Let me hear it from you fellows...Anyone experience crosstalk jabber during the opening protocol of your meetings specifically during the reading of "how it works" when just before the reader mentions "the point is..." someone shouts out "So what's the point?" or "the point is..." That has been happening locally at a couple meetings where it is put up with and which to some degree or more has become pretty daily useage. The person(s) doing it has totally ignorned the no cross talk request and personal visits from other members. It's toxic and an AA member spouse is also enabling it by not speaking up to it. The issue of Principles before personalities flys right over their heads. In their meetings I have spoken up a couple of times one to the meeting and one to the perp and then turned it over however...this last Sunday it happened in my home meeting where it rarely if ever happens and we took it up as one issue in the business meeting. One of our members had an anxiety attack at the suggestion that it be addressed in favor of the principles and the rest of the group wanted to table it for a month till the next meeting (that is where we are at right now) and seemed not willing to address it. This is not one of those meetings that I will just let it go as I am invested as the co-founder from 16 years ago. The major perp is not an AA member but an old timers spouse and agrees that it is a compulsion.
I'd like feedback from the MIP family. It's disturbing!! I'm listening.
Jerry, Open meeting, right? I don't think I've ever been to an open meeting where a non AA person has come, unless it was a speaker meeting. Just curious...
Anyway, there are some meetings I've been to where people do things similar to this. (I.e., the Trusted Servant will say, "What you say here, what you see here, stays here." and everyone will say "Here, here!") That doesn't bother me because everyone says it and it's not one person trying to stand out. So, I think what you're saying would bother me, too... If it were common practice for everyone, in unison, to say something it might be different. But, it's a different story when someone has the floor and, perhaps unknowingly, will have someone interupt. It's hard enough for some people to read or speak in front of the group anyway.
Jerry, I am not trying to be rude, here, I really am not. And I like the heck out of you. But what is bothersome about this to the degree that you are upset? I want to know so I can understand where you are coming from! Thanks!
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
What Does 'Crosstalk' Have to Do with Our Primary Purpose?
From Box 459 - published bi-monthly by General Services Office of Alcoholics Anonymous
Just what is this thing called "crosstalk"? Why are concerned A.A.s writing to the General Service Office for clarification about it? And, bottom line, what does it have to do with our primary purpose: "to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety"?
The word has been with us at least since 1887. Webster's l0th Edition defines crosstalk as "unwanted signals in a communication channel caused by transference of energy from another circuit"-as when, for instance, two members sitting side by side at an A.A. meeting carry on a private, yet not so quiet, conversationor when one member interrupts another rudely or inappropriately. But this is not the kind of crosstalk that members are asking about; specifically, it is traceable to a list of guidelines for behavior at A-A. meetings --erroneously attributed to "World Service"- that appears in 1992 in a central office newsletter and has since been reprinted and circulated more widely.
The guidelines state, in part, that "Any comments, negative or positive, about another's share, experience, life, program or remarks are crosstalk--that is interfer-ence."..."The only appropriate comment about anyone else's share--a speaker's or another member's--is 'Thank you for your share.'" "A member may talk about his or her own experience as it relates directly or indirectly to another's share, but should not refer to that person's share. Even comments such as 'When you talk about... it reminded me of my own experience...' are possibly inappropriate."
