one. I told her "I am happy, I am carrying the message in many ways....ways that work for me.......lovely simple ways .....I also do service.....and I am NOT speaking from a podium. It may change but for now it is end of discussion."

My sponsor is NOT my Higher Power. We are all different and I feel the inference by some that that some of us are somehow "wrapped up in self" because we refuse to do these things is unhelpful and misguided. There are enough people to go round in AA....people who just LOVE getting up on podiums !!! biggrin

(Thank God!!!)

It has been said to me that my shyness is a form of self centredness........

My shyness has enabled me to carry the message to other excrutiatingly shy people........the kind of people who would run a mile from the more outgoing and sometimes suffocating types.

I may try and give a shy sponsee with a year's sobriety a gentle push.......however I don't see it as my job to bully her into doing things she doesn't want to do. If she is sober and carrying this message to others - than that is enough for me - she doesn't need to stand on a podium to do it.

And WELL DONE on your 1 year Carlotta!!!! WELL DONE YOU !!!! aww

With love
Louisa xx

Just Toni · MIP Old Timer

Good Morning,

When I re read the board, have to say I changed my vote, put me in the Louisa column, ok.

Plus, have to mention that when I talked briefly in my Home Group, I wanted to!!!

Last thing.....I had a wonderful therapist, I swear God put her in my life.....I will NEVER forget her saying something that, maybe to others would sound insignicant, but to me it was one of those Light Bulb moments...

'IF YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT DOING SOMETHING................YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT!"

I will never forget this, it was when I was so down and out, that death itself looked good, that is when I looked up and begged God to help me....never had another strong urge to drink....I say this for simple reasons, it was God that brought me to AA, AA was so awesome, they taught me through the vigorous workings of all the 12 Steps in order, how to have a life....So I share you thoughts about wanted to be alone with you HP on this up coming day. I do the same and often.....personally I stay away from where there might be a cake waiting....

And just want to add, one year that is AWESOME.....

Love and Hugs,
Tonicakes

Carlotta · Veteran Member

Hi Friends:
I've just finished reading all the feedback ... I thank you all so much your kind, caring, support & encouragement. I get really high anxiety as I feel pressured to celebrate in a large group my AA B'day so I will lean hard on Toni, thanks for re-considering; Louisa .. you really do get me and Mike, I was pretty sure you'd read between the lines... as far as I am concerned, I am the first one in line to help anybody who needs it. Jorvick... me too, happy to be sober, attending meetings and where ever I am needed.. I am there. I am so thankful, Thanksgiving Day in Canada today, for being sober, grateful for the meetings and the wonderful people in my path.. for now that is the best I can do!!
Blessings!!
Carlotta

Dave Harm · Senior Member

Well done Carlotta on one year... that is awesome.

One thing that I believe with my recovery is that my alcoholism is a secondary illness. It is real but it isn't my main illness. My primary illness is codependency.

With that in mind, do I do things because it is expected of me or because I truly want too. I go to a meeting that always preaches about service and I won't do it if it is expected of me. Some would say I am letting the group down... but my codependency needs to see that I don't HAVE to do anything to gain respect and support. If I do it because I want too, then that is fine, if I do it because I have too then that is wrong.

I can help many folks without making myself uncomfortable in the process... ultimately you got to take care of you and not the pressures of what others say you need to do...

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

Dave Harm wrote:
It is real but it isn't my main illness. My primary illness is codependency.

My primary illness is as an alcoholic is and the root of my problems are:

Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

The suggestion to "get out of self" by helping other alcoholics is one of the foundations this entire program is built upon, they have other programs for those whose main illness is codependency or "control freaks" as it were, and I have attended 3 of those because while I suffer from them, they aren't my "main problem", as a matter of fact when I was attending Al-anon they were very specific about leaving other 12 step programs and problems at the door, one of the best things they did IMO, one that AA would do well to emulate so things that aren't AA are attributed to AA as had happened to such a frightening degree in recent years.

