You're kinda barking up the wrong tree. John created the thread in his fatherly fashion to gently suggest we think twice before we post. And since John owns and pays for this board to be in existence, he can do whatever he wants. I'm not so subtle, and as far as you being "talked to from on high", that's probably just some  authority issues at work for you, and besides I'm right here and I also have a PM box. On the subject of profanity, it's been discussed. We have hundreds of guests (and newcomers to our site and the AA program) viewing this site every day. Some of them are folks that need to be here and some are just curious to see what AA people are like. It's your duty to post responsibly so that others feel comfortable enough to want to join in the conversation.

Glen, if you go on just about any other message board, you'll see Rules posted and sticky threads that are closed.  Common practice.  This site has no written rules, which is unusual.  I did post a set of rules from another board that I'm a member of for example.  I'll post a copy here for you to see what a typical guidlne for posting in a message board looks like.  Be right back. 





-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 19th of July 2010 12:10:50 AM

Here's an edited version of rules from another message board I belong to.
after reviewing these and considering that we don't even have a set of rules, I think that you'll realise that this is "the easier and softer way" 

1. Each visitor may own a single registered account.
The Staff screens and approves all new accounts. Duplicate accounts are prohibited, and the Staff employs security measures to enforce this policy. Duplicate accounts may immediately be closed (i.e., banned). Do not create additional registered accounts to bypass an issued ban absent compelling circumstances. Any attempt to circumvent any moderating action by registering a secondary account may result in a permanent banishment of all related accounts.


2. Use discretion in selecting an appropriate username.
Do not attempt to register inappropriate usernames, including, but not limited to, racial slurs, profanity and vulgarity (explicit or implicit). New user accounts with inappropriate usernames will not be activated. Offenders may be contacted by Staff and advised to select an appropriate username.


3. Spam is strictly prohibited.

The following are some examples of what is considerd spam:

• Very short posts that do not add value to the topic.
  Example: posts with only the words, "I dunno," or "lol cool," or "in before close" or a quote of a post with only "smileys" added, or simply the word "this" and an upward arrow or "x2" added. If that is the only contribution you have to make to the discussion, this is not the place for you.

Double Posting. A double post constitutes back-to-back posts by the same member. The second post may be considered spam. If you make an error while submitting a post, or realize you would like to elaborate further, please use the "edit" button/function (located at the lower right of each post) to modify the original rather than create an additional post. An exception to the rule applies when a member wants to address the content of separate individual posts from different members. For example, the first point addresses the content of member A's post; the subsequent post addresses the content of member B's post.
Posts that serve no apparent purpose other than to increase one's post count. For example, if someone asks a question and you reply just to say you don't know the answer, or create "test" threads or posts, this will be considered spam. If you want to test your signature picture/text, you can do that in any thread where you have already posted. Every time you edit and save a change in your Profile, simply hit your browsers "refresh" button in a thread in which you have posted. Your account will have been updated across every post you have ever written.Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate and unacceptable on any of our forums.


4.

5. Please be respectful of your fellow members.
Upon registering, every member agrees to not post inappropriate material or topics. This includes content which is knowingly false, defamatory, deceptive, inaccurate, racist, insulting, abusive, inflammatory, vulgar, hateful, obscene, profane, sexually graphic, or physically threatening. It also includes posting anything invasive of another member's personal privacy outside of their posted content on the board, or in violation of any law including any stalking or otherwise harassing any member. Such material connected to the poster's life beyond what they willingly post on ES is a particularly serious violation.

Free debate within the parameters outlined is welcome, and diversity of opinion is vital to a good debate. Every member is free to post their own opinion on the topic/subject of the thread without sanction, as long as the way it's expressed does not violate forum rules. As you debate your fellow members we request you maintain contact with the content of the discussion within each reply, especially as any exchange becomes more heated.

We encourage spirited discussions and holding people accountable for what they post. This may be done in ways from funny to firm, including being castigating if reasonably merited. For example, calling someone "clueless" or calling some comment or post stupid when done in appropriate and justifiable context to the posters actual content is often allowable. This is most safely done when in response to a specifically posted comment using the "quote" feature or in accurate reference to a posters general content in various threads over time on a given topic. Such castigations must not be excessive, and the reaction should be such as may normally be expected by an average reader with a strongly opposing and reasonably informed opinion. If you're unsure, being civil is the safest course. You will rarely go wrong by going after the views of the poster more than the poster's character or personality as you see it. Moderators determine any actions to be taken if needed. Bottom line--do as you choose and so will the moderators.

We are not seeking to favor some genteel "tea & crumpets" gathering or some dry and ponderous book club discussion forum. Nor are we seeking some gratuitously flaming cage-match atmosphere in our threads.

Understand that moderators have wide latitude in defining and enforcing this rule. For this and all matters related to moderation, we suggest close inspection of Rule 18.