The so-called guidelines did not emanate from the General Service Office. What random investigation reveals is that they may have filtered into some A.A. groups through members who also attend other Twelve Step recovery groups. For example:
(1) In its literature, one fellowship includes a boxed item head, "Suggested Announcement Regarding Crosstalk & Feedback (adopted (1/13/87)." It reads: "In sharing during meetings, we proceed in an orderly, respectful manner. The chairperson (or speaker) will call on people to share. We do not interrupt one another or engage in discussion-this is called 'crosstalk' While we encourage expressions of identification with a speak-er and appreciation for speakers, we also do not judge or comment on what people say or tell them what to do-this is called 'feedback'"
(2) Another anonymous organization, in its "Suggested Meeting Format," asks attendees "to please not interrupt someone else's sharing, not to make comments about other people's statements... and to talk only about yourself"
Although many self-help groups emulate A.A.'s Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, their practices often differ from ours in other respects. As they may have discovered in adapting the A.A. program to their own needs, what's sauce for the goose may be poison for the gander. Says Anne T., of Rome, New York, who belongs to AA. and also attends meetings of a different fellowship: "From the very beginning, one drunk talking to another has made the A.A. program go round. But in meetings (of the other fellowship), I feel, it makes sense to refrain from crosstalk. People are trying to free them-selves from extraordinary shame. When someone shares in response to something I've said, that's okay, but only so long as there's not even a hint of censure, belittlement, scolding or preaching, all under the guise of sharing. Knowing there's no risk ofjudgrnent makes me feel safe."
Looking at the subject from an AA's point of view, a G.S.O. staff member. says, "Comparing notes, many of us realized that nonjudgmental suggestions we had received in meetings in response to something we had shared, was very beneficial to our recovery. It is how we learn, and that's what 'sharing experience, strength and hope' is all about. Also, there is a thin line between guidelines and rules; and experience suggests that in A.A.'s 'benign anarchy,' rules, rigidity and attempts to control don't work very well."
Whether an individual A.A. group chooses to include the crosstalk 'guidelines' in its meeting format is entirely up to its group conscience to determine, of course. But please do not say that such guidelines came from the General Service Office.
Wait a minute!! The reading of How It Works is not a discussion, nor someone sharing from his or her soul about his/her problems/feelings/story, rather a statement of AA's way and revelation. I have seen and heard people do this too, and what I am seeing from this is that they CARE about what How It Works is saying, and wish to HIGHLIGHT "the point" of recovery itself, which is "a.b.c." (I can't, He can, I think I'll let Him...) While they may seem a bit extroverted and annoying, I fail to see what big problems this could present for a meeting or for AA as a whole.
I'm sorry but until Jerry explains further what this is doing that is negative to the primary purpose of the meeting, I just can't see the damage it would cause.
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Only one of the things that upsets me is that it set's precedent. It enables other individual responses and shouts from the gallery while what is important is being read or spoken. "do nothing to interfere between another man and his recovery". That is from a former sponsor who made it very clear to me to sit, listen, learn and not interrupt especially if it would distract another drunk in need and more. Often times the room and what is going on in the room is addressing the life threatening characteristic of our disease. Program saved my life. I extreemly grateful and understanding to my former sponsors caveat. The shout out comes from a place of "me" "self centeredness" and attracts attention to "me" and away from the process of the meeting. I value the miracle of another members recovery to save anyone in the room in "need" and therefore I am concerned. No we are not a "Glum lot" and I am by far a glum person however during the reading of "How it works" I listen with rapt attention and reverence because it surely is "How it works" and I know for me that only one result from how it works is the service that founded that meeting. What also upsets me is when a person will do it knowingly and willingly inspite of evidence after investigation. It could be seen as drinking at a meeting or any other similarity where principles are held in abeyance to personalities and this is about personalities nothing else. This is not AA.
I understand RG's response to "Hear Hear". I have heard that for 31+ years always at the end of the caveat and it is the fellowship response...not the shout out response of a single person or clique.
So if it hasn't happened in the meetings you go to...use your imagination about being at a meeting you go to and at the end of the reading of How it Works...imagine some one in the room shouting out..."And the point is". Visualize it. How do you feel about it...what do you think about it...would it be something you'd do? Why or Why not?
It is an open meeting. I've been kicked out of closed meetings for doing much much less than being disruptive.
Joni when I got into recovery the fellowship gathered around me supported me and nurtured me. They genuinely cared about me and how my recovery matured. They did nothing to disrupt my growth and recovery. They sensed that for me it was a matter of life...or death. They gave me no false impressions about the task and journey ahead of me. They told me to sit down, listen, learn and practice and in turn they didn't shout out to disturb my focus when I was following thru. They were practicing what it was they were teaching me. The degree to which I am upset is to ask for MIP family feedback and experience.
