Many are worried that the message has changed from "do the steps" to "don't drink and go to meetings" and "keep coming back"

There are many people in AA today that actually think "The Program" IS meeting attendance, which actually has nothing to do with "The Program" which is contained in the book and the steps, our fellowship and meetings are named after that program,  but there is widespread ignorance that the meetings and fellowship IS The Program and that attending enough meetings is considered "working a good program".

There is no spiritual awakening nor "recovered" nor quite frankly "working a program" in meeting attendance unless it is the 12th step, and if one hasn't reached the 12th step, how can one work step 12 in a meeting?

Why do the work when you can just go to a meeting?

some people really do get something from "just going to meetings".

The group who stopped in time before crossing the line of alcohol-ism (i.e. they just had alcohol-issues) and just attend meetings, no steps needed, just use meetings as group therapy

Then there the "two steppers"

Admit they were powerless over alcohol then carry the message

The three steppers, same as the 2 steppers but they jump also right to the 13th step

The Aa Waltzers 123 slip 123 slip

Then the group who use the meetings to do some step work;

They admit they are powerless over alcohol(step 1)
They confess the exact nature of their wrongs in war stories and drunk-a-logs (step 5)
They try to help new-comers (step 12) and tell them "don't drink and go to meetings" and offer up their phone number when feeling really moved to do 12th step work

and then there is a third group (like me) who need more than meetings and they are the ones who are beyond human aid (as well as beyond fellowship aid) that needed to do all 12 steps including sponsoring others

Meetings are where we carrry the message, where we do 12th step work but so many people haven't even reached step 12 and read chapter Seven they think 12th step work is giving a newcomer their phone number and telling them to keep coming back, and since they haven't done thorough step work themselves they just say "you're in the right place" without even knowing what alcoholism is or what the solution is.

Many don't understand that a real alcoholics true problem isn't drinking but an inability to fit in with the world around him without alcohol, that a real alcoholics true problem is not drinking, that drinking is but a symptom, and concentrate on not drinking via "don't drink and go to meetings" rather then address an alcoholics true malady, which is symptoms based on when they aren't drinking, which insure such a horrible and painful existence that a return to alcohol is inevitable:

When most people think about alcoholism or drug addiction they think only of the alcohol/drug-based symptoms and forget about the sobriety-based symptoms. Yet it is the sobriety-based symptoms, especially post acute withdrawal, that make sobriety so difficult. The presence of brain dysfunction has been documented in 75-95% of the recovering alcoholics/addicts tested. Recent research indicates that the symptoms of post-acute withdrawal associated with alcohol/drug-related damage to the brain may contribute to many cases of relapse.

So abstinence is actually the leading cause of "relapse"

We see that here on this board, people able to stay sober on Fellowship alone telling real alcoholics to "don't drink and go to meetings" with absolutely no understanding that the real alcoholic is unable to stay sober on willpower alone or on the basis of self knowledge, that a spiritual experience is needed or the happy day of contented sobriety will never come for the real alcoholic, then the real alcoholic is considered to be constitionally incapable of being honest with himself when the tragic truth is the real alcoholic was never told what the truth was to begin with, which is without a "spiritual awakening", or "a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism" they have little to no chance. That if they suffer from true alcoholism they suffer from a malady that only a spiritual experience is sufficient to bring about recovery no matter how many meetings they attend. That sticking a feather up their ass doesn't in fact make one a chicken and the program doesn't work by osmosis from meeting attendance, that the neccessary and vital spiritual experience only comes as a result of putting pen to paper, confession, restitution, and carrying the message to others, that actual work is required not just meeting attendance.

Don't drink and go to meetings and don't drink no matter what is exactly the opposite of what we learn a real alcoholic is capable of if his alcoholism is left untreated, so we end up with very confused and sick alcoholics that can't understand why they can't seem to get sober.

The tragic truth is that if the man be a real alcoholic, the happy day may not arrive. He has lost control. At a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. This tragic situation has already arrived in practically every case long before it is suspected.

The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.

You can't pass on what you don't have, so I don't blame the people who weren't taught by oldtimers, or who didn't need the steps themselves, thus weren't taken through the steps, all they are doing is parroting what they hear in meetings at other meetings without the substance of the spiritual awakening brought about by working the steps.

There is little effort to learn the difference between the moderate drinker, the hard drinker and the alcoholic, everyone is given a hug and told they are in the right place and keep coming back, but what happens is the moderate drinker and the hard drinker get sober on fellowship alone and that is the message they try and pass on to the real alcoholic, which quite frankly doesn't work for the real alcoholic

Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.

Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.

Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit* badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.

(The Habit = be addicted to, yet he is not an alcoholic)

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.

We know that while the alcoholic keeps away from drink, as he may do for months or years, he reacts much like other men. We are equally positive that once he takes any alcohol whatever into his system, something happens, both in the bodily and mental sense, which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop. The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly confirm this.

So if these things aren't taught who is to blame? The Newcomers who who become old timers without ever knowing any better, without ever working the steps, or studying the Traditions? Without ever knowing the difference between a hard drinker and an alcoholic?

Or us

If this person isn't there to pass on the message who will?

the ex-problem drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished.


-- Edited by AGO on Saturday 8th of May 2010 11:58:41 AM

Yes thanks Ago my readings for this morning, May 8th, talk about being okay with not knowing all the answers,because then I am teachable and remain learning life sucessfully!As long as I remain teachable I can take advantage of experience from others...Yes another true gift from God! Listening was never a great character asset of mine,today I am teachable.......Have a blessed and productive day

Larry_H wrote:

---

I need to keep coming back and do the step work.