The entire reason we are encouraged to help others is to get out of "self" since alcoholics are egomaniacs with inferiority complexes, or in another words, the piece of s*** that the world revolves around" but by helping others selflessly we learn that isn't actually the case, we learn that actual humility and service to other human beings is actually healthy

The way I understand it the difference between codependency and healthy is codependency is "Gifts with strings" and "Love with strings" where everything I do has a hidden agenda in order to manipualte those around me, sure I do things for others in a codie mindset but what makes it codie is it is ALWAYS some form of manipulation, if I do this I expect this in return, If I do that I expect recognition or some form of payback, so for me being of service in AA without expecting anything in return, giving "unconditional" love ie "love without strings", helping others with no thought of myself was the perfect antidote for my codependency, which was to use everything in my arsenal as a form of manipulation including integrity, honesty, I mean everything, so for me giving back for free and for fun, doing what I was told addressed my codependency in the most healthy way possible, the first healthy relationships I ever had in my life were with my sponsor then my sponsees, and if I stick with what is "comfortable" I will be sticking with my old behaviors which were what made me end up in AA in the first place, change by it's very nature is uncomfortable and all I had to change when I got to AA was everything, so that means I spent a few years being uncomfortable.

In the Program of AA we reach steps 10 and 11, where it says things like:

We have entered the world of the Spirit. Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. This is not an overnight matter. It should continue for our lifetime. Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately - Then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help.

So if I were sponsoring the OP, I would go to the original post and say, well lets break it down

where were you
Dishonest?
Selfish?
Resentful?
Fearful?

I'd say the entire post falls under those categories, so lets look at it and break it down category by category and say well, lets see, how could you be honest? Selfless? Forgiving? Not fearful? Brave? What could you do differently?

Therein lies the answer and it's one that comes from within
When we retire at night, we constructively review our day. Were we resentful, selfish, dishonest or afraid?
Were we kind and loving toward all? What could we have done better? Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were we thinking of what we could do for others, of what we could pack into the stream of life? But we must be careful not to drift into worry, remorse or morbid reflection, for that would diminish our usefulness to others. After making our review we ask God's forgiveness and inquire what corrective measures should be taken.
On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought- life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while.

While you were drinking, you were withdrawing from life little by little. Now you are getting back into the social life of this world. Don't start to withdraw again just because your friends drink liquor.
Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed.
So I think we were all afraid, that's what I hear in every meeting, the childhood where we didn't quite fit in, the not feeling "part of" the feeling of "less then" but what Sobriety is about is overcoming these things, it doesn't say anything about not helping, steps 10, 11, and 12 talk about NOTHING but seeing what we can pack back into the mainstream of life, it talks about NOTHING but helping others

I have come to view my character defects as old friends, ones I stopped trying to justify or rationalize, if one of my character defects keeps me from making money, finding love, leaving an unhealthy relationship, finding a new one, it's (1) always Fear Based and (2) causing me harm by stealing the very thing I so desperately want, so Now I say to myself, "Oh look, Fear is stealing this experience from me" or "Fear is causing me to stay in this incredibly unhealthy situation/relationship" and I don't try to justify my behavior to myself or others, and Yes, I do say "No" to things that I know to be good for me but at least I stopped living in the delusional world of rationalization that accompanies active alcoholism by stating simply "I am afraid" and quite frankly I ask for help, I ask for someone to hold my hand, if I have to speak at a large meeting I ask a friend to sit in the front row so I can look into their eyes and pretend to myself I am talking to them.

This entire program is predicated on having a "spiritual experience" or in another words "having the freedom from bondage of self" which is LinBaba asking LinBaba what LinBaba should do about LinBaba, of which I am the master of giving the easy way out answers to, the answers that won't cause discomfort, or frankly bring growth.

I can't fix my thinking using the same level of thinking that causes my thinking to be broken, I have to go outside myself and do things that are scary and uncomfortable in order to grow, I have to acknowledge my fear and walk through if I ever expect to conquer it, and in order to stop being totally wrapped in "self" I have to selflessly help others, and if I want to have good self esteem, I have to do esteemable acts, and ask for nothing in return, no tit for tat

All of this is incredibly uncomfortable at first, but it's like going swimming in ice cold water, if you just stick a toe in you may never jump, even decades later may still be stuck in the same place in your emotional development, or just jump in and go through that initial severe shock, but if I want to learn how to swim in clean water, I have to go through that shock, or I can just continue to sit in my own poop, it's warm and comfortable....for awhile anyway.....

