I had a conversation with someone that made a statement to me that in their opinion alcoholism is a pychiatric illness.....
I did not offer any opinion....changed the subject...but for some reason the question is sort of haunting me....
When we drink, and in our disease, at many stages, clearly the signs are there that what we are doing to ourself is complete "insanity".....some less fortunate go the way of this disease to the bitter end...in their insanity.
So for myself I think I have sort of, not completely, come up with my own answer, if for no other reason, to stop letting it haunt me.....for myself I call it a "Spiritual Illness....with a Spiritual Solution"...
The Working of the 12 Steps leads to a renewal of Faith, unloading all our baggage as we work thru them...and a Conscious Contact with our Higher Power, the maintenance Steps, 10, 11, and Step 12....
This person does not know I am in AA, attend meetings, we were speaking of another's illness, of manic depression, when he popped up with that statement...
What are your thoughts???
Ok, seem to be all over the map today, think my question is when in the deep throws of the Disease of Alcoholism, and it's Insanity....is that considered.....pychiatric?...
thinking about not posting this, but hey I already typed it out, and stranger things have been written, I am sure of that..
Based on my behavior. My alcoholisim is and or was part mental or if you prefer to call it that a pychiatric illness and it is and or was partly physical.
Larry, --------------- In our fellowship, there are always those who feel they have the ultimate wisdom to impart to you. These highly verbose people may set your nerves on edge with incredibly self-serving 'words of wisdom.' They may be full of themselves, but they are probably not trying to hurt you.
If it was completely mental we wouldn't lose control once we put that first drink in our system
if it was completely physical we wouldn't pick up that first drink after a period of sobriety
I'm with Larry and my experience abundantly confirms this: In this statement he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe-that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. It did not satisfy us to be told that we could not control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. These things were true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. But we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete.
We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker.
I do not hold with those who believe that alcoholism is entirely a problem of mental control. I have had many men who had, for example, worked a period of months on some problem or business deal which was to be settled on a certain date, favorably to them. They took a drink a day or so prior to the date, and then the phenomenon of craving at once became paramount to all other interests so that the important appointment was not met. These men were not drinking to escape; they were drinking to overcome a craving beyond their mental control.
Listening to a non alcoholics theories about alcoholism is about as fruitful as listening to a man lecture you about childbirth, no matter how much we read, how much school we go to, the truth of the matter is we will never have the experience of childbirth, we can assist you in childbirth, we can talk about the signs and symptoms of pregnancy, but the truth is when it comes to the actual experience we are talking out of our ass, no pun intended
The thing to remember (for me) is any male stupid enough to lecture a woman about the joys of childbirth is too stupid to argue with, or akin to trying to teach a pig to sing, pigs can't hold a tune worth a shit, the pig gets angry and I just get frustrated, same with non alcoholics with their "theories" about alcoholism, or even an alcoholic who hasn't worked the program (ie worked the steps) lecturing about "working the program", in every case it is someone sharing their opinion about an experience they have never had, that is why we share our experience, strength and hope, rather then our opinion
In the past, even after a long period of sobriety, if I -knowingly- put so much as one drink in my system it isn't over until the wheels fall off, as in you may decide to dance with an 800 lb Gorrilla but it aint over until the Gorrilla says it is, and I start out politely enough, please sir, a beer please, by the end of the night after 30-40 drinks I am snarling for triple shots and demanding they "put some booze in it this time"
-- Edited by AGO on Sunday 20th of June 2010 04:08:59 PM
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I was taught by my Sponsor that it is physical, mental and spiritual. I'm an alcoholic - I do NOTHING by halves!!!!.....I want it ALL......... Louisa xx
Alcoholism is a disease of the MIND and body... that says it all for me... any disease of the mind I would think would classify as a Mental illness/disease.. interesting responses, also
field of medicine: a medical specialty concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of disorders that have primarily mental or behavioral symptomsand with the care of people having such disorders
Absolutely, the solution is spiritual... but the disease itself is many-fold... mental (psychiatric), physical (craving, THIQ, etc.) and spiritual
-- Edited by jonijoni1 on Sunday 20th of June 2010 07:38:59 PM
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Alcoholism is a disease of the MIND and body... that says it all for me... any disease of the mind I would think would classify as a Mental illness/disease.. interesting responses, also
field of medicine: a medical specialty concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of disorders that have primarily mental or behavioral symptomsand with the care of people having such disorders
Absolutely, the solution is spiritual... but the disease itself is many-fold... mental (psychiatric), physical (craving, THIQ, etc.) and spiritual
-- Edited by jonijoni1 on Sunday 20th of June 2010 07:38:59 PM
so query, for example with diabetes, lower blood sugar results in a lowered or altered level of consciousness, as in a physiological change results in a psychological change, would that be a matter for a psychriatrist?
I'm really asking, like how much of this can we really take to the shrink if half of this falls under the physical manifestation of an allergy? or do we go to the doctor? and if it's spiritual, do we take it to our guru or priest?
