Disclaimer: This is not my writing but it is interesting and as an Alcoholic I can identify with it.
Larry, -------------------
Why Binge Drinkers Are The Hardest Alcoholics To Treat
Binge drinkers typically don't drink every day, or drink continuously like most alcoholics. Instead, they tend to binge during certain periods of time, typically on weekends. And ironically, they tend to be the hardest to get into treatment and to treat once they're there. That's because the binge drinker gives the illusion to both themselves and others that they're not really addicted. Their rationale or line of thinking is, "Hey, I'm able to stop drinking for weeks at a time, how can I be addicted?"
But again, we must remember that drinking is only the symptom of the problem, not the problem. And if you never believed it before, the existence of binge drinkers is proof-positive that there are different "types" of alcoholics.
So true, for years I fooled myself into thinking I was not an alcoholic precisely because I was a binge drinker. But the gaps between teh binges got shorter and the length of the binges got longer until it became one long endless binge and underneath all that, there was my three legged illness, mentally ill, physically ill and spiritually ill.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
The hardest alcoholic to treat is the one still in denial no matter what type of alcoholic they are, I understand the line of reasoning that binge drinkers hang on to their denial the longest it's just not my experience, because binge drinkers frequently suffer catastrophic consequences that "stand out" more as the result of their drinking as opposed the more "practiced" alcoholics that are "better" at it, are used to the consequences of drinking, drinking and it's consequences have become a way of life for them, and they have a better built in system of denial in place, such as having "lower companions" in place, even spouses, so they can point and say "I'm not that bad, look at them".
For every ten types of alcoholic, there are a million excuses
just my .02
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I tried AA for about four meetings about five odd years ago. At the time, I really was a binge drinker. I only heard stories about folks having two or three bottles of Vodka a day and popping pills and doing top up drinking in the morning (let me explain that below).
Well, heck, smart-alec that I am, I'm thinking: "I don't go into the pubs every day. Maybe I drink too sometimes, but it's not every day. I can sort it out myself."
And here's something you've never heard before (kidding): I stopped coming back.
When I crawled back four and half years later, needless to say, I was going to the pub every day.
I literally cannot remember any of the shares from any of the non-sub-low-bottom members of the groups that I went to during that stint. My denial literally blacked out anything but the worst war stories and made me honestly believe that I could control my drinking, "since I wasn't like those losers."
Guaranteed sobriety fail. :)
Steve
-- Edited by SteveP on Thursday 27th of May 2010 03:53:01 PM
Started out as a weekend partier. then it was drinking more during the week. then it was pretineer every other day.
I can only remember drinking 2 days in a row one time. And thats only cuz some drunken friends of mine made me, lol.
I remember being at a meeting one time listening to others share about how they drank every day. How some of them had that glass of vodka or beer by the bed in case they woke up in the night.
I never did that.
After the meeting I was outside talking to some of these folks and my brain started second guessing me. I actually began to think to myself ... hmmmmm - Maybe you really aren't an alcoholic cuz you didnt drink like these ppl.
It didnt take me long to realize ( after a few more drunks ) that I was in fact a real alcoholic just the book says.
-- Edited by ljc on Thursday 27th of May 2010 09:07:23 PM
Yes, it always seems harder for the person who only drank a few days a month or maybe even less to understand that they would need 90 meetings in 90 days and commit to a totally new way of life.
All types of alcoholism are bad but this type is particulary horrible.
They can to recover if they have they are capable of being honest, want what we have, and are willing to go to any lengths.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I was a typical binge alcoholic.......in fact, I wished at times I were better at being a functional alcoholic everyday!! How some of my partners in insanity were able to keep themselves boozed up without looking that way----oh, the alcoholic who keeps the amount of booze in their system without tipping the balance into a black-out---could you imagine the energy they expend keeping in balance/keeping drunk!! Yikes---that's why when sober-----most of us realize how being more present and more productive is better!! We unleash the energy wasted in being wasted and staying wasted!! The ability to not face consequences while binge drinking was not there.......because I made such a complete and total mess while practicing the boozing!! As far as who is the hardest drunk to get to recovery......I have no clue----every drunk is different......we're just similar in not being able to drink alcohol without horrible consequences and sometimes near death experiences.
Interesting to note that most of the replies by recover(ed)(ing) alcoholics on this sober forum about how difficult it is to treat binge drinkers are by recovering binge drinkers
Which is why I don't agree with the fact they are the hardest to treat
Proof is in the pudding
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I'm with you AGO, the "treatment" is the same. It's the student that varies. Once the binge drinker evolves into a maintenance drinker and suffers the consequences/losses people, places, and things, they become willing "as a drowning man reaching for a life preserver" would be. Ah the gifts of desperation and willingness.