I'm sorry Jerry, I just don't see how this disrupts recovery. I am thinking perhaps the issue is that you see it as "disprespectful"? And if it is ok for a group to do, but not an individual... well, I am scratching my head on that one.
The bottom line is we are a bunch of drunks. Sick, well, too sick to care, too "well" to keep it simple... there are all kinds.
The guy or gal who is doing this probably does not give a crap what other people think. Common in alcoholics. But it sounds like plenty of people are giving a crap about what this person is doing. And what ARE they really doing, Jerry?? Setting a precedent.... well, has anyone, because of this person, started shouting out during shares or leads or discussion? And if they did, is it really this person's fault?
People love and hold my hand proverbially, and hug and nurture and walk me through the steps too, Jerry. I have struggled, it goes without saying. An the shouting out of a cliche' during the reading of How It Works has not poisoned any meeting I've been to, nor set any precedent to do so in discussion or lead time, nor driven anyone else out of the rooms of AA. And I have been going for 15 years now. PLEASE, I implore you, to get to what the real issue is. Somethng about this person's behavior annoys you, and perhaps you feel he or she is "disrespecting AA"? Jerry, I usually am 99% on board with what you post here. But this just is something that has me baffled, knowing the kind of person that you are. Please help me understand why it bothers you!
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Jerry... why did you title this post "looking for an affirmation"? Why would you need to do that if you know in your heart that you are "in the right"? I just don't see you as the kind of person who gets caught up in stuff like this. I'm sorry, but that is what really has me baffled, I guess...... Just speaking my mind as to what I am feeling right now about your focus on this matter..... if I am the one way off kilter here, please explain it ot me. I have an open mind and am absolutely willing to listen.
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
It's up to the secretary to firmly uphold the traditions of the group, and up to the group to firmly back up the secretary, to going over and taking the person outside if necessary
What Traditions?
1.) Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.
The good of the group comes before the good of the individual
period
The best description of Tradition one I have ever heard was written by a friend:
To begin with, I can tell you all I know about The Traditions in about two minutes. I experienced them before I knew about them. A month or so before I go sober I was attending meetings at the local fellowship hall. Sometimes I would be intoxicated and when I am intoxicated I can be a bit, let's say "mouthy." One evening I was at a meeting and was being a bit loud. Two guys got up from their seats and took me aside. They took me downstairs and got me a cup of coffee, One of them said to me "Look, you are welcome at our group, but you have to understand that you are messing it up for everyone else. Please come back to the meeting when you can behave. You don't have to be sober, but you must behave." Then they spent the rest of the meeting sitting downstairs talking with me. In hindsight I realize two things. First, these men gave up their entire meeting to talk with a drunk. That is love of the highest nature. Second, they were practicing Tradition One in which the good of the group comes before the good of any individual.
2.) For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority-a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
By electing a secretary as a trusted servant, we invest in them the responsibility and the power to uphold the traditions, such as no crosstalk, and Tradition One, and we have the responsibility to elect secretaries with a good working knowledge of The Traditions and the force of will necessary to carry them out, and to help them do so.
I have seen this scenario with both a weak and a strong secretary, and the secretary that cuts right across the bullshit and informs the person such behavior is not tolerated as per the group conscience gets an immediate response and respect, the one that doesn't allows the problem to continue and get worse.
We elect those of us to be trusted servants exactly to run the meeting, not just unlock the door on time and hand out stuff to read, this is what it means to be a secretary in AA, is to have a good working knowledge of the traditions and the cajones to carry them out.
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I have one thing to say, and then I need to detach and read my book and come back in the morning to get a better understanding I guess........
so I will close tonight with:
How F%$^ING IMPORTANT IS IT????