6. Do not attempt to circumvent the profanity filters.
Type in your word and let the filters do their job of substituting asterisks for letters. Then check your post to see if all profanity was filtered. Veiled or "subtle" attempts at using profanity are unacceptable. We allow the use of either all asterisks/symbols or none at all. For example "****" and "*&*%$" are acceptable, while s**t or sh*t" are not.

Members quoting profanity filter violations (or other rule violations) without editing the violation out of the quote are simply creating another violation of this Rule and may be penalized accordingly.

7. Ensure the topic you wish to initiate a thread about hasnt already been posted.
If you are reporting Redskins "news" or "rumors" more than a few minutes old, please use the search feature or scan the first two pages of the forum before posting, to ensure the news hasn't already been posted and the topic discussed. If the seach feature seems to be ineffective,. Multiple topics may be closed or merged and other penalties may be applied.


Violations of any thread-starting rule may land you in the No New Threads Group, commonly referred to as 'NNT', and you may find yourself unable to start new threads. You will also see that designation appear in text under your User Name. To remedy that circumstance,  and carefully read and thoroughly follow the instructions exactly as described. Contacting Staff with questions about why you can't start threads after anything less than doing so may "fall on deaf ears."


8. Please use descriptive and accurate topic titles for your thread.
Adherence to this rule assists visitors in utilizing discretion when selecting content to read. It serves to notify members if a particular topic has already been posted and discussed and potentially prevents multiple threads on the exact same topic. Be respectful of the fact that some people come to ExtremeSkins explicitly for latest Redskins news and content, without the editorializing of titles by members.

We are having a preponderance of threads being started, particularly in the Stadium forum, where a title of 2 to 3 non-descriptive words is used. This shows a lack of courtesy to your fellow members. With an ever-increasing number of new threads every day, and an expanding member base, members become more selective about which threads to open and spend their time reading, and which ones to bypass. They cannot do that if the thread titles are 'Guess what?', 'Hey, I just noticed...', or 'WTF!' You are also creating extra work for the Staff who, instead of just merging redundant, repetitive threads based on accurate titles, now has to open each one up and try and figure out where it belongs. So, regardless of the forum, if your thread title is simply "Santana Moss" or any other person's name and nothing else, you may find yourself in the No New Threads group. In all our forums, we expect accurate and clear descriptions of your topic in your title.

9. False posts or misleading subject titles are prohibited.
Deception at the expense of the audience devalues the medium and the content it provides. Violation of this rule is regarded as a serious offense.

10.
11. Please do not use the Quote feature to quote pictures, large blocks of text or embedded YouTube videos.
It wastes space in databases and unnecessarily extends and clutters threads.

If you would like to respond to the contents of a particular post, simply quote the sentence or idea that you're commenting upon, not necessarily the entire post. When you use the quote feature there will be a blue arrow that looks like this-- --simply click on it and it will take you to the original, full version of the post you just quoted. Or if you're referencing a picture, for example, just refer to the post number and a brief description (i.e. "Post #324's wild! What kind of animal is that?")


12. No trolling. Beware of making baiting posts.
Do not post comments that are fundamentally inflammatory, or of little substantive content, or of some broadly insulting nature that serve primarily to incite your fellow members. ExtremeSkins has always prided itself on its zero tolerance policy for the common internet troublemaker. Trolls come in many forms and will be identified and censured at the discretion of the  Staff. We are seeking a better level of conversation than just habitual drive-bys, being simplistically insulting, or gratuitously flaming various well-established points of view regardless of how strongly they may differ from yours.


13. Please refrain from posting explicit material in posts.
This includes but is not limited to obscene or sexually explicit or implicit content in any media form, whether text, pictures, gifs, audio clips, or videos. Use discretion, and err on the side of caution in instances where material you are considering posting might be considered over the line. A significant quantity of our traffic visits occur during work hours, are made in public environments, and are made by individuals less than 18 years of age. This is a board open to all, including entire families of all ages of Redskins fans, and it is the official board of The Washington Redskins. Show pride and respect for that fact and give thought to what you post on the board. If you are in doubt about something you're about to post, simply don't post it.

Members quoting posts that include such violations (or other rule violations) without editing the violation out of the quote are simply creating another violation of this Rule and may be penalized accordingly.

14. Refrain from posting explicit material in your signature.
This includes sexually explicit or implicit (hardcore/softcore pornography, animated pictures, written language, etc.) content. There shall be no full/partial frontal or full rear nudity. This rule is strictly enforced.


15.

16. REFRAIN FROM POSTING IN ALL CAPITALS.
On the internet, posting in all capitals is considered shouting, and as such is considered rude and offensive. Overuse of capital letters also creates a strain on the eyesight, and makes it difficult to read text. Caps should be used to show emphasis for only one or two words.