Because binge drinkers lie to themselves, I am not talking about the woman who drinks 4 times a year and pukes and gets completely inebriated. That to me is an amateur with no tolerance. I am talking about the weekend warrior, like myself who gets drunk every weekend and holiday and has all the problems of the daily communicant, : depression caused by the alcohol, cravings, withdrawal symptoms and anxiety. I have been sober 13 days and the anxiety and depression are non existent now. I drank every weekend for 35 yr years. I was the biggest liar to myself , I am Alcoholic to the bone, just because I have a job and don't drink everyday does not change that, stop lying to yourself binge drinkers, look in the mirror and get help.
Bunchie
I am not sure....but I think me being an everyday drinker like I was, I felt a ton of anxiety when I stopped. This last bout with insanity, the anxiety was horrible. I am better now and all I have to do to keep any anxiety I feel down to a low level, is not worry about people, places and things as much. I just noticed you mentioned before about not having much anxiety (which is GREAT!) and I thought that was amazing because I remembered how much I have had when I quit. So I am wondering if since binge drinkers don't have as much alcohol built up for years and years like everyday drinkers if that has something to do with it.
Interesting posts, Bunchie.
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Thanks, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Believe me all it take is one night out and my anxiety and depression will return alcohol is a depressant, and the anxiety I think was my frazzled nerves lack of good sleep, poor eating habits no exercise besides work, all I know now is I feel very little and I know it will return with one date with JohnBarleycorn. I also know or found out at a meeting is my anxiety was my body rebelling against the alcohol, all sorts of confusion in my brain caused by withdrawals, which I have been going through every week for 35 u ears between stupors. How stupid was I, lol I'm looking forward to years of a clean mind ,soul, and body.
Thanks Python and Leave the rest you guys are helping me.
Bunchie
I had a little anxiety last night watching my kid pitch, he is 16 and pitched a great game and I can honestly say it was the most enjoyable time I have had in I can't even remember. In the past I was so pent up with anxiety and irritably that I never enjoyed the moment.Thank God and God bless whatever made me want to change.
Bunchie
Sober baseball is real and more vivid drunkenness fills your whole existence with a fog of lies ; whether being drunk or fighting the after effects .
A good life is made up of the 'little things' we take for granted ... with alcohol in the picture, we totally miss them ... congrats for recognizing that watch'n your son is what life is 'really' all about ... it not only helps you, but the impression on your son's attitude will be 'priceless' ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
LOL LTR, ... I thought about it, then said 'oh what the hell, I can do it ... I had to see what books I could find to list for Bunchie ... I got to get ready for this afternoon's appt soon and didn't want to chance not get'n this done ...
Okay, I'm start'n to realize I just have to wait till after surgery to tackle such projects ... I cannot believe what is happen'n to me ... I pray the surgeon get's this thing right ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
You're going to make me cry, now, Pappy. Going through all you are with your heart and planning your upcoming surgery and you are going up stairs to look up bunches of books for Bunchie.
OK......very sweet and kind of you....please cut it out though. (sorry Bunchie, no offense about the books but you stick around this board long enough and you will see just how special this man is!!!)
I am so glad to hear that you are going to wait to get anything else like that until you get your heart taken care of. I know you are used to being very busy and getting alot of projects taken care of. I know it must be difficult for you to not be able to do that and I cannot imagine what you are going through. Just try and use this time doing more relaxing things and resting as much as possible. OK???
There might be things you can ask your surgeon to help ease your concerns and don't be shy about asking them and letting him or her know you are concerned. You're going to be fine. Just take extra good care of yourself, dear one.
Love you.
Hi Python ,please do not go up stairs for me, I am reading big book now and there is plenty to digest in that, and I will be getting to the Jung book next. I have all I can handle right now, you concentrate on getting your heart taken care of , I know your special I love your posts I have been showing them to my alcoholic friends at AA, some should be visiting our board soon. I am grateful for having someone like you to offer encouragement and support ,Leavetherest you too,; you people are helping me immensely.
God BlessYou Guys,
Bunchie
I me t a guy at AA who has been sober for 3 years, but said in that time he went out and drank 3 times to see if he could just drink 2 drinks and go home. He told me he did, and went home. Then continued to go to meetings and a few months later did the same thing. I asked him what brings you to AA then he replied it keeps him grounded. He does not mention this at meetings and as far as I know he says he has been sober for 3 u years. This bothers me, first he is being dishonest and secondly he thinks it's ok to have a few and then attend meetings. He actually told me he drank daily before AA but said he had an opiate problem as well and now believes that the only reason he drank was to quell the cravings for opiates.Is this believable and don't they have meetings for opiate addicts. He told me they were not as thorough as AA meetings.Anyone have any thoughts on this.