You know, if this is what happens to people who become "long timers", then perhaps I'd rather stay "new" and fresh. Yah, Traditions... VITALLY important.... but it seems to me that when SOME alcoholics with some time get simply "annoyed" by individuals who are perhaps of a little different personality type, that they start throwing the traditions around and trying to use them to control how other people act. The Traditions get twisted around to the point where now no one is allowed to do the "sing-along" thing with How It Works, showing their vigor for the MESSAGE of How It Works, because some fuddy-duddies have nothing better to do than pick people apart. THIS is what bothers me, not the Traditions themselves, it's how people fail to keep the TRADITIONS SIMPLE, as well as the program. K.I.S.S. is not just for everyday life or for the Steps, it is for everything- traditions included. There are more politics being practiced among some long timers than there are people to sponsor new people who wander in, and yes, new or old, spout out stuff that annoys some.... but what's the point? If it is not disruptive to the newcomer's chances of gaining a glimpse of what a Higher power can do in one's life, then How Important Is It? The above mentioned situation in now way hampers the ability fo the group to function, from what has been reported. It just annoys people. Oh well. People who are extroverted annoy people. People who are self-righteous annoy people. People who bounce in and out annoy people. People who whine a lot annoy people. People annoy people, and if we work our prorgam, then we don't have time for petty nit-picking, because like I said, there are more new people out there who need real help, than there are issues that are truly "VITAL" to the survival of AA being discussed. A lot of what is discussed inder the guise of "Traditions" is relaly just people trying to control others, bottom line.
-- Edited by jonijoni1 on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 10:56:23 AM
__________________
~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
he asked a question, he has a problem, it's his problem, we all know that, even him
I just posted what I have learned the solution is for the meetings I have gone to
electing secretaries with a good working knowledge of the traditions and the intestinal fortitude required to carry out that responsibility, if they are still learning as members of the group we help, I have years of experience in doing that, it is a process, but one that needs to be an informed one.
If the guy has teretts syndrome and has to scream out, whatevers, if I am the secretary, it's my job to shut that shit down pronto, if I am not secretary, it's none of my business, if it's my home group it's my job to elect a secretary with a good grounding in the traditions and to offer my 100% total support in helping that secretary uphold those traditions, if that means me and another large man quietly walking over and removing someone who is disrupting the meeting and sitting outside with them, I have done that before, and I will do that again.
The group comes first, followed closely by the individual
You ask "how important is it?"
for some it's life and death to keep AA meetings AA meetings, not a zoo, it's up to our trusted servants to enforce that.
This is AA not romper room
period
It's the secretaries job to stay at the helm of a meeting and to manage that meeting, to guide it back on track if necessary, it's part of what they teach us at that ultra secret "service people school" they send us to in AA boot camps. (lolol I am totally teasing)
edit, found this in a new secretary pamphlet for the west coast
A SPECIAL NOTE TO GROUP SECRETARIES
The Group Secretary is responsible for maintaining orderly conduct of the meeting. Should a disturbance arise during the meeting, the secretary should stand and perhaps say something like this: "Pardon me, but I think we should continue with the general discussion. Perhaps we can discuss this after the meeting. "A good secretary should never interrupt the discussion to interject his or her own thoughts. He/she seldom participates in the discussion unless the group is small and time is plentiful.
seriously, there is nothing to even discuss ya know, this is a no brainer, it's the secretaries job to maintain order in a meeting. The only people responsible for enabling this behavior are the secretaries and the groups themselves, not the person's spouse, this is why a thorough understanding and grounding of the Traditions is important, there is no group conscience needed for the secretary to enforce the group conscience unless cross talk and disruptions are specifically allowed in the meeting by the group conscience, which quite frankly, there is a group near here that specifically allows cross talk and shouting at the secretary and chair person at the meeting. It's a popular group, and has some strong sobriety but not one I chose to remain a member of for that reason.
