I've never been what you'd call an aggressive 12th-stepper. I don't shun newcomers, but I don't get in their faces either. I don't think I'm alone - seems like only 1 in 10 of us, or even fewer, really jump deep into working with others as sponsors, doing 12th step calls, etc. I've never said no to any request to speak at any meeting, or do an institution meeting, give a phone number, etc. I'm kind of laizzes-faire about the program, perhaps I work the "attraction rather than promotion" side of things to a fault. It's just not me - I am not a born salesman, and I sometimes cringe at the hard-line "sales job" newcomers are given. But I also see how it works for many people, both the givers and the takers.
At my first meeting, I really felt picked up. There was no pressure, no questions really, I think I was asked if I thought I had a problem with alcohol, and if I was working. I said yes, and yes, and then I was surrounded by various people doing a lot of talking and honest sharing about themselves. I was impressed by that. I immediately saw that each person had his own approach, some more hard line than others. I also saw that each of them was sober, and happy, and that I could be there should I choose to learn from them. I had a sponsor, who was very opinionated and old-school but in reality, he wasn't hard core. He got me to do things when I was ready, and welcomed the opportunity. I'm not good at barking orders, or giving anyone fire and brimstone AA.
My home group has been slim pickings on newcomers over much of the last decade, but things have picked up of late. The group is growing, and we're getting newbies at least every couple of weeks, not necessarily first meeting, but in their first 30-60 days. And of course many don't come back. The most recent guy I talked to, I offered a phone number and he declined. He wanted to read the book and "see what I'm getting in to" before taking on a commitment so drastic as a phone number. He also described recent events in his life as motivation to "never drink again". He subsequently vanished. I don't know if he's sitting at home white-knuckling it with book in hand, going to some other meetings, or if he's back out drinking. I'm not the only person who talked to him, so I don't feel any responsibility that I wasn't hard-core enough with him. But I selfishly wonder if there's something I could have said to make a difference, to bring him back for one more week. Probably not - I'm not that powerful. I stay sober being the way I am.
I'm not really looking to change, or fix what ain't broke. Just wondering who out there can relate. It's possible I've helped some newbie (or oldbie) in some way over the years, and just don't know it. But I believe in sticking out my hand, doing what is asked of me - whether it's an oldtimer asking me to do service work, or a newbie asking for a ride - and leaving the outcome to God.
I know that if I'd felt "jumped on" by aggressive members wanting to help when I was new, it would have made me seek out a different meeting. That's just me, because I'd been around the program enough in support of other people that I was well aware of the fact that different meetings have a different tone, and I would have sought out a more low-key kind of meeting. I think some people, though, might run for the hills if they weren't familiar with AA and thought every meeting would have people in their face.
I think a friendly word and an offer of a phone number is nice, and I also like to clue new people in to what meetings I think are particularly good. The meeting list in our area is dizzying, and I appreciated getting tips on which ones to go to. I also like to suggest literature--the Big Book and Living Sober are both invaluable for new people.
I think it pays "to thine own self be true"--if you are a low-key kind of person and ratchet it up for the sake of connecting with new people, it will come off phony and insincere. No doubt there are new people who do benefit from a more "in your face" kind of approach, but I'm like you and uncomfortable with that.
I know a lot of sober people who have stuck their toes in a meeting or two, gone out to convince themselves a bit more, and then come back for good. I think making them feel welcome is more conducive to encouraging them to come back when they are ready.
I'm with all ya'll on this one. AA is not a "one-size-fits-all" program and B&B never meant it to be. "Sometimes quickly...sometimes slowly."
There are hardliners that i avoid, except my sponsor, even though I feel I may have to trade him in soon.
With new people I greet them the way I was greeted; welcome. "Have a seat. Want some coffee and baked goods? Yeah...we have LOTS of food. 1/3 of our members are retired Grandmas, ya see. Hope you like cookies!"
Hell, it was a year ago TODAY that I was a newbie. Never have seen a six-month chip, though. BUT it's working.
