Serenity or Courage...Accept or Change?

Aquaman · MIP Old Timer

Serenity or Courage...Accept or Change?

slugcat · Senior Member

Does he talk for a long time? I think if someone talks very long and not many others can share and they do that all the time it makes it hard on the group and its OK to say something to the person. If I was doing that I think I would want someone to kindly and gently point it out to me. I would be mortified I had done it. I am not sure how someone else might react though. But I think its OK to say something.
If he talks for very long maybe the group can get a yellow card, so shares are kept to a time limit?
I go to another fellowship always a small number of people turn up- well a small number to one meeting and a larger number to another meeting. The time is divided evenly between us all, so we all get to speak.A person keeps time and at one minite to go they make a hand signal, when time is up they signal. At the end of meeting everyone gets to say a brief sentence how they feel also.
It is so lovely to go there because I know I will get to speak it makes it easier to wait on others because i know my turn is coming if i need it. When we divide the tme we allow for 2 latecomers.
that meeting has really strong boundaries though i think that make the dividing time up more satisfying, people dont make tea during shares we have a break half way through for that. no distracting behaviours such as txts, searching in bags etc and hardly anyone turns up late and its often a small meetng. Also all the traditions and steps are read out at the start and the guidelines such as 'please refrain from distracting behaviour such as searching in bags, do not make tea while someone is sharing'. It might not go down well at an AA meeting lol cause the AA ones i go to its a free for all making noise tea etc, but people can speak as long as they want so i guess if they get interupted with noise they can keep on talking longer.

I dont know about the other things, gossip and breaking anonymity and saying the same story over and over. Those are tricky i guess if you are concerned you can say something. Maybe I am stupid but i dont see why you wouldnt have the right to express how you feel about it. Not sure what else you could do though. I dont think it would be good to say it in the meeting but outside of the meeting would be better. I dont know what else someone could do about that stuff.

sorry short version I do think u have the right to say something, hopefully you can say something in a kind way. It wont guarantee they change thu. It seems like a really hard thing to say to someone though.

-- Edited by slugcat on Tuesday 24th of August 2010 06:53:15 PM

Reffner · Senior Member

Has this been discussed at your group conscience meeting? Are the meetings open or closed? Do all said offenders have a desire to stop drinking? My home group has recently gone through something very similar. It was brought up at group conscience and debated (hotly I might add) as to weather or not we (as a group) had any right to ask someone to leave the group. No one could agree on the specifics, but we were all in agreement that the traditions spell out in plain English what we could and could not do. We had no right to force anyone to leave. However, it say's no where that we couldn't speak with them honestly, let them know what the problems are, and ask them to please stick to the group format. If they were not able to stick with the format...meaning follow our traditions, then it's suggested that they find a different meeting. From the amount of meetings you say are available in your area, to deny them of this meeting is denying them of their sobriety. That's not something I am willing to have on my head.

Speaking with them outside the meeting, and doing it tastefully and openly seems to me like the way to go. Maybe suggest to them that next time there's any disruptions or straying away from the topic or traditions, they will be called out in the meeting when it happens, but I would let them know that this is something that the group voted on (obviously only after the group discussed it and came to a decision). I've been at the same group (in and out...but in these days) for 6 years, and I've seen these sorts of problems work themselves out, given enough patients, acceptance, and time. My sponsor and many others remind me of tradition 12 all the time, and I have to remember, principles before personality.

Brian

Lexie · Senior Member

Just a thought...

What about starting another group in your town? If that many are unhappy with the group that exists, maybe another choice would attract a lot of folks. Ask around, you may find a lot of people willing to take the trouble to help get it going.

Other options: a group conscience to limit shares to three to five minutes, to keep shares on the issue of recovery from alcoholism (with the chairperson to remind those who go over or stray far off topic).

As for gossiping and anonymity breaks, yeah, SOMEONE ought to have a chat with these people--if you're up for it, go for it.

Dave Harm · Senior Member

That is a hard one Rob...

And I agree with Brian... principles before personalities. At the start of our meetings whoever chairs will pick a topic and talk about what it means to them. Then before it starts around the table they will say, "If you can get anything out of this great... if not talk about what is on your mind as long as it pertains to alcohol."

That last point is stressed a lot... "as it pertains to alcohol." Then one final sentence is mentioned. the groups I go to usually have 30 people it will be mentioned that "the meeting will end in one hour so keep it short so everyone can have a turn."

Those time limits do have an effect and people mind it if they know about it. A guy who I admire in the program says, "Whatever you say after three minutes is just BS." Which is pretty much right on.

The idea of starting another meeting doesn't always work because these folks will show up there as well...

Good luck,
Dave

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Let's not dabble with rights...Do you have the ability? It's about personalities before
principles however if not everyone is on board regarding steps, traditions and concepts
it's gonna be personalities. You have abilities and maybe going to the meeting
business meeting contains the solution or at lease the forum to be heard. If you
don't like that meeting start a new one. Got enough members willing to do that?
Or maybe part of the solution lays with his sponsor...can you talk with his sponsor?
Certainly for me I'd take it to my sponsor and my HP and work it with patience and
openmindedness and little bites. In the time I've been on this journey there have
been many occasions like you speak of. Obviously they have all been temporary
cause I'm still here and more sober than yesterday. Maybe another attitude on it
will help also along with the other suggestions. An alcoholic or group of alcoholics
taking themselves so seriously is laughable. huh? smile

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

Hey Rob,

Do others in your group feel the same as you about the folks in question? If not maybe it's just you that needs to work on patience and tolerance.

I think you should only approach them after the issue was discussed at a homegroup meeting, then several people should sit down and tell them about the problem.

I know of meetings where the chair will set a egg timer to a specified amount of time to keep people from talking too long. (the ramblers will probably get upset and leave the meeting)

If the group usually has over 20 people you could start splitting into two groups, you would obvously go where they ain't. My homegroup does a beginers meeting and a open discussion at every meeting.

Hope this helps!

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

Hey AM,
Like the others said, are you sure the others feel the same? If so, the best thing is to just be honest with the Rambler. You can ask him if his sobriety is in question if he talks less. (You will have to be diplomatic about how that is worded, but that is your essential concern). If he can not remain sober if he shuts his pie hole, then you have a dilema. I love the egg timer! I am sure he feels he "carries" the meeting by filling up the dead space, and does not realize he is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Aquaman · MIP Old Timer

Thank you all so much for the view points and interpretations of Principles. I truly appreciate it!!
I have been encouraged by my homegroup GSR and my previous sponsor to raise a "Thank You (name)" when 5 minutes (from our Guidelines) is up. They have asked that I do not abandon our group as they feel I am an asset to our overall conscience. It was also made clear to me that our group turns NOBODY out...ever.

My current sponsor says that I should bail on the group.

I will keep this as my homegroup AND look for more dynamic meetings. My sponsor is envouraging me to look for meetings which bear fruit and foster growth. He puts it like this,
"If you stay in 6th grade long enough you'll eventually be the tallest kid in class."

Peace,
Rob

leeu · MIP Old Timer

Faced with a very similar situation, I decided I not only had a right to speak up, I had a responsibility to. BUT, after going through all the reasonable approaches-the group conscious, the time cards, the 2 minute limit, the private conversation, the appeal to the sponsor, staying for the sake of others, etc etc etc, Bozo and his bunch never changed one bit.

I finally decided that I needed and wanted to stay sober more than I wanted to continue to accomodate what had truely devolved into a bad meeting. I left and found a better meeting...no guilt, no regrets.