Unless I keep coming back I don't see the success which gives hope that
If the steps work for you them they just might work for me.

I need both

Larry,
------------------
I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go.  ~Abraham Lincoln

---

Absolutely

Faith without works is dead

Works without Faith is dead

Step 12 doesn't work without the first 11

The first 11 don't stay vital and active without 12, which often takes place in meetings, and keeps us reminded of the first 11 and thus keeps them vital and active and fresh

Some -recovered- alcoholics can be happy joyous and free without meetings, thus far I am not one of them. Some recovered alcoholics only go to meetings to work step 12, and are placed in (working in rehabs) that they don't need meetings for that, but choose to of their own violition, freely recieved, freely given is their motto, they are not doing it to stay sober, but in order to give back. I know many that fall in that category, that either don't attend meetings at all or just go to give what was so freely given them, not to stay sober.

I have friends that fall in those categories, as of this writing I am not one of them.

I have a daily reprieve contingent on my spiritual condition

 

janet wrote:

---

Thank you very much for such a thought provoking post. 

Although I am positive, that I am an alcoholic; I could not,nor did not stay sober (while working the program) but for more than 2 yrs. and a few months.

To me, life is not natural without alcohol. I have drank most of my life w/somewhat brief  
episodes of sobriety. It is a tough thing to re-learn or rather learn how to live life,when for too many yrs. one/I'd lived a different lifestyle.

Your comments about PAWS abbrv. Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome or whatever (I prefer PAWS for it's easier to remember,lol...seriously though.) I had not heard the term PAWS, until today on this website.

It is because of reading about PAWS, that I am beginning to understand,why I always seemed to relapse, after having been sober for usually a few months beyond two yrs.
(I had often thought, that I must find some reason for my relapses,or I could never get over this thing called alcoholism) i.e.
I became stuck in the program, and it is usually when things start to look up, that some major life stressor comes along,that I think I cannot handle,or that depression and confusion,boredom,and "The What Nows" had set in and I knew nothing else to do but sedate myself. No words,reading,prayer,and I Mean Nothing could get me out of this horrible state of mind (so I thought/think,) so I'd
do what seemed more natural to me and that was to drink.

Thanks for your post and for listening.

---

Thanks janet, that was my story as well.  I floundered for 2 years and just couldn't seem to funtion unless I was drinking.  I couldn't get past 2 months without falling off some kind of cliff just like you wrote.  I'm kind of going through it again with quitting coffee and diet coke, january 14th.  Now I'm down to one or two days a week that I feel like "I just can't face the day" or get motivated without some coffee, but somehow I'm am making it. 

 

janet wrote:

---

Thank you very much for such a thought provoking post. 

Although I am positive, that I am an alcoholic; I could not,nor did not stay sober (while working the program) but for more than 2 yrs. and a few months.

To me, life is not natural without alcohol. I have drank most of my life w/somewhat brief  
episodes of sobriety. It is a tough thing to re-learn or rather learn how to live life,when for too many yrs. one/I'd lived a different lifestyle.

Your comments about PAWS abbrv. Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome or whatever (I prefer PAWS for it's easier to remember,lol...seriously though.) I had not heard the term PAWS, until today on this website.

It is because of reading about PAWS, that I am beginning to understand,why I always seemed to relapse, after having been sober for usually a few months beyond two yrs.
(I had often thought, that I must find some reason for my relapses,or I could never get over this thing called alcoholism) i.e.
I became stuck in the program, and it is usually when things start to look up, that some major life stressor comes along,that I think I cannot handle,or that depression and confusion,boredom,and "The What Nows" had set in and I knew nothing else to do but sedate myself. No words,reading,prayer,and I Mean Nothing could get me out of this horrible state of mind (so I thought/think,) so I'd
do what seemed more natural to me and that was to drink.

Thanks for your post and for listening.

---

Thank You for your Post

Did You Google Paws as well? (you have to google the whole phrase)

There are ways to combat it (PAWS/alcoholism/sobreity based symptoms) and address it, but it does take work, thank you for a incredibly clear and insightful description of alcoholism's sobriety based symptoms from your experience, I'm very glad you found out about PAWS and am interested in hearing more, keep coming back and posting

 

SteveP wrote:

---

yep, thanks Janet. Can totally relate. In the end alcohol became not part of my life, but my life. For example, I loved to travel. But looking back, I can see that really it was traveling for the sake of alcohol: what "great" new bars can I pissed in, what new booze can I try, who strange new local "friends" will I make. Even travel was never about travel, it was about booze.

Then, going dry for a bit, things would seem OK or things would blow up. With the former, it would be "I'm OK now, what was that all about". Start drinking again. With the latter, it would be "look, sobriety and God didn't prevent all those bad things from happening, so what's the point. Either you're never going get that serenity that others in the rooms have, they're just lying about it, or they're crazy." Cue anger, resentment, pride, self-pity. Drink.

I'm trying now to work my program as best I can so that doesn't happen, but it's a real risk, all right.

Steve

---

So,so true,Steve. I can't go anywhere,such as vacation,or short trips (even after being sober for a time) without thinking of the new drinks and the one's with the little umbrella's in them,or scewers with cherries and lime. Also, sometimes succeeding at doing a task that requires a trip makes me think of reward time,lol. It's terrible.
Then there are the memories. Those horrible flashbacks of shame,guilt,fear about something I did in the past that pop up unexpectedly...like a certain smell,or song will sometimes do.
What we are dealing with here I think is learning how to live. It seems so odd to me...just as I imagine to those who do not or moderately drink must seem it to be odd of us/me.

Clear as mud? Sorry for the ramble. My nerves are shot. I am sober though,rather not drinking that is. Still crazy after all these years.