17. Do not create call out threads.
These are threads whose intention is clearly to "call out" another particular member on a personal matter beyond their posted content on ES. These forums are not to be used as a medium for personal attacks or private vendettas. To the extent personal exchanges/conversations are necessary---and desired by BOTH parties---those members are encouraged to pursue them via Private Messaging. Feel free to question members as to past comments youd like them to explain in the spirit of good debate.

Do not use private messaging to badger or intimidate other members. Substantiated instances of such behavior will result in the immediate loss of private messaging privileges for the instigator, and may result in permanent banning from ExtremeSkins.


18. Adhere to the advice and recommendations of the Staff.
Moderators are appointed because they exemplify the characteristics, attitude and values consistent with the standards set for the site. They are chosen from the membership by existing Staff after much observation. They have been instructed to enforce board rules, guidelines and policies exercising as much restraint as possible, and in such a way to encourage free expression of opinion. They have been entrusted and empowered with the ability and authority to achieve that standard. They are charged with operating in the best interest of the  community. If any member becomes a significant enough source of repeated conduct issues with the Staff or their fellow members, or accumulates an excessive number of rule violations, they risk permanent banning of their account at the discretion of the Staff.

This board allows a wide range of discussion. We will never remove content from our community based on our personal views of the validity of that opinion. The team will not prevent any communication that is harsh or critical of the team. Refrain from unfounded charges of censorship regarding any moderator action taken against a member on the grounds a Staffer simply didnt like the content of the opinion. As a member, if you receive a moderating action and happen to have expressed a viewpoint in opposition to that of a Staff member, the action is due to an actual rule violation and not due to the content of the differing viewpoint.  Staff members have opinions and may express them with all the rights of any member. Any Staff member's viewpoints that may be contrary to those of any other member are never the grounds for any action against that member. Unfounded charges of bias are not tolerated.

These Rules and Guidelines have been promulgated and implemented with the best interest of the community in mind, and with years of experience moderating one of the most active and successful sports-related message boards on the web. We thank you for your attention and cooperation in learning and respecting the Rules. We experience our share of people who do not understand the meaning of the Rules, or have chosen not to learn or follow them, and sometimes choose to challenge or debate the moderators on their implementation. Any suggestion that the people who wrote the Rules and enforce them know them less than you can result in a temporary ban.

If you have a disagreement with an action regarding your account, you may pm a moderator. Please be patient waiting for a reply.  Do not engage in "hijacking" a thread by commenting on such matters in off-topic fashion within a thread. It is suggested that if a moderator's action doesn't directly involve you, then it's none of your business. Normally, we will not discuss matters involving moderator actions on one member with some other member just because they ask or have an opinion on the matter. Moderators may make such material available if they choose, however, but usually not just to satisfy an uninvolved members request.

Thank you and we look forward to your participation. See you on the boards.




-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 19th of July 2010 01:42:28 PM

Lexie wrote:

---

Where is Rule 62?

---

http://www.aagrapevine.org/humor/ 

Seems to me that the purpose of the sticky was to make an announcement, and by closing it, to make sure the announcement didn't get buried in the ensuing discussion.

As a practical matter, you are able to respond, right?  I mean, you started this thread.  Is it that important that your response isn't attached to the announcement?

I'm a big believer in free speech, and I've picked up a HORRIBLE vocabulary in my line of work.  But there are places where it's acceptable and places where it isn't (or at least is less so).  I wouldn't take someone to task who posts in less than polite terms when s/he is in pain.  But when it gets to be casual and habitual it does have the capacity to offend people, and I think most of us are capable of avoiding it.

I liked what John had to say, don't get me wrong.  And I think it is something for me to work towards.  Before the thread closed, I responded with a simple "Thanks, John."  That response was deleted and the thread closed. 

This is not a normal message board, which is why I was questioning the idea of immediately closing a "Sticky" on it.  I don't see any other closed "Sticky" notes here. 

I agree that profanity may alienate other users; however I also think that posting a Sticky without anyone being able to put their two cents in (even of approval) may alienate just as many, here.  It's the immediate closing of the thread that I really object to, not so much its subject matter.  Doesn't seem to me that the premise of the thread would get lost in the comments after the original message -- if anything, it would probably be reinforced as sort of a "group conscience" if most of the responses were positive (as I believe they probably would be).

I've posted my share of profanity on this board and have not been bothered when it gets edited by moderators - that's their call - in fact often times I've been grateful to see it happen.  I recognize that I have a lot of progress still to make in my recovery.

It's just my opinion that if people start seeing things posted at the top of the page, with no room at all for discussion, they may start feeling that this is not the place for them. But of course I could be wrong.

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Monday 19th of July 2010 03:10:56 AM

Since you decided not to discuss this in the PM that I sent you, don't get your feathers ruffled when I answer your questions here.

"I liked what John had to say, don't get me wrong.  And I think it is something for me to work towards."

