Hey give me strength! I have been fortunate,my wife very rarely drinks ,but when she does it doesn't raise any triggers for me.In 84,after I surrendered I believe she purposely didn;t drink for my sake,but I never asked her not to.My DESIRE TO DRINK HAS BEEN ARRESTED(i DONT FOOL MYSELF THOUGH,COMPLACENCY IS THE ENEMY).I would definitely say something especially if It was causing me resentments ,one of our worst enemies.When we put our expectations on other people we are leaving ourselves wide open for "some pain".Its like sharing,we can't get any help if we don't let others know where were at.People arent mind readers,although at times we think"they should know"Congrats on 2 months.You are entering the zone where you will be dealing with many life on life situations without being toasted.Things are going to bother you and the illness is looking for openings!! Stay close to your support in and out of the rooms,say whats on your mind,in a loving and caring manner and it will return to you.We are responsible for our own recovery,whatever it takes.Get with your HP ,TAKE A LOOK INSIDE,SEE WHATS COOKING,ITS USUALLY MORE THAN THE SURFACE IS SHOWING..lET US KNOW HOW ITS GOING....sorry for caps ,cant type and look at same time....

I can relate to Mike's share on this one.  My wife drinks very sporadically and doesn't like to get drunk. 

She's got 4 or 5 bottles of wine in the kitchen that she hasn't even touched and I sometimes wonder... well drink the darn things!  I don't understand why people let booze sit around.

But I don't care if it's in the fridge, in someone else's hand, going down their gullet... if someone is getting drunk and belligerent around me, I'm gone.  I'll leave.  But it bothers me not a bit when someone drinks booze.  Why?

I belong to Alcoholics Anonymous and the program is not about reform, temperance, teetotaling, etc.  I've got nothing against booze today.  I've got an issue or two against loved ones who drink too much... as I did, but they're not an issue for me because I keep myself between them and my car.  Now, if it was my spouse (wife) who had a drinking problem... that would be interesting to me.  I've not seen it in her in over 10 years now.  I'm glad I didn't marry another drunk.  But if I did, I'd cross that bridge when we get there I guess.  I'd worry way more for her than me, I tell you that.  Why?

Because I'm a recovered alcoholic.  Booze is not my problem today.  I'm free from the mental obsession and I'm free from the physical craving of it.  How did I get this way?

I do steps.  Hope you do steps too... all 12 of them.  Read the 10th Step promises and see what it says about it.  It even comes with a caveat... fit spiritual condition.  If I'm not in fit spiritual condition and drink day comes, I've got other problems than what somebody else is drinking.  If I get to the place where I want a drink, I'll get a darned drink.  Then I'll be off and running.  I do steps and go on about my business and God removes the obsession from me to where I don't even want a drink and it's way more than a pink cloud.  Hope you find your way.

I'm not ever going to tell my wife to NOT drink in front of me.  If I did that, I might as well quit A.A. because I've got an alcoholic mind and I'm running the show again and soon I'll be drunk myself anyway.  But if that works for any of you, you're not like me.

I'm not giving anybody advice.  I'm stating my experience in the steps and my own life.  I'm only 6 years sober.  I don't have all the answers.  But I know scores of people with more and less sobriety time than me, all doing the A.A. program, that are the same way.

Hope you get past this and give the steps a chance.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I will reiterate where I am coming from; "I belong to Alcoholics Anonymous and the program"...

As a result of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, I am recovered.  There are traditions that state that I cannot speak for A.A., but we also have a common solution, one with which we can absolutely agree in "brotherly and harmonious action".

I hear some people in an A.A. meeting say, "I am recovering".  I have been shown by their own actions that they are not.  They are saying they are less than they are, this Program does not work, and they are not responsible for their lives, and we cannot ask them to do anything suggested in that book because they are "recovering".

Now, being recovered does not mean I am cured, nor does it mean I'm not still an alcoholic, nor does it mean I can rest on my laurels.