Nah, I don't swarm newcomers and I think it's rude to do so. We give them a meeting schedule and a phone list and if they sound really, really effed up...I buy 'em a $2.60 "mini AA" book. The litle red one with the first 164 pages.
I believe we can only keep it if we give it away, or "he has discovered a limitless treasure which he only gets to keep if he mines it and insists on giving it all away"
This can take place in many ways however, home, work and relationship being the most obvious but also the most difficult
I believe we only get out of the program what we put in, and the guys that go in and early on, like in thier first week on start looking to help others, they stay sober, and the guys who walk around going I,I, I, me me me waa waa waaa my day my day my girl my job blah blah don't last very long generally speaking, like Rob's third step "test" where he watches to see if someone is of service to others before he will work with them, I don't remember exactly how he phrased it, and I didn't consider it third step, but I considered it out "sound AA", we start thinking of others to help with our selfishness and sef-centeredness, which is the root of our problem
Personally I go to meetings to work the 12th step, that is the best thing I know to get me "out of my head", I don't go there to talk about my problems or my day, by time I get to a meeting I am sick to death of me and that incessant chatter in my head, I go to meetings to listen to how other people navigate situations in sobriety and to look for newcomers, I am old school where what you give to the program equals what you get from the program, nothing in, nothing out, garbage in, garbage out
If you don't reach out to newcomers, you won't stay sober was how it was explained to me, the guy with 3 days pulls up the guy with one day, the guy with a week pulls up the 3 day guy, the guy with a month walks over and is a God to all of them until joined by the guy with 6 months who is helpful and then joined by the guy with a year, who reaches out to all of them
We get and stay sober by working with others, by helping others, it's the foundation of our entire deal, the whole meeting exists solely to "carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic"
My views on this are known, and I am sorry for repeating myself, but I think it is important, for me, I got 10% from working the steps with a sponsor, and 10x that working with sponsees. Going through the steps was like drivers training class where you learn speed laws, etc etc, taking others through the steps was actually driving around, much more "hands on" and learning together, I have heard many mothers talk about growing up with their children, that is my experience with my sponsees, we grew up together, and that is when I found myself repeating things said to me by my sponsor making sense, and everything I have EVER said to a sponsee was exactly what I needed to hear, sponsees made me accountable.
I didn't learn to love myself and then love others as people talk about, I learned to love others, and forgive them, and when I forgave them and loved them unconditionally (listening to their fifth step) I learned to forgive and love myself.
I don't see having that experience any other way, because, well...I didn't have it any other way, and it wasn't for lack of trying, I'd stare in the mirror and say happy horseshit positive affirmations until I was blue in the face, but to me, I look in a mirror to see my defects, do I have a pimple? hows my hair? is there a Lima bean stuck in my teeth?
It's funny, I am much more "laid back" in face to face meetings, but what I do is watch newcomers raise their hands, and I look for one I "identify" with, then I listen at the meeting for newcomer shares, and by the end of the meeting I have picked one to talk to, I walk over and introduce myself and basically just ask questions and then listen, it's incredibly easy to get alcoholics to talk about themselves, and I listen and smile and nod a lot, maybe match some of their drinking stories with some of my own but I strive to get them comfortable.
Generally speaking, I don't give out my number, they ask me for it, this is just me but I have always felt just walking over to a newcomer, saying hi, giving them my number and walking away....was no different then doing the same thing to a man who's house was on fire and he was looking for help trying to put it out, like "here, call me after your house has burned down, you've lost your job, wife, car and family and we'll talk"
Guy won't know me from Adam, just another anonymous face in a blur of a frightening and confusing evening, whereas if I talk to him, he asks me for my number, and I write in the Big Book we bought him, he'll probably call.
