Disclaimer: This is not my writing but it is interesting and as an Alcoholic I can identify with it.
Larry, -------------------
The Alcoholic And Anxiety
The alcoholic is in a constant cycle of getting high and coming down, with brief periods at their optimum comfort level, or buzz.The result is an almost constant state of swinging between anxiety and depression.The anxiety is usually minor to medium level, and we sometimes refer to it as free-floating anxiety.This is a state less severe than a panic attack and actually somewhat different in that it generally lasts longer and is not associated or attached to a particular event.
Once theyre in treatment and able to talk about it rationally, many alcoholics will describe this phenomenon as similar to having a tape playing over and over in their head at high speed, or like the wheel inside a hamsters cage turning round and round and going nowhere.Its a case of the mind being all dressed up, but with nowhere to go.It is not a good feeling.The alcohol is taken to relieve the anxiety which for a time, it does.But once that wears off, remorse and depression follow, which creates the beginning of the cycle again.
I have the fear of fear! I have a history of panic attacks, and free floating anxiety, and crippling depression. Whether sober or still practicing...so I have learned some of it may be due to PAWS, often times it has been "just because" whatever that means, because I suffered with anxiety,before I crossed the line into alcoholism,or ever drank. As a matter of fact, I think sometimes I may have had the predispostion to develope into a full blown alcoholic, I do not think I would have ever picked up the stuff without my seeking some kind of relief from my anxiety.
Anxiety is a vicious cycle as well as alcoholism. I just realised, I have a lot of work to do on myself. When I became stuck in the program I could not see the forest for the trees, but now that I am getting better again, some insight is coming back. Slowly but surely.
Larry, Yes, interesting post. I to suffered from Anxiety and Depression prior to picking up a drink. The drink(my solution) worked effectively for many years, but then stopped working and the Anxiety and Depression became woarse. I didn't realize until I came into AA that these were all symptoms of my condition; alcoholism. The other night at a meeting a guy described this Anxiety pheonomenon as standing in the TV section at Best Buy and they're all on different channels and then turn it up. That's what it was like for me most days at the end. Then the drink....... the spritual loss of values....... Then the guilt, remoarse, hopelessness and depression just buried me. But for the grace of God there was a solution when I became ready. By doing the steps and working the program I've had a Spritual Awakening and many of these symptoms are now gone or they are less significant in my life. The promises have come true and keep getting better as long as I do the work.
apologies if this is a bit off topic. but i would really like to keep this and not delete. i went a bit crazy
i had regular anxiety attacks and depression since being a teen. and i guess i was very messed up also, in my late twenties i got spontaneous recovered memories of being abused as a child. (someone close to me dying triggered those to come to the surface, prior to that i had no recall of them) when that happened the crap really hit the fan.
I had to get therapy and i was drinking an alwful lot. then i got into aa, and i was still suffering anxiety attacks, PTSD symptoms, depressionetc badly for a few years actually. for me i needed outside help to help deal with those outside issues the anxiety, ptsd symptoms depression etc. for me i have found it hard near impossible to say for somethings, what is my acoholism the ISM and what is the effects of my childhood trauma. I think the trauma had a major massive role in shaping who i am, it has effected me badly in every aspect of my life. im still in therapy almost a decade down the line (had a few years break though) and im still healing. not saying that to sound dramatic its just the truth. anyways.
Maybe i have an ISM personality to top it all off also. where i get a bit concerned is i dont want to start thinking, well the abuse stuff effected me more than it would a regular normal person. that is really self destructive thinking as survivors often blame themselves and im not going there.
i guess it doesnt matter really why i have anxiety etc as long as i keep trying to get well (AA program and outside help for me) and i dont drink.
i rember some members telling me the reason why i was still having anxiety attacks and anxiety was because i hadnt done my 4/5 steps right. this was down right rude and disgusting. they knew the general thing about my history. and it was not because i hadnt of donw my steps properly. sometimes outside causes, cause people trouble and the steps are not the total answer to it all.
i also get a bit miffed sometimes when i see people saying oh you can tell who has good soberity because they are happy. well whatever LOL. I have had all this outside issue crap to deal with and excuse me if i am crying in meetings ive just had all this traumatic crap to deal with. it doesnt make my soberity any less than someone elses. if anything i am doing my program good to not be drinking on this stuff. anyways its not my business what other people think of me.