-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 11th of October 2010 02:54:54 AM

Rainspa · Senior Member

You had my sympathy until I counted the number of times the word "I" was used, and the almost hidden contempt and anger at "ole" timers and your sponsor (judging, yadda, yadda).

Attending 52 meetings a year and not taking action (step 12, passing on your E,S and H to help the alcoholic who still suffers), will sooner or later NOT be enough to keep you sober.

Like your sponsor, I AM judging you, and by your behavior, not by your feelings. Since your sponsor is "haunting" you regarding this, maybe you DO need to follow her direction.

Careful reading of your posting tells us it isn't about the fear of public speaking.

Please consider listening to your sponsor. That's why you got them after all.

Dave Harm · Senior Member

LinBaba,

I would quote you but I'm not sure if the database could handle it all. I do agree that from being uncomfortable I can grow... but if I am put in that place because someone forced me there then that is codependency. If I am there because I want to be there then that is growth.

A strange thing about codependency part of it is always the need to be in control, to have some power and knowledge. A person I admire told me once, that if it isn't a speakers meeting if you talk for more then three minutes it is nothing more then BS. A need to feel fulfilled because of ones own insecurity.

He went on to say that after three minutes there really isn't any ESH being shared again just BS and the need to be heard. I wonder if that could also hold true with being over three paragraphs, which was where I tuned out.

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

Dave Harm wrote:
if you talk for more then three minutes it is nothing more then BS. A need to feel fulfilled because of ones own insecurity.

He went on to say that after three minutes there really isn't any ESH being shared again just BS and the need to be heard. I wonder if that could also hold true with being over three paragraphs, which was where I tuned out.

LoL

Pot calling Kettle, come in Kettle

http://www.daveharm.com/

Dave Harm · Senior Member

There is a difference... people that go there... go there of their own free will... it is not in a meeting or a forum setting...

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Monday 11th of October 2010 09:52:26 AM

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

Dave Harm wrote:

There is a difference... people that go there... go there of their own free will... it is not in a meeting or a forum setting...

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Monday 11th of October 2010 09:52:26 AM

Well I'd rather not hijack this thread, maybe we could continue this discussion elsewhere. Everyone reading at this site is also here of their own free will, and they don't HAVE to read my verbose responses, it's obvious you disapprove of what I wrote although it's pertinant, and to the point and addresses the OP and stays on topic, but I have to admit to being confused by what you view as proper forum etiquette since obviously going on too long is a "no-no" but it's obvious you don't mind hijacking a thread and taking ugly personal potshots at other forum members if you disagree with what they write or how they write it

So lets agree to disagree about what proper forum etiquette looks like shall we?

-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 11th of October 2010 10:27:15 AM

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

*What has happened on this board before is that when someone starts a new thread, and someone else posts a reply, and then a third person comments on the second person's reply, and then the second person replies to the reply, and a 4th person responds to the 2nd person's reply to the 3rd person's reply to the second person's reply to the original post the original person's topic gets lost, and the 2nd and 3rd person argue about which of their replies is better, and then there is a general argument about the relevency of any of the replies, and then people take sides and there is a big fight.

So, we have come to deal with these with guidelines that are more like at a real meeting, with no 'cross talk'. Everyone is entitled to put up their views in a reply, and people don't analyse their posts. This is the main reason why you don't see much comment on posts you put up as replies to others, because the threads are not 'discussions' in a chat sense.* - Amanda2u2

Can we each stay with our own experience, strength & hope please. The truth in what we speak will be its own authority. We're not here to dissect each other. If I sense this is happening I will remove any further posts that are veering towards this nature. We can concentrate on keeping our own communication clean & clear of this. It is up to the op & anyone else to make what they will of what they read without any argument for bias. Please don't make me come in there! I respect you all & love to hear what any of you have to say about yourselves. In unity, recovery & service, Danielle x