The only time I finally "land" on newcomers is one of three places
Here at MIP, at meetings I don't feel the need to be the "AA Police" because they work actual AA there, God is spoken, The steps are spoken, AA is spoken, The Program is spoken, and we talk about not having a chance if we don't work the steps, it's a given, and those who don't work the steps slip a lot, and are the still suffering alcoholic, somehow I feel AA is lost here many times at MIP so I land a little harder then I would like. We take "How it works" seriously when it says "rarely have we seen a person fail that has thoroughly followed our path" and "these are the steps we took" also known as the program of recovery, but here at MIP I see so much that is the exact opposite of AA called AA That I end up going WTF are you guys crazy and come across as this hardcore prick
Another place is at "denial breaking" coffee that follows the meeting, we all used to go to coffee after meetings, and if you had a newcomer you'd trap the poor bastard in the corner at Denny's with a few other guys and start with the Socratic questioning, stressing the hopeless aspect of alcoholism because we had a solution
I was actually incredibly good at that, my favorite of all time was a girl we had been watching for about 10 years, she came to a meeting she was whipped, she had given up, her life was over, she was never drinking again. Due to the alcoholics amazing powers of recuperation 3 hours later (after the meeting) she was fine, thank you very much, but wasn't like "you people" and was going back to drinking moderately, she had a plan...
Everyone was trying to reach her, she was adamant, she was OK, AA wasn't for her, I just sat and listened, finally during a pause I said clearly:
"You dated and lived with Crack Mangle for five years" (Crack Mangle was the drinking alter ego of one of the most notorious out of control alcoholics in Bolinas California, a town famous for it's out of control alcoholics)
She looked at me, burst in to tears, cried for a week, and has been sober ever since, that was over ten years ago and started a jewelry business, which I guarantee each and every one of you has seen her jewelry on Magazine covers, she has ruled all magazine covers with her jewelry the last five years or so, I'd be more specific but it's best I don't, but lets just say all of them
The third was the poor bastard that said in a squeaky voice "please sir, will you be my sponsor?" that poor sumbitch .....nuff said
thing is that changes, sometimes it's years just doing commitments, H and I, GSR rep, Secretary of meetings, Treasurer, some years it's sponsees, lately it's neither, the last 30 guys that asked for my number or asked me to sponsor them just disappeared, and that was well before I could scare them away either, in a long timeline I believe there is an ebb and flow in AA, and there is a niche for all of us, as long as we don't just come in, get our hot dog, and go home, which to me, along with 13th stepping is the only crime you can do in AA, but the truth is, you are only robbing yourself
be willing, be helpful, take action, be available, that's all I can do, the rest is up to the big guy
-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 12:18:37 AM
__________________
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
There's hot dogs at meetings? I need to branch out. This has been a interesting post. I thank you, I'm about to approach the 12th with my sponsor, maybe Thurs. I've done service since the beginning, but not much with the newcomer other than greetings and such here at MIP. So I appreciate the commentary. My sponsor is very active and I wonder if I will get to do traditional type calls soon. We have talked about how AA and low bottom hospital 12th steps have changed since the early days. My personal reading in early AA history has been food for thought, especially in light of modern life and societal changes in relation to alcoholism.
I feel I do see real AA here at MIP. I'd hate to devalue that. However, this site is no substitute for meetings, sponsorship and step work. I think it's important to reach out to a newcomer here, this is how I got connected to AA myself. For me writing on the message board is an add-on to other AA work.
I have differing feelings about the swarm of the newcomer. I got that envelopment to some extent when I showed up at my first meetings. I outwardly hated it(Hugs, attention and hard questions-Yuck), and secretly in my innermost self I know that it was a wonderful thing. I do sometimes notice a non-commital aspect to offering sponsorship, particularly at women's groups and also in embracing the newcomer too(at my F2F meetings). I agree we all do service in different ways and HP will show us what's called for if we listen.
In my BB book study, I have been paying attention to the emphasis on service, where it says this is what ultimately keeps us sober, (Bill's Story, yeah how about that! and more). On Monday, in the chapter we read, the sentences and the study guide comments practically pounded the gavel on the importance of giving it back. I feel I can see how this cornerstone of the program is the ultimate solution in dealing with the disease.
So thank all for the insights.