Dude, Bill got lucky ya know?
step 1 Silkworth (medical doc) step 2 Carl Jung (psychriatrist) remaining steps (Oxford Group - 1st century Christianity - Spiritual)
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
AGO: I wasn't saying that it is solvable by psychiatrist.... but illnesses that are manifested in thought and behavior are psychiatric illnesses. Alcoholism is however incurable by one who would normally be able to treat psychiatric illness.
Interestingly enough, psychiatry itself is an inexact science. Psychiatrists rarely "cure" anything, but make symptoms more manageable. But as we know, not in the case of alcoholism. So to say that alcoholism is a psychiatric illness (in part) doesn't necessarily mean a psychiatrist can cure it. As stated, a spiritual solution is necessary.
Just because a psychiatrist can't cure it, doesn't mean it's not a psychiatric illness. Just as some cancers can't be cured by an oncologist doesn't mean they are not in fact cancers.
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
AGO: I wasn't saying that it is solvable by psychiatrist.... but illnesses that are manifested in thought and behavior are psychiatric illnesses. Alcoholism is however incurable by one who would normally be able to treat psychiatric illness.
Interestingly enough, psychiatry itself is an inexact science. Psychiatrists rarely "cure" anything, but make symptoms more manageable. But as we know, not in the case of alcoholism. So to say that alcoholism is a psychiatric illness (in part) doesn't necessarily mean a psychiatrist can cure it. As stated, a spiritual solution is necessary.
Just because a psychiatrist can't cure it, doesn't mean it's not a psychiatric illness. Just as some cancers can't be cured by an oncologist doesn't mean they are not in fact cancers.
beg pardon, my point was to engender thought and discussion off of your point, I was asking questions, not implying you thought one thing or another, i was nearly "thinking out loud"
psychiatry is a lot less inexact since the advent of SPECT scans, that is amazing stuff
-- Edited by AGO on Sunday 20th of June 2010 11:18:33 PM
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I saw a psychiatrist through most of my high school/teenage years. When I started college, I discovered alcohol and also discovered I didn't need the psychiatrist anymore.
Since psychiatry had really done nothing for me in my previous experience - other than to maintain a status quo for years - I looked elsewhere for a solution to my "possible drinking problem". As the smart-ass lady on the phone when I called the AA service number said, "You can go to meetings and not drink, or you can pay $10,000 for a treatment program and then go to meetings and not drink".
An ethical psychiatrist will tell you they really can't help a patient that is not willing to be honest with them. Without that, psychiatry really doesn't have much to offer the alcoholic in the way of treatment. It would be an easy trap to fall into. If I had a wife, or employer who was pressuring me to do something about my drinking, I could give it lip service by going to a psychiatrist all the while still drinking.
I'd love to say that on the day I went to my first AA meeting, I was ready to quit drinking and find a new way of living. The truth is, I didn't know anything about any of that stuff. I just found myself in a deepening rut, where my life revolved around alcohol even more so that it had before. I had no desire to go to a psychiatrist, because I saw that is just a way to maintain my rut-digging for who knows how long. I wanted to change *something*. I did the first three steps in the parking lot, in a way. I knew I had a problem, I came to believe there might be a solution inside, and I handed it over when I walked through the door.
If psychiatry had a cure for alcoholism, I'd have been diagnosed, treated, and cured several years before I ever took my first drink. That didn't happen, and I tend to think it has NEVER happened.
Yes it is a psychiatric illness....but it is not called alcoholism. The DSM IV breaks down all substance disorders into abuse and dependency. Alcoholism would typically have progressed to dependency for the great majority of us in AA. Now, with that said, there are plenty of psychiatric illnesses that are not curable by psychiatrists. Mental Retardation, Autism, Personality Disorders, Alzheimers, Vascular Dementia. These are all mental illnesses in that they are classified as causing significant impairment and they drastically limit a person's functioning. Psychiatry as a field is still in it's infancy and the brain is so incredibly complex that psychiatrists simply cannot target specific areas and neurotransmitters (and in which area the neurotransmitters create the disease and how) that no pill can be made that does not have whack side effects. As you know Joni, those of us who need meds for certain conditions do need to take them and accept it is the best thing offered. For alcoholism, it would seem to be a complex polygenetic illness (meaning it probably has markers in the DNA on multiple chromosomes). A pill is not likely to fix the condition without having serious negative effects in some other area...Major areas affected seem to be impulses and moods. A person could take depakote or something and maybe a bit less likely to relapse but they would need to be zombified to have the effect of not having cravings. Also this Naltrexone crap that people have written about on here...well...just wait 5 years and see what kind a lawsuits happen. Acutane was prescribed to tons of teens my age for acne and now it is off the market...why? Chantix is going to go under too and nobody even talks about buproprion/wellbutrin for smoking any more...shrug.
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