You've been member of this board now for over a year and have put togehther some time (you're not a newbie) and I have higher expectations for you.  Saying that "it is something for me to work towards"  is non-commital and is basically and excuse for your future use of profanity.
Do you think that I have all the time in the world to go behind you and change your F-bombs to ****?  The use of symbols will get your point across just as well.

"Before the thread closed, I responded with a simple "Thanks, John."  That response was deleted and the thread closed." 

And I'm sure he noted that before removing your post. The owner and mods don't need your approval to delete a post or close a thread.

"This is not a normal message board, which is why I was questioning the idea of immediately closing a "Sticky" on it.  I don't see any other closed "Sticky" notes here."

It is a "normal" message board with boundaries, moderators, and an owner.  I think that this is a powerless issue and the second part of the serentiy prayer might be helpful.

"I agree that profanity may alienate other users; however I also think that posting a Sticky without anyone being able to put their two cents in (even of approval) may alienate just as many, here."

Apparently not, because you're the only one that really complained about it.  Comparing the use of profanity with the normal and typical duties (posting a notice) of  moderators is just, well silly.  Do you go around and leave comments on stop signs, yeild signs, and do not enter signs?

"It's the immediate closing of the thread that I really object to, not so much its subject matter.  Doesn't seem to me that the premise of the thread would get lost in the comments after the original message -- if anything, it would probably be reinforced as sort of a "group conscience" if most of the responses were positive (as I believe they probably would be)."

It's helpful  in life and sobriety to avoid reacting to occurrances based on  general principal.  You said that you agreed with John, so why not leave it at that?  Dale Carneige said it well ~  "Yeid to those things of little interest to you".    Your referrence to "Group Conscience"  here is indicative of your misunderstanding.  This is not an AA group by any means.  It is a message board that supports discussion about AA and getting sober.  The major (read huge) difference between an AA group and this message board is that this is an open forum with thousands of visitors a week, from all around the world, reading.  It's also privately owned and free.  Posting here is a privilege not a right or subscription. 

"I've posted my share of profanity on this board and have not been bothered when it gets edited by moderators -It's just my opinion that if people start seeing things posted at the top of the page, with no room at all for discussion, they may start feeling that this is not the place for them."

This moderator is going to start deleting posts that include profanity, fair warning.  And I am fully aware of the sensitive nature of alcoholics, and it's likely that someone will eventually leave because they didn't like having their post deleted.  If fact, someone just did.

"But of course I could be wrong."

that's a good place to start. 

---

 

Who is defending What ????

Ah Yes !!! The Adventure of Growing Up,
My how I resist that at times.
Recovery is more than not using. God , I hate to look bad.

Nothing to be afraid of.
Toad

I used to manage quite a few forums back in the day, there should be a option for words to edit so if someone say writes the f word it will come up as f*&% for example... Just a suggestion?

Dean,

Thanks for posting those rules... it does show how good we do have it at MIP... we are basically asked to police ourselves.

For what its worth cussing represents my past and has no place in my recovery....

My sponsor said to me that being respectful of others and not cursing/swearing in a meeting or indeed in any place where it is deemed unacceptable  is "the first step Louisa towards "getting out of self" and into recovery"...Oh I remember it well. Ouch!!!!  Believe me I can curse and swear with the best of them as my boyfriend knows only too well - but a time & place for everything!!!)

I respect this board and any accompanying "directives" -  governing it. I bow to the knowledge and wisdom of the mods here.  If I don't wish to.......then I can go elsewhere. Simple.

Come on folks!!!This is a message board......there is an element of delay here, a time to Think! Think! Think! .......if  sober, why not just press "Show Preview" and where we see profanity - just put the ****s in ourselves????!!!

God!!!! We'll be expecting the mods to change our nappies/diapers next!!!!

Oh yes! My sponsor also called it discipline...EEK! I hated that word almost as much as rules!!!!!

P.S. Count me in with Joni!!! If I slip up - am happy and would be grateful to be edited !!!




-- Edited by louisa on Monday 19th of July 2010 02:32:17 PM

I am Laughing. Out Loud, even.
1)
Now I know who "John" is and I gratefully thank him for MIP. Really. Thanks, Man.
2)
I like behaving here as though I were at a meeting. If The Chair says 'watch yer mouth' I'm going to clean it up.
3)
My kids are waiting for me. I'm gonna get my "gluteus maximus" the "punishing afterlife in Judeo/Christian theology" out of here.

Peace,
Rob

lol@Rob

Well, I don't think having 3 out of my 272 posts edited (2 of those happening within my first 2 months here) really qualifies as "following me around to edit all my f-bombs".

But I'm over my little tantrum, probably learned something, who knows.    Oh yea, I learned that John is the owner of the message board...

FS, make that at least 4, as of 1 minute ago.