/end rant. ive never been able to say this before i guess its a bit off topic.
i guess i dont need to know what sypmtoms is from my disease and what is from my childhood trauma. i guess a lot of the symptoms over lap. I just try and get as much help as possible.
AA saved my life but also other help did. well without AA i would have nothing no chance of healing or living at all.
But if people tell me im not doing it right otherwise my 'ism' symptoms would be gone, well they dont know what they are talking about. I am not saying anyone here has said that. no way. Its kind of similar to when members try telling others to not take antidepressants etc. its downright dangerous to say that to people.
Also i know i used to drink to numb painful emotions, i used to drink to get rid of the constant feared up feeling i was in. it was the only time i felt at ease, when i was drunk. otherwise i was in low level anxiety nearly all the time, sprinkled with regular big anxiety attacks, constant worry and often huge fears of things. That is interesting but i also think i drank when i wasnt in fear and needing relief, like i just loved to drink.
-- Edited by slugcat on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 05:05:05 PM
Good stuff, Larry. I can totally relate to every word of it. Every time I drink after saying I won't it's been a crescendo of anxiety and obsession that can only be released by drinking, which is always following by depression. Then, the cycle continues...
When I first tried to get sober in AA back in 02' I went to see my doctor and told her I was alcoholic and trying to stop drinking. I also told her I was feeling alot of panic and anxiety and thought I needed a 'relaxer' type of med. lolol. She said, " Well, that would only be trading one addiction for another ".
I agreed and told her ... " yeah, but taking a pill would be much better than getting drunk ".
She wrote me a script for Xanax. I never finished the bottle of 30 over a years time.
When I suffered my last drunk in 04' I told my sponsor I was scarred and felt I still needed something to curb the anxiety of getting sober.
Her reply was this ... Lori, I am not a doctor and dont claim to be one either. But why dont you try using God and the 12 steps without any meds for a year, and then after a year if you still feel like you need something, then by all means, see your doctor.
I havent needed anything but God, the 12 steps and the fellowship of AA since my last drunk in 04' and for that Im very, very, very thankful !!
apologies if this is a bit off topic. but i would really like to keep this and not delete. i went a bit crazy
i had regular anxiety attacks and depression since being a teen. and i guess i was very messed up also, in my late twenties i got spontaneous recovered memories of being abused as a child. (someone close to me dying triggered those to come to the surface, prior to that i had no recall of them) when that happened the crap really hit the fan.
I had to get therapy and i was drinking an alwful lot. then i got into aa, and i was still suffering anxiety attacks, PTSD symptoms, depressionetc badly for a few years actually. for me i needed outside help to help deal with those outside issues the anxiety, ptsd symptoms depression etc. for me i have found it hard near impossible to say for somethings, what is my acoholism the ISM and what is the effects of my childhood trauma. I think the trauma had a major massive role in shaping who i am, it has effected me badly in every aspect of my life. im still in therapy almost a decade down the line (had a few years break though) and im still healing. not saying that to sound dramatic its just the truth. anyways.
Maybe i have an ISM personality to top it all off also. where i get a bit concerned is i dont want to start thinking, well the abuse stuff effected me more than it would a regular normal person. that is really self destructive thinking as survivors often blame themselves and im not going there.
i guess it doesnt matter really why i have anxiety etc as long as i keep trying to get well (AA program and outside help for me) and i dont drink.
i rember some members telling me the reason why i was still having anxiety attacks and anxiety was because i hadnt done my 4/5 steps right. this was down right rude and disgusting. they knew the general thing about my history. and it was not because i hadnt of donw my steps properly. sometimes outside causes, cause people trouble and the steps are not the total answer to it all.
i also get a bit miffed sometimes when i see people saying oh you can tell who has good soberity because they are happy. well whatever LOL. I have had all this outside issue crap to deal with and excuse me if i am crying in meetings ive just had all this traumatic crap to deal with. it doesnt make my soberity any less than someone elses. if anything i am doing my program good to not be drinking on this stuff. anyways its not my business what other people think of me.
/end rant. ive never been able to say this before i guess its a bit off topic.
i guess i dont need to know what sypmtoms is from my disease and what is from my childhood trauma. i guess a lot of the symptoms over lap. I just try and get as much help as possible.
AA saved my life but also other help did. well without AA i would have nothing no chance of healing or living at all.
But if people tell me im not doing it right otherwise my 'ism' symptoms would be gone, well they dont know what they are talking about. I am not saying anyone here has said that. no way. Its kind of similar to when members try telling others to not take antidepressants etc. its downright dangerous to say that to people.