-- Edited by angelov8 on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 03:27:03 AM
-- Edited by angelov8 on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 03:30:37 AM
-- Edited by angelov8 on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 03:33:30 AM
One thing that has stood out for me....is you doing more writing here, and it is very unlifted to me....everything you write always....felt your pain when you lost your long time friend to the Disease, have experienced the same.....and that hurts.....
When you Post, or respond, never do I miss what you have to say.....I like mellow people, they have a calming effect....and you I find very mellow....that is a GOOD thing.....no drama, no BS, just doing life on Life's terms.
As far as being in a room with some newcomers, always make sure that, or try to, to shake their hand, and welcome them.... and encourage them very gently, depending on how it is going to stay after the meeting to meet some other folks....
Anyway, thank you for this Post, it brought out a lot in a lot of people, and made for some great dialogue....
Oops! came back to answer your question, yes, I can definitely relate.....we do our recovery in phases, that's my take, one year more active, then other years to a different phase of the Program....
Hugs, Toni
-- Edited by Just Toni on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 10:56:43 AM
I find the following quote from the AA leaflet A Member's Eye View of AA (page 5) very helpful in my moments of doubt.......
"Though the A.A. program relies upon the sharing of experience, strength and hope among alcoholics, the recovery process itself is highly individual, adapted by each member to meet his or her needs"
Barisax, My approach is similiar to yours. Just the way God wants it at this moment. I'm very active in service- raffle person, chip guy, GSR, PICPC committee, chair when ask or offer if it's been awhile and speak at meetings. I also raise my hand at meetings to offer to be a temporary sponsor and shake many hands at meetings: new folks included. I introduce myself to newcomers and talk with them if they're willing. I've given rides and gave out my number to a number of folks. I've had a few temporary sponsee's that have fled the scene or chose other people and I'm o.k. with that. My sponsor tells me to suit up, show up, be active and let God take care of the rest.
When you Post, or respond, never do I miss what you have to say.....I like mellow people, they have a calming effect....and you I find very mellow....that is a GOOD thing.....no drama, no BS, just doing life on Life's terms.
Interesting. I never thought of myself as "mellow". I'm kind of the opposite of AGO, in person I tend to be fairly animated and talkative, argumentative even - but on here I have more time to compose my thoughts, proof read before I submit the post and in general make sure what I'm saying is what I really want to say.
The on line medium has shaped my personality in subtle ways. I began doing on-line chatting and forum postings shortly before I got sober, and it was a major occupation of my former drinking time in my early sobriety. Considering I can still go on line and conjure up things I wrote that long ago - with my real name attached - it taught me to say what I mean and mean what I say. Whatever I've written that's out there, I'll either stand behind or admit it's wrong. There are some embarrassments for sure, but they're mine also.
I want to quickly say thank you all for this thread here. It just so happened that today at my meeting a newcomer reached out to me. This dialogue was very helpful, not that I was thinking of it specifically when communicating with the newcomer.
It all happend so fast and this meeting is in a public place so we exit quickly. This woman shared after me, and opened with should I be honest or pass? I blurted out, be honest. So she said I'll be honest and say I don't trust other women and I hate AA, but I want to stop drinking. There you have it. What does one do as a member? She asked me about other women's meetings afterwards. There is one Friday night. I wasn't planning to go this week cause of a special musical event in town which I was to attend with out of town family. She is here from aways off and was to go to the same musical event. I think because of the discussion here, it occurred to me at the last second to say, hey, we could go together or caravan to the meeting on Friday. We exchanged numbers. I am grateful that I remembered to reach out. I want to try not to have expectations of myself and for the newcomer. I now noticed that she didn't get the typical phone list and the chair this week failed to ask if members were willing to sponsor. So I am very glad that service to newcomer was at least percolating in my brain.
My first inclination is to call her now to maintain the connection and secure her resolve to go the Friday women's meeting. I know that wouldn't be best. I am sure my meeting with my sponsor tomorrow will include some good discussion on working with others. Thanks again for the thoughtful discussion here.