/shrug
-- Edited by AGO on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 12:37:04 AM
__________________
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I saw the "what's the point" "shout out" take off about 15 to 20 years ago at some meetings in my area. In general, those same meetings had other types of disruptive/distracting activity going on (people talking to each other in the meeting while the meeting was going on, people walking back and forth constantly to the coffee pot during the meeting, etc.). At my current home group and other meetings I now regularly attend (and prefer), we have added (per a group conscience) a part during the introductory phase of the meeting requesting that people do not "join in" or participate with the reader during the readings. These meetings are generally quieter, and as I've gotten older, I prefer that. (the more "lively" meetings seemed to bother me much less in my twenties; I guess I'm becoming an old fogey).
So, from my experience, I've seen the "shout outs" during readings, etc, become a slippery slope that increases the overall noise in the meeting and can distract and annoy people who want to hear what is being read and shared. But, I don't think it's technically "cross talk" as we define it.
Perhaps you might talk to the secretary as to whether a group conscience might be taken to include something in the format discouraging people from participating with the readers in the readings?
Hey Jerry, I hear ya. And Im sorry this is happening at the meeting. It is very sad, but yet very true and happens at meetings. Far as Im concerned ... whoever the perps are, are simply showing disrespect to the meeting as well as AA as a whole.
This type of behavior rarely if ever happens at my home group which is a BB meeting and we have an opening statement which asks members to not crosstalk nor interrupt.
I have been at meetings tho where ranting, shouting, disruption and crosstalk is the norm. I just ignore the ppl that are acting so childish and remember that there really are some ppl in the meetings that I dont want anything they have. And that there are gonna be ppl in my life that I will run into who teach me how I dont want to live/be.
My sponsor ( who got sober in Cleveland, Ohio ) was visiting me once and we went to a meeting together where when the promises were read many shouted together " We think not" and some even said " hell no ". After the meeting my sponsor was appalled, said she had never heard that before.
Sometimes if I remember I pray for the ppl who are 'acting out'. It only simply shows that they are insecure somewhere or someway in their own lives.
I truly apologize for my own "shouting" as I did on this thread. I feel very strongly about what I consider "nit-picking" though. I just think as people who are trying to get sober, stay sober, help others to get sober, that no matter who is doing the "What's the Point!?" shout-out, if it doesn't distract or detract or drown out the meeting as a whole or someone's sharing, it is for us to exercise patience, love, and tolerance. Regardless of whether the person doing the solitary half-second-long shout-out is a member of AA or not, we are told to practice patience, love and tolerance. And in my opinion, this is another simple area to exercise that. It's a situation for those of us who have been here awhile to practice the principles, regardless of how annoying the offender is. And that we should not devote any more time on our resentment of or disdain at that behavior itself, than it took for the person to exercise the behavior. A half second of shout-out.
Yes, I over reacted. I probably over react a lot to situations where I believe others are over reacting... it is infectious.
I am tired. Due to my own experiences with what I, in my opinion only, perceive as being nit-picked, I do have a resentment against nit-pickers in general which I need to work on and give to God. And I perhaps draw on my own life experiences in a codependent relationship with an Al Anon who nit-picks (my aunt/mom), and want to "save people" from such petty things. But my job is to learn acceptance (in this case of the OT who is upset at the half-second shout-outer), and to carry the message and not to stifle the messenger who carries a different message than the one I like.
I love meetings. I like meetings where sobriety is the sole focus of the meeting. I don't like meetings where in my opinion only, some other issue becomes the focus. I like meetings where such things as a half second shout-out are overlooked, accepted, tolerated, and in turn, the person doing it is accepted, tolerated. Again, it is only my opinion, and I am entiteld to it.
Something may have triggered the heat of my response (although the underlying theme of my response is still valid to me, none the less).
What triggered it may have been this:
I spoke in another post how a friend of mine of 16 years sober was at a meeting I have never seen her at. She was crying and sitting in the back. We came to my apartment as she could not "hold it together" at the meeting. She told me about a former coworker whom she had conducted an intervention for, had gotten to go to treatment, etc... and he was found dead due to alcohol poisoning Sunday afternoon right before the meeting.