There are all kinds of people in AA meetings, and some of them have unusual ideas about all sorts of things (I hear that many of then used to have a serious drinking problem at one time!)
I don't know what this person's situation is, or whether this person is even an alcoholic, but it is not at all what is typical in AA.
Bunchie, I strongly recommend that instead of looking for explanations for the exceptions, you just get yourself a good AA sponsor who has lots of experience working the 12 steps of AA and who has the kind of serenity and sobriety in his life that you want for yourself, and just work with this person and do what he did so you'll get what he got.
Hi Bunchie....
If that guy you mentioned drank even one gulp of alcohol during anytime during those three years, he did not stay sober for that amount of time.
I cannot judge or worry about what anyone else does in or out of AA. Not my problem. The AA meetings are open to any alcoholic. I know that when I was having a hard time I would drink a day or more, go to meetings then end up drinking again. I was trying to help myself by getting to the meetings. I never went drunk and I never lied about my sobriety time. Others doing those things are not my problem and as long as someone doesn't come in drunk and disruptive I don't care. And if it bothers me if they do, I can hit the door and go to another meeting. Life's short and my sobriety time can be shorter if I let things bother me like I used to.
To me, this guy exhibits all the traits of an 'alcoholic' personality ... he 'cons' himself into believe'n that he alone has the power to control his drink'n with just a few successful attempts at stay'n sober ... this is the guy with a problem that has not experienced hit'n 'rock bottom' like many of us have ... his 'lesson' is yet to come, oh but it will ... I just pray he survives it ....
I actually did what he did, a few times ... I would go 2 to 3 weeks and only have two drinks after work ... THEN, I always started think'n, I can handle another one ... so, 2 become 3, then 4 or 5, then I couldn't keep count ... it was 'off to the races' and soon pass'n out on the couch for 12 hours at a time ... we never concour alcohol by ourselves, we always need help ... and until we get to the point we are 'Spiritually Fit', we can never let up our guard ... and then we must remain vigilant and stay in close daily contact with our HP ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Sorry davep12 and12 I forgot to thank you as well, I have been going to meetings I am new and I found a couple of meetings I felt comfortable in i think I will attend those regularly the next couple of weeks and then decide on which one will be by priority meeting. I will still attend other meetings it's good to meet new people and hear different perspectives. The one thing that baffles me about the guy lying about his sobriety is, Why did he tell me? He must think I am going to be one of the short timers that does not continue, nothing could be further from the truth I am going to remain steadfast on keeping sober. I am going to steer clear of him.
Hey no problem, bunchie! Yeah I understand that kind of alcoholic self-dishonesty that would drive people like us to attempt such an 'experiment', and the strange obsession with trying to prove to ourselves that we will somehow, some day control and enjoy our drinking. There's lots of information about exactly this topic in Chapter 3 of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous". But it's just weird that he would be telling people about it and also claiming to have three years of sobriety.
BTW, When I was new, I found that it made a huge difference if I went to a LOT of meetings, like 90 meetings in 90 days. It really got me involved in AA and comfortable in the meetings quickly, and it helped to get to know a lot of good sober people as quickly as possible. You may want to try something like that for a while and see how that feels. It's far better to go to a few extra meetings than to go to too few meetings.
Hey Bunchie....
I am not good at giving advice to others....however I strongly suggest you not share what that man told you with anyone in your meetings. Unfortunately, people in and out of AA eat that stuff up and just would hate for anything to end up causing you more stress. I share right much on this board about what has happened to me.(You prob. figured that one out already). When I go to meetings I listen and keep my mouth shut and when others have had the need to come up and share what this person or that person said or did, I try not to comment or say as very little as I possibly can so I am not contributing to the story. And being on the receiving end of some malicious gossip, I had to learn the hard way that it is very important for me to choose my friends very carefully in AA. Pappy is probably the closest friend I have in AA. (Don't-cha feel special, now Pappy???? LOL!)
Thanks LTR, great advice, I do preety much what you said already. I will stay away from him if I see him again, I only see him at the weekend meeting I go to, and when leaving he asked to go to coffee and we did, and that conversation transpired. I am not going to say anything to anyone he is only cheating himself and like Pappy said he is heading for a train wreck so to speak. In my opinion if he is at a meeting, which means he has a problem, he just thinks he does not anymore or he his trying to figure out if he does, I don't know all I know is I have a problem and I want to stop it before it stops me.
Darn! You're on to me, Pappy!
just kidding back...however, you are as sweet as your delicious Pear Butter--and I'm not just saying that trying to "butter you up"!