-- Edited by angelov8 on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 04:03:11 PM
I want to quickly say thank you all for this thread here. It just so happened that today at my meeting a newcomer reached out to me. This dialogue was very helpful, not that I was thinking of it specifically when communicating with the newcomer.
It all happend so fast and this meeting is in a public place so we exit quickly. This woman shared after me, and opened with should I be honest or pass? I blurted out, be honest. So she said I'll be honest and say I don't trust other women and I hate AA, but I want to stop drinking. There you have it. What does one do as a member? She asked me about other women's meetings afterwards. There is one Friday night. I wasn't planning to go this week cause of a special musical event in town which I was to attend with out of town family. She is here from aways off and was to go to the same musical event. I think because of the discussion here, it occurred to me at the last second to say, hey, we could go together or caravan to the meeting on Friday. We exchanged numbers. I am grateful that I remembered to reach out. I want to try not to have expectations of myself and for the newcomer. I now noticed that she didn't get the typical phone list and the chair this week failed to ask if members were willing to sponsor. So I am very glad that service to newcomer was at least percolating in my brain.
My first inclination is to call her now to maintain the connection and secure her resolve to go the Friday women's meeting. I know that wouldn't be best. I am sure my meeting with my sponsor tomorrow will include some good discussion on working with others. Thanks again for the thoughtful discussion here.
-- Edited by angelov8 on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 04:03:11 PM
That is AA, that IS the twelfth step of alcoholics anonymous in action, and behavior such as yours is why the program works, meetings are a vehicle to help these folks, meetings are a vehicle for us to find people initially to help us get through the steps, and then find others so we can pass on what we have learned, thereby learning and integrating it ourselves.
Thank You for your share, and I am VERY proud of you, that behavior literally saves lives
sometimes there is a "feeding frenzy" around around a newcomer, but more often then not there isn't, for the most part I find I am the only one approaching this newcomer, many times newcomers never have anyone approach them other then the usual "here is my phone number, welcome to AA" before the person just walks away to shoot the shit with their cronies, their duty done, and quite frankly the newcomer doesn't know how to take the next step or how to reach out, and won't call people who approach them like a telemarketer, I mean would you?
I have never gotten a phone call off a twelve step list except when the person wants something, will you speak at this meeting? will you speak at this jail or institution? but I have gotten hundreds of call backs from people who I connected with as you did in this share that asked for my number.
if I can touch them exactly as you described I have made a good beginning
That is AA, I am wagging my tail here, ya done good
-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 7th of July 2010 04:55:06 PM
__________________
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
AGO wrote: sometimes there is a "feeding frenzy" around around a newcomer, but more often then not there isn't, for the most part I find I am the only one approaching this newcomer, many times newcomers never have anyone approach them other then the usual "here is my phone number, welcome to AA" before the person just walks away to shoot the shit with their cronies, their duty done
I haven't seen this very often. What I *do* see frequently is the newcomer sneaking away from the meeting, heading for the exit and avoiding anyone that might want to talk to him. Or bailing just a minute before the closing. Generally if someone is new, in my home group several of us will talk with them but typically one at a time, or no more than two at a time. We don't try to stop those who sneak out, other than at least making a cursory attempt but if they're bound and determined to get out the door at 8:31, we're not going to stop them. Often it's "my ride is waiting - gotta go". I wouldn't think that the ride would mind if the hung out a bit, but you know the line.
I'm very glad I came to my first meeting early. I wasn't told to. I had joined Weight Watchers a year earlier, and they told me to come early to get signed up, fill out some paperwork, etc. So I just instinctively did the same thing with my first AA meeting. I showed up at 7:30 for an 8:30 meeting at a clubhouse, not knowing if anyone would be there. It was a Monday and the gravel parking lot was probably half full. I got nailed as a newbie 1 step in the door by a couple guys at the coffee bar. One just started talking to me, gave me his story. I introduced myself as a newbie when the meeting started. I didn't say "I'm an alcoholic" for the first week or two. After the meeting, a bunch of people talked to me and I wasn't in a big hurry. They bought me a Big Book, which I insisted on paying back on Friday when I got paid. I was attracted. I am very fortunate that AA rubbed me the right way from the beginning. Still does. There's nothing I've done for as long in my life, other than basic bodily functions. I've been in AA longer than I was married, longer than I went to school, longer than any job I ever had. And yes, longer than I drank. Must be something about it that works for me.