In our lengthy conversation that evening which covered a great deal of "catching up", she told me that she remembered when I first came in (in my mid-20's, very immature and lost), and we talked about the experience I had and she witnessed, where I was yelled at and snapped at for cross talking during the meeting. It was my first every women's meeting, my first discussion meeting, and I had no idea of the ground rules. The person yelling (yes, LOUD) at me was cruel instead of kind and I left the room in tears. All of a sudden, in my sick dramatic mind, I was INDEED totally alone in the world, as I had suspected all along.
My friend told me that in the coming years it was said by more than one person in AA with substantial time sober, "she's never going to make it. She's gonna die out there." My friend, whom I did not even know at the time, whinced, and then pondered, and shook her head saying, "You know, I wouldn't say that.... I think she might be a fighter..." She went on to say that she never felt she had any business making an assumption about someone else's survival capabilities, nor did she feel that "time" meant a damn thing at all in AA, repeating the old adage that "we all only have today." She followed as well with the remark that many people with long term sobriety can act as sick or sicker than the newcomer who is focused on sobriety with every ounce of their being, and not focused on assessing on other people. SOME old-timers, but not all, need to get back to basics.
It is common knowledge to me that I was obnoxious in my early AA days. I was very pretty, young, extroverted, and so sociable and flirtatious that it was nauseating to many if not most. I had the maturity of about a 16 year old. I bounced in and out never able to put together more than 60 days. I became super-invoved at one point, making coffee, tagging along with my young but sober and mature sponsor 24/7 at the time, but I could not stay sober for any amount of time. People would see me getting my act together for a month or so, only to see me 2 weeks later after "disappearing", 20 lbs lighter after only 2 weeks, and my hair falling out from the incomprehensible amount of drugs and alcohol I had done in those 2 weeks.
But here I am. A lot of therapy, a lot of treatment, a lot of meetings later, a lot of AA. And instead of 60 days and back out, I have been, for the past decade, 2-3 years, and then back out for shorter and shorter slips from reality. I am 38 now. Albeit I have struggled at times, AA has given me a wonderful decade now of hope and success and growth. I am no longer extroverted and immature at meetings. I am older now. I don't hear about people making assessments as to whether or not I will survive this disease. I have ceased to be a separate topic of discussion so far as I know, and I am glad. It is through kindness and acceptance of my quirks and faults and character defects that I have kept coming back. That no one "cracked a whip" at me after that first horrible experience with being scolded in a public way has kept me coming back. That I was never embarrassed or shamed at a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous since, even in my everpresent younger annoying days, this acceptance of me has kept me coming back where I have been able to "grow up".
So yah, it touches a big fat raw nerve. I guess we all have another "job" to do in AA, once the program starts to work for us. For some, it is to pour over the "specifics" and to run stuff. For others it is to actively sponsor several people at a time and somehow be availabel for them all and make it work (my sponsor). For still others, it is chairs and coffee and mopping up and cleaning up and washing out coffee urns for decades. For me it is kindness. Not that no one else is kind in these other tasks. Not at all! But my "job" seems to be to help someone who is uncomfortable with themself to, at the very least, become comfortable with at least one other person in AA.
While I would probably never go as far with this person being spoke of (the half second shouter-outer) as to rag on the OT who would reprimand or shun the beahvior of this person, I would in fact purse my lips, shake my head, and say, "Ahh, don't worry about it... our job is to find out how to stay sober today and just ignore that other stuff." (Much like my friend did when others were discussing my behavior and my chances at survival as a result.) Because AA did indeed survive in here Akron Ohio despite my obnoxious behavior and my annoying personality, by obsession with self, and my often "loud" immaturity. How Important Is It? To AA meetings themselves, and to AA as a whole, it wasn't.
So again, apologies. While AA doesn't state it's my job to do that, to "defend" so to speak, it is what I feel strongly about, and I think it is clear why.