I came to the "12 Step Recovery Forums" for two reasons.  One was because I believe in 12 Step.  Another is that I was asked;

"John F. to me
show details Jun 6 (3 days ago)

Hi McGowdog,

At some point in time you have registered on the Miracles In Progress AA message board.  I would like to simply ask that both new members and old timers take a few minutes to visit the board from time to time to post and reply to the post left by others.  ..."

So, I'll reiterate that I'm not here to give advice.  I'm also not here to debate.  Frankly, I'm very burned out on it.  But this is A.A.  If what I say cannot be reconciled in that book then I'm wrong.

"Just would not want a new comer to think they would some day not be an alcoholic."  I wouldn't want the newcomer or the oldcomer to do that either.  I do steps yearly.  Some live in "maintenance" of their sobriety and hit 10, 11, and 12 pretty hard.  To each his/her own.

Add: The way that I work with newcomers is how I was shown as a newcomer; my sobriety is my responsibility... always.  The ball is in my court and that's the way it will be until I'm dead.  If I drink, it's on me.  I'm also the one who must eat my own bread.  Nobody else can get me or make me stay sober.  If we coddle the newcomer, we do no good.  There again, go read the 10th Step promises, or I'll quote them here if you would like.

-- Edited by McGowdog on Wednesday 9th of June 2010 01:28:46 PM

-- Edited by McGowdog on Wednesday 9th of June 2010 01:35:24 PM

Any Program that relies on shielding the alcoholic from temptation is doomed to failure

For me to get and stay sober I had to change myself and my actions, not anyone else's, I tried drinking at family members to get them to quit, that didn't work, I tried to monitor a sig others drinking, that didn't work either, that just landed me in Alanon

I agree with McGowdog and Mike 100%, every single thing they say, we are recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body as the result of the steps, once we start running the show we aren't so recovered any more, and we are responsible for our own recovery.

Change your playmates, playgrounds etc isn't AA that is NA, The Program of Alcoholics Anonymous states:

Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so.

We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. His only chance for sobriety would be some place like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything! Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory he would escape the alcohol problem.

In our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time, but usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed.

My sobriety is about changing me and my reaction to life, not attempting to control those around me, Like Mike, that doesn't mean I wouldn't or don't communicate what is going on, it's important that I do, but if I have a problem with someone else's drinking, it's my problem, my resentment, not the other person's, thus needs to be my solution, and thus far any attempt at recovery that relies on another person to change their behavior and all my attempts at behavior modification to those around me has ended in dismal and miserable failure with me even worse off then when I started

The 12 and 12 states:

Creation gave us instincts for a purpose. Without them we wouldn't be complete human beings. If men and women didn't exert themselves to be secure in their persons, made no effort to harvest food or construct shelter, there would be no survival. If they didn't reproduce, the earth wouldn't be populated. If there were no social instinct, if men cared nothing for the society of one another, there would be no society. So these desires--for the sex relation, for material and emotional security, and for companionship--are perfectly necessary and right, and surely God-given. Yet these instincts, so necessary for our existence, often far exceed their proper functions. Powerfully, blindly, many times subtly, they drive us, dominate us, and insist upon ruling our lives. Our desires for sex, for material and emotional security, and for an important place in society often tyrannize us. When thus out of joint, man's natural desires cause him great trouble, practically all the trouble there is. No human being, however good, is exempt from these troubles. Nearly every serious emotional problem can be seen as a case of misdirected instinct. When that happens, our great natural assets, the instincts, have turned into physical and mental liabilities. Step Four is our vigorous and painstaking effort to discover what these liabilities in each of us have been, and are. We want to find exactly how, when, and where our natural desires have warped us. We wish to look squarely at the unhappiness this has caused others and ourselves. By discovering what our emotional deformities are, we can move toward their correction. Without a willing and persistent effort to do this, there can be little sobriety or contentment for us. Without a searching and fearless moral inventory, most of us have found that the faith which really works in daily living is still out of reach

We thought "conditions" drove us to drink, and when we tried to correct these conditions and found that we couldn't to our entire satisfaction, our drinking went out of hand and we became alcoholics. It never occurred to us that we needed to change ourselves to meet conditions, whatever they were.