Also i know i used to drink to numb painful emotions, i used to drink to get rid of the constant feared up feeling i was in. it was the only time i felt at ease, when i was drunk. otherwise i was in low level anxiety nearly all the time, sprinkled with regular big anxiety attacks, constant worry and often huge fears of things. That is interesting but i also think i drank when i wasnt in fear and needing relief, like i just loved to drink.
-- Edited by slugcat on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 05:05:05 PM
Slugcat,
I can relate completely. I don't think you were off topic at all. I think it is as you said...this (disease) ISM "overlaps"with many other things.
I have Panic Disorder, but have improved quite a bit over the years. I went from leaving shopping carts full at the grocery to running into businesses asking them to call and ambulance, to ER, and many doctors before I finally found the right doctor who put me on a tricyclic antidepressant, thus blocking the panic. However, at one time I was convinced it was a physical problem. I could not believe, that it was all in my head... brain overfiring,fright or flight response.etc. Early stimulant abuse on my part could not have helped either, nor did past trauma. As I said, before as you...overlaps one and another. I've heard some of the same stuff(critic-isms you mentioned) in and around AA, saying it was all because I was withdrawing from booze,etc. It was awful for me then. Added misery. That was one of the reasons I think I fell short early on. Thanks, J
hi Janet, man that sounds rough. i also have been taken into hospital the ER for that reason. I used to think i was dying having a heart attack. it feels really real. i likw what you say about brain over firing fright or flight response. i agree drug and booze abuse didnt help me either, though i used to think it did, when i was drunk i felt calm and not scared. of course the hangover made me feel even more anxious though.
im really sorry you have had the same critic-isms but i am grateful you posted because it means im not the only one.
interestingly i was verge of a full scale panic attack yesterday where i work i was walking to get lunch. i was feeling really sick, headaches and the panic was there really suddenly. i get them where i cant stop shaking like really big shaking like huge cold shivers but really big and crying. shaking and crying fits. managed to hold it together but almost had one right there on the pavement outside work. I dont know what that is really. is it a anxiety attack or some kind of emotional flashback i dont know. How are yours do you still get them? I am not on medication i have been in the past though. I think with time they have gotten fewer and fewer but still rotten when they happen. I also think if i picked up a drink they would start up all the time again i think it is connected somehow even though it is overlapped with other causes.
I think it is sad people get told anxiety disorders are because of booze withdrawl that must of been horrible. I hope you didnt suffer with that long but got doctors help fast. I was really lucky when i came in teh rooms i had a good sponsor who said do what the doctors and shrinks recommend. but i have had one since then tell me to not go onto meds, but to up my meetings instead. I fired her. I think thats so dangerous.
Fortunately i have only had a few instances of that kind of thing , most people seem really reasonable and support following doctors orders, not putting every single thing down to having the steps as a cure. When i was told to not go on meds it happened when i had some sober time up, so i wasnt that vunerable to these bad dangerous self proclaimed doctors 'advice'. It still upset me though.
-- Edited by slugcat on Thursday 13th of May 2010 11:59:38 AM
hi Janet, man that sounds rough. i also have been taken into hospital the ER for that reason. I used to think i was dying having a heart attack. it feels really real. i likw what you say about brain over firing fright or flight response. i agree drug and booze abuse didnt help me either, though i used to think it did, when i was drunk i felt calm and not scared. of course the hangover made me feel even more anxious though.
im really sorry you have had the same critic-isms but i am grateful you posted because it means im not the only one.
interestingly i was verge of a full scale panic attack yesterday where i work i was walking to get lunch. i was feeling really sick, headaches and the panic was there really suddenly. i get them where i cant stop shaking like really big shaking like huge cold shivers but really big and crying. shaking and crying fits. managed to hold it together but almost had one right there on the pavement outside work. I dont know what that is really. is it a anxiety attack or some kind of emotional flashback i dont know. How are yours do you still get them? I am not on medication i have been in the past though. I think with time they have gotten fewer and fewer but still rotten when they happen. I also think if i picked up a drink they would start up all the time again i think it is connected somehow even though it is overlapped with other causes.
I think it is sad people get told anxiety disorders are because of booze withdrawl that must of been horrible. I hope you didnt suffer with that long but got doctors help fast. I was really lucky when i came in teh rooms i had a good sponsor who said do what the doctors and shrinks recommend. but i have had one since then tell me to not go onto meds, but to up my meetings instead. I fired her. I think thats so dangerous.