Now... off to get rid of that resentment, or at the very least, give it to HP for the day....
-- Edited by jonijoni1 on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 10:54:58 AM
__________________
~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Some of that kind of thing has crept in here, in certain meetings. One that is particularly annoying is shouting out "A" "B" and "C"! at the end of How It Works. I just refuse to participate.
As to actual cross talk, which to me is when you interrupt someone speaking (even if it's just to say "amen") I find it really annoying whether the person being interrupted is me, or anyone else. The no-crosstalk format of meetings allowed me to speak without being cut off or challenged, following a more orderly protocol than the parlaimentary shouting down you hear in other venues.
I find it annoying when this is done during the readings and I just refuse to join in - or if I'm the one reading, I don't pause for people to jump in, I just keep going. But cross talk in a discussion meeting I really discourage. Hey, sometimes somebody says something really funny and everybody laughs - whether it's a speaker meeting or a discussion, that is expected and accepted. But when it comes to interjections, I don't really even like the little one-liner comments, but when someone cross-talks a speaker directly - like asking a question - that's where I will put the gavel down if I'm the one running the meeting.
The other thing I don't do is pass around announcements, or permit long-winded business announcements or GSR reports. That's for group conscience meetings, not a regular meeting where people are coming to stay sober, not hear about funding for the dance next Friday. When I have paper announcements, I will mention them and that you can see them after the meeting, I will not pass them during the meeting. And if I'm in a meeting and a sheaf of papers is being passed, I hand them off without looking. I'm there to pay attention to the meeting.
I've also found that this kind of thing is MUCH more common in Alanon than in AA. I have several theories about this. One is Venus/Mars, and AA being typically more male and Alanon being more female. But AA people usually love to talk about themselves, BS or honest. There are rarely long moments of silence in AA discussions. Many meetings end with frustration that you didn't get to talk, because too many people were ahead of you or somebody went on too long. In Alanon, I've double-dipped sometimes late in a meeting after a period of pin-drop silence. If I did that in an AA meeting, there would be guffaws at double dipping. If I do it in Alanon, there's almost a sigh of relief from the others in the room that they won't be called upon, I just took the heat away. As a talkative AA-er, I could easily wind up dominating the floor in an Alanon meeting... and the funny part is, many of them would think it's ok. I really have to try hard NOT to do this, especially when it's sometimes even encouraged.
I've been to Alanon meetings where business and protocol ate up more than half of the discussion time, or the chairperson rambled on for 25 minutes introducing the topic. When I end up chairing an Alanon meeting, I run it a lot more like an AA meeting - I do the intros and readings as per the group's normal procedure but when it comes to announcements and business I emphasize BRIEF, and try to get to the meat of the meeting almost as quickly as an AA meeting would.
Some of these things are just group practice and protocol. We've all been to meetings which were a bit "different". Maybe even a bit cultish. Some of these things can be harmless and just a catchy novelty to differentiate a group, but sometimes they can be downright oppressive. Someone mentioned the three minute timer meetings. Interesting idea - I'm not against it, but if I really felt like I had to get something off my chest, I probably wouldn't be going to the Egg Timer Group that night. There are also some strange personality-worship meetings popping up... those that study only the writings of Bill W, or those that revere sponsorship the way the Japanese revere their ancestors. Not my cup of tea... but seems like when the media decides to do a story on AA, they manage to find one of these wacky meetings to "showcase".
Lastly if you object to talking over the readings, don't go to Late Night Hollywood. You can't even tell when they're doing the readings - the before-meeting hubbub just keeps going all the way through. Yet, once the preliminaries are finished the meeting comes to order and it's a real AA discussion meeting. Not something I'd want for a home group, but an interesting experience none the less.
Barisax
-- Edited by barisax on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 11:28:55 AM
I appreciate all of the responses and feedback from you fellows and femmes in recovery. They were both affirming and enlightening and redirected me toward a solution to keeping this home meeting what it was when it was started and why.