But it is from our twisted relations with family, friends, and society at large that many of us have suffered the most. We have been especially stupid and stubborn about them. The primary fact that we fail to recognize is our total inability to form a true partnership with another human being. Our egomania digs two disastrous pitfalls. Either we insist upon dominating the people we know, or we depend upon them far too much. If we lean too heavily on people, they will sooner or later fail us, for they are human, too, and cannot possibly meet our incessant demands. In this way our insecurity grows and festers. When we habitually try to manipulate others to our own willful desires, they revolt, and resist us heavily. Then we develop hurt feelings, a sense of persecution, and a desire to retaliate. As we redouble our efforts at control, and continue to fail, our suffering becomes acute and constant. We have not once sought to be one in a family, to be a friend among friends, to be a worker among workers, to be a useful member of society. Always we tried to struggle to the top of the heap, or to hide underneath it. This self-centered behavior blocked a partnership relation with any one of those about us. Of true brotherhood we had small comprehension. Some will object to many of the questions posed, because they think their own character defects have not been so glaring. To these it can be suggested that a conscientious examination is likely to reveal the very defects the objectionable questions are concerned with..



-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 9th of June 2010 02:47:12 PM

Thx Susie. Replying from my cell. The ed/ING argument is about the stupidest thing we do when we get bored.

I don't mean to be divisive or create drama with a dumb word. We're on the same team.

Dealing with family sober is tough. This we can agree on.

I just came in from the recovery battlefield and am sorry I can have my defenses up. What battlefield, some may ask? The one that's mostly in my head. I want to come in here and chill.

Where's the lemonade?

Hi Give Me Strength. I bet you didn't expect such a discussion based on your simple question! I am glad you posted it, because it is something I've been thinking about recently. I have a little experience, strength and hope that I can share about this topic.

First, I got sober when I was 17 years old and had no choice but to live in a house with active alcoholism. It is possible to get sober with alcohol in your home, I am living proof of that. I can also say that it made it harder, more painful, and if I had a choice I wouldn't have done it that way. Early sobriety is rough enough as it is!

I am 25 years sober, and I can honestly say that the desire to drink has been removed from me for many years. That also does not mean that I will never drink again! I have been married to a non-alcoholic for three years, and he does drink on occasion. He will NEVER understand what it means to be alcoholic, just like I will NEVER truly understand what it means to be a normal drinker. He has told me point-blank that he would give up drinking if it stood in the way of our relationship, and I have told him that doesn't have to happen. I have been around alcohol a lot since I've been sober, both in work and social situations, and it has never been a real problem. But in my experience, it is slightly different with a spouse. I don't kiss my friends who drink, and I've let my husband know that I don't like to kiss him when he has alcohol on his breath. (I also once dated someone who was severely allergic to peanut butter and we had the same discussion!). Also, I have found that we aren't "on the same page" when he has been drinking and I haven't, and that I feel less close to him at those times. I had this happen over Memorial Day weekend when he decided he hasn't had margaritas in years and bought a bottle. He drank it over the weekend and I just didn't want to be as close to him. I struggle with that, because I don't want to be that way. But I am, and I have to be honest about it, so it makes me appreciate this post even more.

I am very clear that it is MY problem, not his, but with married people who have a good relationship, problems are often shared. I need to be completely honest with him about ME, including what is going on with my recovery, which always has to come first. And I have learned NEVER to be cocky about being around alcohol, I may have had the desire to drink removed but that doesn't mean I should be ashamed if alcohol (or drugs) bothers me in some way - I'd rather be embarrassed but honest about not wanting to be around alcohol and stay sober than cocky about my strong recovery and end up drinking. I have a friend who had a very long time sober who ended up drinking and when he came back he said that his life became normal, so he started to think that he was normal. I am NOT normal when it comes to alcohol - I never will be. I CAN get sober regardless of the circumstances, but in my opinion why would I push something that makes me uncomfortable or my recovery harder?

So my humble opinion - do what makes you feel most comfortable with your own recovery! Let us know how this goes, and thanks for this post I really appreciate it.