I do, I have seen it a lot, and talked to many many newcomers who had this experience, it's even described nearly verbatim on this thread
I read here once by a poster "Oh, I just leave all that stuff to the 'service people' in AA" like we were some sort of different class of people
Some of us actually attempt to connect with newcomers, some don't
oh PS at meetings and early on I am laid back with newcomers, few pots of coffee or around friends I am pretty much as you describe yourself, in person I tend to be fairly animated and talkative, argumentative even it's just I was SO frickin impressed by the old timers that smiled and nodded and listened and asked questions that that was the approach I try to take with new newcomers, also that listening and smiling and nodding is what hooked me and I found so attractive, that is how my first sponsor approached me, also the poor bastard is unknowingly feeding you all his BS and denial that WILL come in handy if he does decide to make you his sponsor, I file ALL that shit but once you are his sponsor all the sudden the story changes and the lies and BS'ing you as his sponsor starts, woop, it's too late, I got you in a moment of honesty, and that is what we are working with buddy haha
__________________
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I thought of this thread tonight, when I went to my Friday night group and there was a young woman there on day 13 of her sobriety (she'd put together a few months awhile ago, but went out for a bit and has just come back).
I went up to her after the meeting and asked if she wanted to go out for a bite to eat. She lit up with a smile and said she'd love to. We had a very nice chat over our sandwiches and she promised to call me. Her dad has over 20 years in the program, but she needed to connect with women in the program.
So I'd like to thank all of you for making me think about this. I'm going to make more of an effort to push myself in the direction of connecting with newcomers.
Lexie, Nice job! That's what it's all about. One same sex alcoholic to another. We put down the drink and we talk. I had a guy at my Sunday night meeting ask me if I'd work with him and I said sure. I'm starting slow; having him call me each day and picking him up for a meeting tomorrow. If he continues to show he's serious we will met one on one shortly and see where he's at and plan accordingly.
I was a bit disappointed when she didn't show up for a meeting we'd talked about going to Sunday night, but she called me last night, was going to a meeting, has a sponsor, so she seems off to a good start.
Nice.
-- Edited by Lexie on Tuesday 13th of July 2010 09:19:50 AM
Sounds like you did your part. All we can do is try. Who knows; you may have kept her sober another day and at the same time you were out of your own head and stayed sober. Also, you may have planted a seed for future service.
My sponsor is one of those that works with a lot of people, and asks me what my excuse is for not doing so.
We're all at different levels, and we're all different people. I don't cringe at the 'salespeople' because that's what it evidently takes them to stay sober and they may be helping some people too. And at some point in my sobriety I may become one too.
The thing is, my sponsor says the way to do it is go up to them, introduce yourself, plant the seed. For awhile I did that, but the seeds never seemed to sprout. I get discouraged easily. I think I should probably start doing it again though, because for all I know, one of those newcomers could be the one that only I have the right experience to help.
On the other hand, if we're not in the right place to be of much service in that capacity, we should not get down on ourselves for it - remorse or guilt is a good way to go back out again. It's a balancing act, maybe. I think the answer is to be completely honest with ourselves. Are we not helping others because we aren't ready? Or are we not helping them because it's just not comfortable? If it's the second reason, we might want to remind ourselves that "when I'm out of my comfort zone, I'm in recovery." We have to be willing to do things that we don't particularly want to do, if we want to get some different results in our lives.
So basically, while my first instinct was to completely empathize with your post and perhaps enable you to continue avoiding working more actively with other alcoholics (so that I could also rationalize away my own behavior and join you on this easier path), I think instead I've just talked myself into putting forth more effort in this area. Because it's something I don't want to do.
-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Friday 16th of July 2010 10:10:39 AM