Some of you said it better than others and I put it all together and got solutions.
Could barely make it through with all the bantering, I only wanted to say, you have my affirmation and complete support in what you were asking for.
I see the "How it Work" as almost a sacred reading, and if some jerk was interferrring with my soaking that in....well I would have a similiar reaction....
Love and Mahalo Nui to you too, my sweetest of friends.
Similiar Situation and How My Homegroup Solved It....
There is a guy, nice guy, great share, 10yrs+, etc. who changed jobs and started going to The Nooner. During The Traditions after "our public relations policy is based on attraction" he wolf-whistled.
The meeting chair shot him dead on the spot.
Nah...just kidding. It was explained to him afterwards that a newcomer may think that it's okay in AA to be a 'class clown' and that while a sense of humor is certainly welcome...it would be nice if he waited until he knew the group better; whos' a daily, who's a weekly, who's a once-in-a-while, etc. before poking fun at any AA rituals.
He was cool with that and still shows up, although he says we're kinda stiff, but every other group in our area says we're kinda stiff. Oh well. They're my HomeGroup and I love them.
I can't beleive you can't control your group better (LOL)!!
This is way to much BS for me. All you need to do is "scratch out" and not read "the point is".
Just start the sentence with, "We where willing to grow all spirtual lines", a small sacrifice for the good of the whole.
In GA, people yell out "hell no" after "are these extravagant promises?"
In some younger groups people start "balking like chickens" after they read "at some of these we balked".
None of this stuff ever happend in NE Ohio. People think that celebrating chips, birthdays and clapping and chest pounding is a normal part of AA meetings, it's not.
It's by the grace of God, the program and people of AA that we are sober, humility and gratitude is hard to find at some of these groups.
__________________
Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I have to agree with Jerry on this one. For me, this is a deadly serious thing, and I feel like I owe my life to AA. I'm not about to disrespect the program that saved my life. There are a few meetings close by me that not only do this, but every time some one introduces them selves as an alcoholic, the same people shout out "yes you are". That's disrespectful and just plain rude. This was one of the first meetings I attended when I was trying to get sober, and I remember thinking to myself "this is more like a kindergarten room than a place to get help". I decided at one point that if I was going to end up like these people, then I don't want it. I don't attend AA meetings to listen to a couple jokers make asses out of themselves, and I never will. I chair my home group meeting on Friday nights, and I make it a point to make sure that everyone knows there will be no cross talk. It's not about a power trip or anything like that, it's following our traditions and being respectful of others who may be seriously suffering and need help and support. I've been sober for a little over 13 months now, and not even close to being an "old timer", but I was taught respect for the program that saved my life, and I will do my part to uphold the traditions to make sure that AA will continue to help others who are SERIOUS about it.
So my personal experience...it turned me off from meetings when I first experienced it, and IMHO that's damage being done.
I have to agree with Jerry on this one. For me, this is a deadly serious thing, and I feel like I owe my life to AA. I'm not about to disrespect the program that saved my life. There are a few meetings close by me that not only do this, but every time some one introduces them selves as an alcoholic, the same people shout out "yes you are". That's disrespectful and just plain rude. This was one of the first meetings I attended when I was trying to get sober, and I remember thinking to myself "this is more like a kindergarten room than a place to get help". I decided at one point that if I was going to end up like these people, then I don't want it. I don't attend AA meetings to listen to a couple jokers make asses out of themselves, and I never will. I chair my home group meeting on Friday nights, and I make it a point to make sure that everyone knows there will be no cross talk. It's not about a power trip or anything like that, it's following our traditions and being respectful of others who may be seriously suffering and need help and support. I've been sober for a little over 13 months now, and not even close to being an "old timer", but I was taught respect for the program that saved my life, and I will do my part to uphold the traditions to make sure that AA will continue to help others who are SERIOUS about it.
So my personal experience...it turned me off from meetings when I first experienced it, and IMHO that's damage being done.
Brian
Very nice share, Thank You very much
__________________
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
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