Fortunately i have only had a few instances of that kind of thing , most people seem really reasonable and support following doctors orders, not putting every single thing down to having the steps as a cure. When i was told to not go on meds it happened when i had some sober time up, so i wasnt that vunerable to these bad dangerous self proclaimed doctors 'advice'. It still upset me though.
-- Edited by slugcat on Thursday 13th of May 2010 02:27:59 AM
Slugcat, Janet here...
Yes, unfortunately I suffered intensly for years with Panic Disorder. I do not see how I managed to work for 6-7 yrs.,yet I did. It was survival is all I know. Drinking made it worse, and I do not know why. Forget smoking pot anymore then. It was horrible for me. I finally saw a segment on panic disorder on Good Morning America with reference numbers to call. I was sober then too. I did not want to go on meds. I was afraid I might go back to drinking again. And I definitely did not want any Benzo's. The Psychiatrist who treated me, specialized in Panic Disorder. I was very lucky. It took me trying two different antidepressants, before finding the one that worked. The doctor assured me that the drug was very low for abuse. And it was and is. I cannot even tell I take it,except I no longer suffer with nameless panic/ just some mild anxiety on occasion. I have been taking these anti-deppresants for 15 plus yrs. now. The doctor told me it may be for the rest of my life, or the meds may teach the chemicals in the stem of my brain to stay where should be. I have gradually had the dosage decreased, and am now on a low dose. Thank goodness, I thought for awhile there I did not want to live, if I had to live like that. I tried skydiving,and everything to prove to myself that I really wasn't in constant terror. I just wanted relief. I was never delusional, yet I was thinking about taking a shotgun to my head. Real psychiatric (I hate calling it that,but that it must be) disorders can cause a lot of suffering and misery for the individual, and I certainly feel for anyone who has it and often much more severly in other forms. My psychiatrist said to me,when I voiced my concern over taking such a drug being an alcoholic...he said, look at it this way: "Be thankful instead, that there are medications such as this to treat you." 'Like a diabetic," he said. Humm, I had heard that last one before,lol. Anyway, today I am very thankful I do not suffer as I once did. I feel just normal or as normal as a recovering person can feel,lol. I still have mood swings, emotional sensitivities, and all that stuff but it is now much more managable and seemingly much more in the normal sense.
I'm thankful to be sober today. What do they call having two diagnosis such as mental and alcoholic? I think it is called duo-diagnosis, or dual? I never liked the thought of having a mental disorder, if not but for the stigma attached. Today though, I do not give it much thought, as I have greatly improved. I want to believe it had more to do with a physicality problem within the brain. One doctor called it petit mal seizures. Today, I do not care what they call it, as long as I am not suffering. I am now more free to work the program, or anything else I need to do in life.
Thanks for sharing Slugcat. You would be surprised to know, that panic/anxiety disorders are some of most common psychiatric problems suffered anywhere.
Janet
P.S. What I think now is: If I were to be having a Real Heart Attack would I even know it?l Just something else to give thought too,lol. Life sometimes is h*ll! Best wishes to you.
-- Edited by janet on Thursday 13th of May 2010 08:34:25 AM
I have been going through the posts I found this old one, I find it a little bit different from my anxiety. I have never had a panic attack before I became alcoholic or after, but being a huge binge drinker I would suffer anxiety and depression between weekends. However my anxiety felt like nerves being fried like bacon on a frying pan. Loud noises would disturb me, my wife would tell me about something: a chore, a bill needing to be paid or just getting the kids back and forth where they needed to be. Basic simple things would freak me out, my job things that I have done for years became difficult, I made them difficult over reacting and over thinking and sometimes just head to the bar to squash a couple of beers down to relieve stress, that was not really stress it was alcohol induced anxiety and depression. I have been sober 14 days and the anxiety is not what it used to be and the depressing affects of alcohol are gone. My wife asks me to do things now and I do them without bickering or putting them off for another day. So if some of you are new to sobriety and feeling you need medication for it, I suggest to try living sober without it and it might work. However I am aware everyone is different and some became alcoholic because of anxiety and depression believe me I am not at all trying to disrespect those that have to continue on with medication, I know for some its needed, I am just trying to bring to light for some that medication might not be needed and talk it over with their doctor.
